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When you are ready for the full ASP prep we believe there are four MUST HAVES for the FD.
1. Tires/Wheels.........Hoosiers with the widest / smallest diameter wheel combination available.
2. Shocks..................Koni doubles or better.
3. Alignment .............Lots of camber, Hoosiers love camber.
4. Sway bar...............Big front bar.
With the ASP rule set most anything else will provide incremental improvement at best.
Jim & Carter T
SSM '93 Hardtop
It would be crazy to have 400ftlbs on tap on the low end of the rpm range like a V8. Traction would become a real issue with that kind of torque on tap. I would be very interested in seeing this successfully implemented in an autox car.
On my EFR 7670 FC that would only fit little 255/40-17 I actually found the very fast responding turbo with 420ft/lbs torque and 420rwhp was easier to drive than the previous more laggy 300ftlb, 380rwhp T04B 60-1.
Reason is the torque hits right as you are pressing the gas pedal so you know what you are getting and also when the wheel starts to spin and engine RPMs go up to where you have less torque the car basically hooks itself back into traction. If you let off the gas the boost/torque comes right back too, so you aren't afraid to let off the gas like in a laggy car.
With the laggier set-up you floor the car on low RPM and have to let off fast as you hear the wastegate just start to crack or its crazy town as the boost comes in. Learning just how much to backpedal and stay in enough boost is the really tricky part and you spend a lot of time not backing off, just flicking the steering wheel a bit preemptive opposite lock and riding out the wheelspin.
Here is a dyno of my EFR 7670 TII which was easy to drive-. I think the serial compound twin at low rpm switching to parallel twin could do a bit better, especially on E85 instead of gas.
Cool build. Do you have some more info on the bulbs you used for the depo lights. I have the same ones and have been contemplating something similar for ages.
gracer7-rx7
Cool build. Do you have some more info on the bulbs you used for the depo lights. I have the same ones and have been contemplating something similar for ages.
Thanks!
Yes, I used Morimoto XB 2.0 for the 921/T15 (the inside bulb on the 1993-1998 combo lights).
I used Profile Peak 7443 Switchback a 7443 bulb socket I bought and cut the original bulb socket to receive the smaller 7443 socket (for the outside bulbs on the 1993-1998 combo lights). Might be easier to use a standard 3 wire bayonet bulb socket to replace the stock 2 wire bayonet bulb socket? I don't know, I misordered the 7443 bulbs to start with and then stuck with them.
I'm currently in the process of building my FD to be nationally competitive in ASP.
tomsn16
When you are ready for the full ASP prep we believe there are four MUST HAVES for the FD.
1. Tires/Wheels.........Hoosiers with the widest / smallest diameter wheel combination available.
2. Shocks..................Koni doubles or better.
3. Alignment .............Lots of camber, Hoosiers love camber.
4. Sway bar...............Big front bar.
With the ASP rule set most anything else will provide incremental improvement at best.
Jim & Carter T
^^^
Completely this. You will want at minimum the above chassis set-up that you can copy from past ASP competitors.
Luckily most the bad asses with FDs in SSM like the Thompson's machine posted above started back in ASP and can give you the tips on the chassis set-up. You just have to decide if narrow stock body car with 15x11 or 18x11 or 18x 12 and 295s or 305s most or add on flare fenders and a wider track width with the full 18x 12 or 18x13 and 315s up front and 335s rear (can't cut front headlight bucket in ASP for the taller 335s up front).
I think the very open rules on exhaust/turbo manifold and turbo/boost control in ASP and the use of E85 are about the only areas left unexplored to date.
j9fd3s
nice car! i remember seeing your T2 a million years ago, and its still amazing, this Fd is good too
Thanks! I was thinking of that lately as Seven Stock was approaching.
Sadly the T2 is no more- I parted it out. Luckily someone bought the shell and put subframes and drivetrain back in, so its still a car and not recycled.
What tire size would you recommend for the 15x11 and what wheels do most people get for this setup?
Wondering the wide 15s would do a track car vs autox car.
There is only one tire that I know of for the 15x11 wheels which is the Hoosier A7/R7 275/35-18 or the 295/35-15 size (both 23" tall).
But if you auto-x competitively the Hoosier A7 is pretty much the only tire that matters anyways.
Someone on the forum used steel 15x10 Diamond racing wheels on their FD for ASP. Hamfist Racing affiliate?
Forgestar released "drag pack" wheel sizing so you can get 15x11 5x114 and whatever offset will work from them- so you can get wheels like mine in this thread in that size. IDK if it will clear stock calipers, but you can change those in ASP anyways.
Most people use the 15x11 and 295/30-15 on Miatas and Hondas so the common 15x11 wheels are 4x100 bolt pattern.
For the track you have thermal management (besides just warming up fast like autox) to worry about. Might just want the larger surface area of the 18" wheel and 25" diameter tire to help keep the tires cool.
You can just change gearing by putting in the RX-8 4.77 rear end and then you can also use big brake rotors for more thermal management for the brakes as well.
Going to do a little backstory now on the car now that I have showed off its current state.
I am the third owner and each owner has raced it in SCCA Solo events. I purchased it with 39,000 miles.
I know it was being raced at least by 1997 as there were notes from Mazda on the service/warranty paperwork about the straight pipe exhaust welded onto the stock catalytic flange (for Stock class).
Last season I raced my FD before this season was 2013.
Mods were-
SCCA ASP CLASS 1993 MAZDA RX-7 R1
Exhaust-
3" downpipe, 3" SMB midpipe with resonator and highflow cat, 3" Magnaflow Ti exhaust
Intake-
small stock mount intercooler using stock duct, efini y pipe, mbcs @10psi boost (stock ECU)
Footwork-
ohlins coilovers, Poly bushings, 18X11 with 295/30-18 Hankook Ventus TD Z221, Wilwood 6 pot brakes with 14" rotors
Interior-
bride seats, takata harnesses
It was making maybe ~250rwhp with the limited mods and drove like a big Miata with all the grip.
Made some records at the local hillclimb and kart track 5 lap sprint that I like to attend that have stood up so far (no real nationals ASP Evos have showed up to beat them basically).
You can hear in this hillclimb video I had a broken Power Plant Frame where it bolts to the front of the differential
2012 was my first season racing in ASP.
I had previously raced in Stock class and was sick of the wonky stock boost control and having to carry/change my wheels/tires to race.
Mods were same as 2013 except I had the 18x10.5 wheels with 265/35-18 Federal 595RS-R street tires (bought while waiting on my Forgestar 18x11 order).
2010 I raced in Stock Class. I think that was the first year the FD was in A stock class down from Super Stock Class.
We have all seen stock FDss, but this is mine
Great thread, thanks for posting. How is the 'crankcase' ventilation with your catch can setup, do you get much oil in the intake pipes? Where are the vent lines connected on the engine?
I have had the intercooler and charge pipe off the Y pipe off and so far no oil residue in the intake.
It gets a LOT of water in the catch can with a couple drops of oil floating around in the water.
My previous engines on my TII which was vented the same way, but with no baffles and the catch can in a hotter place in the engine bay did not collect water like this set-up does.
I think it collects so much water because the catch can is in a relatively cool spot in the engine bay so the steam in the blowby condenses into the catch can.
I took the hoses that lead to the catch can off both the nipples on the oil filler neck.
So far it hasn't sloshed oil into the catch can even with the hard transitions of kart track and auto-x, but I imagine if I did tracking with sustained high Gs in a sweeper it would slosh oil up.
Or maybe not? Maybe the trap door Winchester Metals oil pan really helps?
I hooked up my new Ballenger wideband (continuation of the old NTK wideband) to make sure my ROM tuned ECU was giving me good AFRs.
Ambient temperature was cool out and all was fine till I tried full load pulls in 4th gear. AFRs were fine, but hitting max injector duty cycle by 6,000rpm because with the 4" exhaust it is boost creeping over the 17psi I had in the warm day time.
I know what max injector duty cycle feels and looks like from tuning my old FC. Hesitation and fireball through any small exhaust leak (turbo to downpipe, midpipe) and big eruption out the back.
Will put back on the 3" SMP catted, resonated midpipe and the 3.5" cat back and try again tomorrow with the boost capped at a more reasonable 14psi.
The car felt crazy fast for stock fuel system and now I know why. It felt faster than my old FC on 12psi which was 345rwhp.
Thanks for making this thread and documenting your mods. I know it's just a fun build, but it is still inspiring and gives me some great ideas. Beautiful car/engine bay/craftsmanship and probably best looking car in grid most Sundays.
Amazing that the AFR's were good at those boost levels on a stock fuel system.
I have been running my FD in ASP this past year as time permits and have had a blast, though I don't feel super competitive yet.
I am running ~12lbs boost with cheap bastard intake and intercooler duct, 3" turbo back exhaust. Soon to have M2 med SMIC and intake.
Recently switched from dual Hallman MBCs to Power FC boost control and I love it. Getting much better response and more consistent, but haven't raced with it yet.
Suspension is stock 93 touring with Eibach springs.
Wheels/tires I think you know are SVE 18X10's with 255 35 18 F and 265 35 18 rear 120 treadwear Nankang NS-2Rs. Attempting to buy a decent used set of 285/30/18 A7 Hoosiers this winter. The Nankangs are decent, but nowhere near warmed up even after my last run. The only time they ever got up to temp and felt good was after a 15+ run test and tune... I guess treadwear isn't everything.
A few questions:
How have you placed in the events you have run?
What motor mounts do you have that the shifter moves around so much? I get very little movement in mine.
Do you "underfill" your oil according to the dipstick? I have a catch can between the nipple on neck and UIM and I still get oil down the driver side of my engine after racing.
Last season I did in the FD was 2013.
I placed consistently well in our little club for auto-x. Top three or so overall and a couple TTODs. Had a great battle for ASP against an Evo X. We were tied in overall points up to the end where he won by a point racing a Miata in ASP when both our cars were down.
We battled at the hillclimb where I edged him out for the ASP record.
We battled at the "Enduro" 5 lap sprint where I edged him out for the ASP record.
I did an auto-x at the kart track earlier that season and placed high even overall with the Amod cars, etc.
This season got in a couple races., but it was a bust.
Just made it to the "Enduro" but I was 2 seconds off my 2013 lap times because I only had primary turbo.
A weekend of local auto-x where I was slow. The 6 year old tires just don't come up to temp and I found all the gravel.
What motor mounts do you have that the shifter moves around so much? I get very little movement in mine.
They were the Banzai poly bushings at the time (2013 season).
Now I have stock engine bushings again, but poly differential bushings and I like that combination more (both more quiet and less movement).
Do you "underfill" your oil according to the dipstick? I have a catch can between the nipple on neck and UIM and I still get oil down the driver side of my engine after racing.
I run my oil level about 1/2 way up the hash marks at max level and let it get down to the bottom of the hashmarks before I top it back up.
For oil down the side of the engine- try purchasing a new dipstick for a tigher seal and replacing the o-ring for the oil filler neck if you haven't already.
I loved the dual Hallman Pro-RX boost control up to this latest build with the 4" exhaust where it was maxing the primary turbo and then boost creeping when the 2ndary came on. I haven't had the benefit of Power FC though. That would be great as you can really tweak all the parameters. I tried the Knight Sports dual EBC for the FD, but I couldn't get it as seamless as the MBCs when running 14psi.
I just put my 3" midpipe back on, so I will update how I am liking the MBCs with a bit less boost creep.
I forgot I had a burnt out 3" resonated midpipe that I know flows more than the SMB catted, resonated midpipe because it had more boost creep back when I was trying to run 14psi.
That should be just the compromise I need between SMB catted, resonated 3" and the 4" exhaust- but we will see shortly.
and was there a big difference in handling from 10.5 to 11s?
Handling-
Hmmmn, I was limited to 265/35-18 Ventus TD on the 10.5" wheels because they were only +38 offset. I actually preferred the turn in and sidewall feel of the 265/35-18 on 18x10.5 combination more than the 295/30-18 Ventus TD on the 18x11 +45.
As far as grip, obviously the 295/30-18 had much more grip once they were warm (took a bit longer to warm up).
I have the 285/30-18 Ventus TD on the 18x11 now and the turn in and feel is even better than the 265/35-18 on the 10.5" wide wheel. Grip is probably right in between the 265/35-18 and the 295/30-18 even with the new old stock 6 year old 285s (once they are warm, which seems to take ages).
For local auto-x in the gravel the street tires seem to do better than slicks since the tire can conform around a pebble or three better. We typically have really short 30-50 second runs in cool 55 F or so weather. Honestly thinking of trying out Hoosier Wets since I never get the tires warm to the touch unless I have the opportunity to warm them up on the street before my runs.
Totally different story for the kart track and hillclimbs.
3" resonated midpipe helped, but still creeping to 15psi and its not all that cold out yet even. I figure if it will creep to 15psi it will creep past that.
Boost control with the dual MBC was much better.
The creep was after transition now instead of boom 17psi at transition so I was able to dial the transition into being pretty seamless.
Primary turbo was a tad lazier on spool with the 3" exhaust versus the 4", but since it is so quiet you can drive around at 3,000rpm instead of below 2,000rpm so it spools great in actual driving.
Going back to the catted midpipe- no more fun with flames for me
But I really want to run with solid boost and not creep and it would be best to run at 14psi boost (or less?) like I told Nakazoto San of Knightsports when he tuned the ECU.
I hooked up my new Ballenger wideband (continuation of the old NTK wideband) to make sure my ROM tuned ECU was giving me good AFRs.
Ambient temperature was cool out and all was fine till I tried full load pulls in 4th gear. AFRs were fine, but hitting max injector duty cycle by 6,000rpm because with the 4" exhaust it is boost creeping over the 17psi I had in the warm day time.
I know what max injector duty cycle feels and looks like from tuning my old FC. Hesitation and fireball through any small exhaust leak (turbo to downpipe, midpipe) and big eruption out the back.
Will put back on the 3" SMP catted, resonated midpipe and the 3.5" cat back and try again tomorrow with the boost capped at a more reasonable 14psi.
The car felt crazy fast for stock fuel system and now I know why. It felt faster than my old FC on 12psi which was 345rwhp.
What is your AFR at full boost with your Knightsports ECU?
Also, which Holley Hydramat size are you planning on running? I've been looking into installing one myself in hopes of being able to run below a half tank without fuel starving.
10-31-18, 09:27 PM
