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According to Lance from Pantera EFI, the engineer behind the IGN-1a, "The IGN-1A coil's internal discrete power clamp diode is rated@18 volts
This type of part could pass a small current to ground beginning at 17 volts." I spoke with him on the phone about this a few weeks back. Looks like right at 17v should be fine at the battery, as it will have a tiny bit of voltage drop right below 17 by the time it hits the coils. The 7 cell battery requires 2.4 to 2.45 v per cell for maximum charging, which is anywhere from 16.8-17.15v target, so really it could be adjusted anywhere between. This would be analogous to 14.4volts on a 6 cell battery. But even then, you can run a charge of 2.25 per cell at float state when battery is fully charged, which is around 13.5 on a 6 cell, and 15.75 on the 7 cell. So if your electronics aren't too happy with 17v, you do have the option of adjusting somewhere between 15.8 and 17.15.
I haven't ran the car much, but have put a few hours on it at 17v and not a single issue with fans, fuel pump, wiring, etc. The relays may get a tad bit warmer than usual, but no issues popping fuses etc. The fans blow strong as ****. I think you wouldn't have any issues ! Maybe the ECU is the only concern?
According to Lance from Pantera EFI, the engineer behind the IGN-1a, "The IGN-1A coil's internal discrete power clamp diode is rated@18 volts
This type of part could pass a small current to ground beginning at 17 volts." I spoke with him on the phone about this a few weeks back. Looks like right at 17v should be fine at the battery, as it will have a tiny bit of voltage drop right below 17 by the time it hits the coils. The 7 cell battery requires 2.4 to 2.45 v per cell for maximum charging, which is anywhere from 16.8-17.15v target, so really it could be adjusted anywhere between. This would be analogous to 14.4volts on a 6 cell battery. But even then, you can run a charge of 2.25 per cell at float state when battery is fully charged, which is around 13.5 on a 6 cell, and 15.75 on the 7 cell. So if your electronics aren't too happy with 17v, you do have the option of adjusting somewhere between 15.8 and 17.15.
I haven't ran the car much, but have put a few hours on it at 17v and not a single issue with fans, fuel pump, wiring, etc. The relays may get a tad bit warmer than usual, but no issues popping fuses etc. The fans blow strong as ****. I think you wouldn't have any issues ! Maybe the ECU is the only concern?
Thanks so much for the info. I had a feeling you already researched the higher voltage in relation to the AEM Smart coils. You seem to have a good sense of seeing whats around the corner at this point.
If voltage can absolutely be regulated to a max of 16.5 to 17 volts I am all in. At the vary least I need to try a boost a spark since, in my experience, the AEM smart coils cannot keep up with 30+ psi and conservative rich A/F on E85 in the 600+WHP range. This is a ton of fuel on a rotary.
With the price of a boost a spark, it would be totally worth spending the extra money to go 14V and boost everything!
Thanks so much for the info. I had a feeling you already researched the higher voltage in relation to the AEM Smart coils. You seem to have a good sense of seeing whats around the corner at this point.
If voltage can absolutely be regulated to a max of 16.5 to 17 volts I am all in. At the vary least I need to try a boost a spark since, in my experience, the AEM smart coils cannot keep up with 30+ psi and conservative rich A/F on E85 in the 600+WHP range. This is a ton of fuel on a rotary.
With the price of a boost a spark, it would be totally worth spending the extra money to go 14V and boost everything!
No problem, likewise thanks for your help.
Also, just a note regarding the Boost-A-Spark. The advantage of running greater voltage to your coils is not so much about the extra output directly, but moreso about the fact that you have more output per milisecond of dwell which is only helpful if you're running out of available spark event time window. And your ECU is going to automatically reduce your dwell per the higher voltage. You'd need to counteract that to see any change in output, but keeping in mind the overall time spent at such higher duty cycle demand.
This comes down to the following:
Lets say you want to run direct fire, on an rx7, and rev to 8,500rpm. According to Lance, there's only 6.6ms total available time between spark events. So, regarding voltages, this means at 12-14v standard, you could theoretically set your coil to ~6.5ms at 8500rpm (assuming you ramped it up to this so that you're minimizing your time at full duty cycle).
If you look at the graph of the smart coil the amperage increases a ton with dwell. So its like 10amps at 4.5ms, but ends up over 30+amps at 8ms+
So on direct fire rotary, especially running up to 9K plus, you physically can't go over ~6ms dwell with out running out of time between events, and therefore can't push the coils any higher. BUT, if we raise the voltage to 16v+, this turns the output of ~4miliseconds into the same amperage/MJ as ~6.5, so it allows you a larger window. I just wonder if this melts the coils into a nice pool of metal/plastic haha
The big thing about all of this is that you don't want to overrun the coil for long. He suggests that with the increased voltage, you pull the dwell down a good bit, and especially ramp them down at idle/cruise. Lance's suggestion is do away with all RPM adjustments and reserve dwell ramping to MAP based only. He explains his coil as a heatsink, and the longer you run it the hotter it gets, more resistance it builds. He says typically he recommends a maximum of 80% duty cycle but that as long as you keep the low end turned down, you can increase the high end for brief duration.
My biggest motivator for all of this is the increased voltage to the water pumps and fuel pumps. Picked up so much more output, and hopefully did away with the need for mechanical fuel pump. According to some of the Kenne Bell BAP results, slight increase in voltage results in tremendous output change. So for example, the walbro 255 at 18v outflows a 400lph at 12v !
So now we wait for the transmission kit. 4-6 weeks ETA....hopefully that doesn't turn into 30-50 weeks, as it seems the new usual. This time I used a credit card, no more bank transfers overseas. hahahaha
I wouldn't be pulling 10k rpm with a 4 rotor, apart from the steel apex seals it would be hard on bearings. i've not heard of a 4 rotor lasting any length of time at 10k+. Good thing you didn't go hgt. It's a bit more difficult to do a warranty claim from the other side of the world.
I saw a video of your car on youtube, it looked like someone just compiled a few videos you already posted here. Today was the first time I saw the trumpet playing, it sounded great! If you haven't seen the movie 'The Five Pennies', try to find it on amazon or netflix. There are some really nice trumpet performances in that movie, Louis Armstrong is in it.
You mentioned taking some high-quality footage earlier in the build, is that posted somewhere?
I saw a video of your car on youtube, it looked like someone just compiled a few videos you already posted here. Today was the first time I saw the trumpet playing, it sounded great! If you haven't seen the movie 'The Five Pennies', try to find it on amazon or netflix. There are some really nice trumpet performances in that movie, Louis Armstrong is in it.
You mentioned taking some high-quality footage earlier in the build, is that posted somewhere?
Did I miss the details on the alternator upgrade? The alternator I had built locally already took a dump in less than a year with hardly any mileage. I'm also looking at that 14v battery. I don't need 16v but a solid 15 or so would be perfect.
T-von, Yes the alternator upgrade works unbelievably well, coupled with the 7 cell battery. Output is ridiculous on fans and fuel pumps. You won't be disappointed. However, you cannot run just 15, you must run at minimum 16+ to charge the 14v battery. But, you may purchase the same alternator and adjust the regulator to 15v for your 12v battery, assuming that doesn't boil your battery. Most AGM can handle this.
Apologize for not being on here/updating, to those who follow,
Some down time waiting on the transmission parts to arrive. I don't want to jump on the dyno/retune it until I get all of the parts and the transmission installed. Mean time, I've taken a few weeks off from the car to train for a bodybuilding competition. Will be back on it soon as the transmission is finished. Thanks guys
No word from the guy on wiring. Its been over 3 months late.
Transmission parts are now over 1 month late, no reply's from emails.
Not f*cking surprised. Anyone else surprised? Good thing is I paid half, and over credit card. So they'll get a nice back-charge here shortly.
This is what the car scene has become. Expect to pay for things twice. Expect that the last person you'd think would go AWOL, will do so. I'll say it again, in the real estate world, this sh*t doesn't happen constantly. You continue to deliver late appraisals to the bank? You make continuous mistakes? You lose your license.
Trying to make Sevenstock, and trying to get this thing on the racetrack. No more time for those who can't deliver.
This should not be a surprise at this point. Countless builds go through this. Easy way to avoid it is to have a rule, never let a supplier get ahead of you in the financials. Make them want to do your work so they can get paid. 20% initial payment at most. Say you are happy to pay more as soon as they prove that 20% of the work or cost to produce is complete.
If they won't do business like that then don't do business with them.
This type of thing happens all the time on construction projects. Contractors will jump jobs to get the cash and make you wait until they have more time to come back. I got burned once years ago, I haven't let it happen since.
So here's how its going to work. I've already sent them an email, stating how late they are, and that I require urgent performance on the contract or the parts will be absolutely useless and have no utility past the deadline.
If, I do not receive a response they will be back charged in 3 days upon receiving this email
I could not care less if they have spent money or not in the process. No updates, then I'll refund myself.
Then we'll use another company.
Things from now on will be done my way, on my schedule, or people will pay the price. The successful world doesn't work like these companies. This rob Peter to pay Paul or even worse, rob Peter to sponsor Paul, sounds like a bunch of drug addicts behind these companies. The car will get finished, and any and all means necessary will be taken.
06-27-17, 10:03 AM
I'm also looking at that 14v battery. I don't need 16v but a solid 15 or so would be perfect.
And it keeps showing up on my IG in random RX-7 memes lol.
