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I'm just going to have this thread deleted. It's just not worth it
Don't delete the thread. It documents hard work and dedication and shows what can be done in a short time with a few true friends if you are motivated enough. You brought a shell to life with a 4 rotor heart in 9 months which is an amazing achievement. Everyone will have different opinions on tuners, builders, etc. and different preferences on build decisions, wiring, ecu choice, wheel choice, take your pick. The truly amazing part is the passion.
Zach, I don't post often, and I'm not much of an FD fan, I mainly observe. But, I like what you've done, I like the perseverance. I'm sure much of this will all blow over. You seem to have the mentality with which to do so.
I have observed much of the rotary world, AUS, US, NZ, to be a very precarious one, with lots of mud being thrown no matter the person or business in question. As the educated majority know, sift with caution.
Bad experiences are that, share the facts about them, and allow others to decide on the situation on their own accord.
That being said, get that damn car running again. Sounded amazing, and it's helping push me along in my own 4R build.
Not sure if you did this already, but I would put at least a 45* elbow on that muffler exit. This way you help lessen the chances of the bumper melting due to flames/heat.
David im sorry your drop in 50k engine from a world known company isnt smooth sailing like it should have been.
I been building for a long time and I can say your not going to blow the motor revving it without a tune. In fact part of tuning is revving, idling and driving. If it has new bearings thats a different story but im not even sure it came with brand new housings judging by the pictures let alone who knows if it has new bearings since nothing has been sent to you to prove what actually has been done to it other than just a name of a company who built it.
This is all observation over a 12 month span.
There are lots of variables in any high power and or expensive and or inexpensive engine that can go wrong
With that said dont give up on the build. Atleast finish it before selling or giving up.
If all else fails send me the car and I will fix it for free for ya you pay the parts.
I could be mistaken but isnt kyle mohans 1200hp 20b tuned by nelson and outlasts the competitons engines?
Anyway awsome build, great getting to know you and keep up the good work.
I have had great experience Nelson, he figured out my issue with ignition after I had used another tuner multiple times. The only issue I have is that I am running AEM Infinity and was told I would need to pay for at least a full day tuning session so he can learn it... but as stated, he is a Haltech guy!
Not sure if you did this already, but I would put at least a 45* elbow on that muffler exit. This way you help lessen the chances of the bumper melting due to flames/heat.
-Nick
That pic was before the tip was welded on by the fabricator.
Pics of my custom exhaust work done by Walker Morgan of MPFab (same guy that did Zach's 4 rotor)
Walker does amazing work and I highly recommend him. I believe he will also be redoing the manifold for the 4 rotor kind of like the 3 rotor setup he did that was posted earlier except top-mount.
Thankyou for your support.
So zero bullsh*t policy here on, for now on will stick to updating with build content as it comes. Lot to get done this weekend. Have removed the intake, ready to start draining fluids.
Stay tuned for more updates as the fresh pump, larger sized pulley, and adjustable shim regulator arrives. Debating to install an oil tank for the external to pull from. Also may run oil lines in parallel to the coolers. Gotta get this thing on the road!
Last edited by Monsterbox; Dec 29, 2016 at 05:30 AM.
I think its extremely important for zack to bring light to issues that occur. Integrity is extremely important in our community; and although with builds like these issues will most likely arise, I firmly believe that there should be strong communication with the vendors, especially after customer has spent tens of thousands on an engine.
While I dont want to comment on zacks build, I do want to say that I have been talked into using a couple of well known rotary shops / vendors in this community and have been scammed, lied to, and deceived. Social media definitely had made me sway my decisions to these shops so the "fake world" is all to real.
My story:
I purchased my 20b from an extremely well respected forum member on this club and it would NOT make it off the trailer. The car was a mess, wires spliced everywhere, bolts missing from the block, bolts missing holding up radiator and intercooler, paint overspray and rust, the whole nine yards. I was recommended to go to a local powerhouse rotary shop and the car got completely disregarded for a year and a half after deposit being sent. Not only did they not work on the car, the car sat outside after being promised in contract it would be sheltered inside, thus making the already half-*** paint job and rust even worse. After a year and half waiting with no progress, the shop owner disappeared and ignored customer/land lord phone calls. Shortly after the shop went out of business and I picked up my car in worse conditions than before, with the block outside of the chassis. The shop owner took my 3-4,000$ deposit and disappeared once again.
I had another well respected rotary shop rebuild the motor, one of the most iconic shops, located in Maryland, (which I will get into later) and I had another local shop drop in the motor, set up fuel, oil system, etc. I flew out Zack to help me get the car started, only to uncover the many misleading, crooked, mis-doings of the last two previous shops. Before he would came out, Zack contacted the installer for me to go over how everything was setup. The computer on the car was wrong for the engine and zach ordered me an ecu from LMS and engine wire harness. That weekend, I paid for Zack's flight and expenses to MD, shelter and the huge amount of tools needed to fix the last shops misdoings. Zack fixed the fuel pump wiring that was messed up and found that the fuel lines were installed backwards. He rewired the water pump electronics and the fans which were a mess. There were so many things messed up / corners cut that we both could not physically fix it all in one weekend. While wiring the car, zack showed me that the external oil feeds on the engine were blocked off with plastic caps. He contacted the installer for me, pointing out the issues, only to be told we didn't know what we were doing and that the caps were extra places for coolant lines. We drove across Maryland searching for a store that sold these special fittings and lines so that it could be corrected for the oil. If I trusted the rotary shop that built the engine, I think it could have ended up tragic. Myself my brother and zack worked for over 48 hrs trying to get the car finished. Zack was kind enough to refund me half the money I owed him because car didn't run, first time I have encountered that. Unfortunately, there wasn't enough time for us to physically finish the car in one weekend and zack recommended me to bring my car to Eccentric motorsports.
After trailing the car 11 hours away to Eccentric Motorsports, Zachariah had uncovered all the dishonest work that I paid thousands of dollars for and waited many years for. After getting all the mechanical aspects finished, the car did end up starting in this video below. Shortly after, we noticed the pulley was wobbling so we figured that the bearing was wrongly assembled in the front cover. Below are the pictures of my "new bearings" that I had purchased from a well known and respected rotary shop. We decided to pull the plug and take apart the engine AGAIN (two rebuilds in one year) and I am still in that process.
There are many nameless individuals like myself who have gone down this path and have been deceived, scammed, and betrayed by so many of the well known shops and vendors. I am just sharing one of many stories I know that can shed some truth and harsh reality of what its like to endure a build of this caliber. There are a few shops that only care about making money and they are on these forums daily.
I hope you don't delete this thread due to negativity Zack, its something that I follow daily, and it keeps me with hope that my car will one day run. People like you are an inspiration to many and I hope you keep this thread up to inspire and show the reality of building a 4 rotor.
On the other hand, there are also MANY smaller shops and individuals that do NOT get the spotlight. They are unrecognized, but they are true heroes and put out 10x more amazing work. Eccentric Motorsports, Zack, silverfdturbo6port, thank you guys for instilling hope and inspiring me! Hopefully after this 3rd year my 20b will run. Thank you.
Below are just a few of many pictures of crooked work I've received.
JZZ - You have had to put up with a lot of issues in your build process. It's really a shame that there are so many shops that over promise and under deliver.
Everyone is capable of making mistakes (I know I have) but its owning up to your mistakes and learning from them that is important.
I don't get it. If you get scammed that bad (which clearly you did judging by the sheet metal screws in your intake holding the reboot clamp on haha), take videos of everything when you go over it and post it up with names. This way a shop can't tell you that you don't know what you are doing. By not giving names, your post doesn't help anyone avoid the same issues and those that scammed you keep going on to do it again to someone else.
Don't muddy up this thread more, make a new one and post full detail so it will help others.
^^ what he said. Not to undermine what you have gone through, and trust me I think to some extent all of us in the three and four rotor swap Community has gone through drama in our progress. Make another thread. The story deserves attention
My point of the post is to support the integrity of this thread. Showing the hardships of going through a build like this is relatable and gets me through the ups and downs. I am not posting names yet due to legal purposes.
Subframe removed, oil pan removed, patched a weld, oil regulator replaced with high-pressure and added shim, and front bypass shimmed, larger pulley installed, new pump reinstalled, oil pan reinstalled using studs and nuts, subframe reinstalled
Next:
-New plumbing for oil system
-Exhaust manifold fabrication to begin Jan 18th
Last edited by Monsterbox; Jan 5, 2017 at 10:57 PM.
Don't delete it. This thread and the monsterbox 3 rotor thread have both been inspiring. Haters will hate and ignorance has no boundaries. That being said I think your car is kickass and will be following until its fully sorted! Keep on keeping' on
Let's burn this CAS Cap together, David!