Ramy, you picked the only industry that could be worse than the auto industry lol.

More like when the customer complains enough we start working. You yourself said the customers that bothered you the most got their work completed the fastest. I found the same thing to be true at other shops with the exception of Mandeville. I have given up on being accommodating or having friendships with these people because they only use it against you.

There are not too many variables. This is not rocket science. Mazda even publishes estimated work time for a lot of repairs. The real problem is poor management, lack of experience (which makes it difficult to give an accurate estimate) and/or incompetence.

Sorry for the tangent David . . .

 

continuing off topic, as there will be no real updates for a long time, I want to comment on the statement, "better to fail on his watch than yours" or something to that effect. No shop I've been to would be willing to cover the cost should something "fail" on their watch, unless there was obvious gross negligence. let's say the engine pops on the dyno. What is gotham's policy?

 

My T-shirt printer back'd out on me yesterday morning after I been trying to confirm my order for past 7 days.. Now I have exactly 4 weeks to get 300 shirts printed..

I was on the phone all day yesterday trying to find someone... and I think i found a printer and hoping that they could deliver within next 2-3 weeks (at a reasonable price). Some people don't quite understand the meaning, "time is gold". This vendor/ ex-event sponsor told me, "sorry!". That was it! Some people...

 

Really? How much of the work you've had done on your project is published by Mazda with estimated work times? Point being, a custom project is a whole different ballgame then a simple motor job.

Ihor and I have customers come to us from out of state, and we have no problem telling them when the car will be ready for pickup. That's because we're not doing custom jobs, typically we are performing motor r&r's, ports and builds. It makes it much easier to predict and make projections when you have an extensive frame of reference to work with.

 

All manufacturers have baseline time estimates for labor. However, they are grossly inflated. For instance, BMW has 11 hours for a clutch change. Now, I haven't specifically changed a clutch on a BMW, but I have on the RX7 and it doesn't take 11 hours. BMW themselves had my clutch on their workbench in under 2 hours and it wasn't going to take 9 hours to put the new one in.

The manufacturer work times are for dealership billing purposes only.

But I agree with Rich, custom work is always unpredictable.

 

I was responding to your general statement that you ended with 'generally speaking'. That said, installing a bunch of off the shelf parts is not ‘custom work’.

The only thing that I believe was constructed for David was the water tank. You know how long that would take a fabricator to create –less than a day. Think about it, Gotham had to pay someone for it and I doubt they were willing to work for free. Figure $75 an hr times 8 hrs. Unless David paid more than $600 for that water tank I doubt it took more than a day’s worth of labor to do.

The rest of it is bolt up stuff and that can be estimated. Add a month on for misc fabrication projects. Where did the other ~5 months go? Take David’s labor bill and divide it by the number of days they had his car. I bet it comes out to less than 1 hour of labor/productivity a day. That is poor management on their part IMO.

Steve has a frame of reference. His own car has a 20b with an E11. Gotham has experience installing turbo kits don’t they?? Do you seriously think it has taken this long because they have been standing there pondering what to do? If that’s the case they shouldn’t be holding themselves out as experts or learning on David’s dime.

 

Take the knife out of my back.

I actually was pissed when my deadline was not met. But, I realized the extent of the project and dealt with all the sponsors who were not happy. The reason you have to deal with these holdups, in my opinion, is because at some point there is a negative correlation between giving a shop a deadline and the quality of the job.

However, this is a business, much like any other, and if the shop decides to give you a deadline, they should meet it. I want to know if David was given that deadline by the shop because I suspect he was. Any shop should build in safeguards, even if that means putting 11 hours in to change a clutch, or they should just say, it is done when it is done. If they choose to give a deadline for an out of state person and miss it, they should eat the trip cancellation costs. Rich, I may not have owned a shop, but you can not tell me this business is so different from every other business that strives to deliver deadlines to clients. Simply, if you miss those deadlines enough times in a row, you wont be in business all too long. (That being said, I know Gotham meets its deadlines 99% of the time, so obviously they should be in business a long time) Also Rich, since you are lucky enough to be able to do your own work, you dont know the pain of paying this much......

 

Interesting turn the thread has taken.

First, I am very happy with the work that has been done at Gotham. They have gone over the car in detail and have uncovered many issues caused by Wolf (and some by Pettit) that could have caused me serious safety and reliability issues. I am much, much better off having these items corrected. Alex and Brian's attention to detail (some may say they're ****) has really helped. The car is going to be something we're all proud of and I'm looking forward to getting it back.

For the overall job, I never was promised a deadline for completion. I basically stole the car from Wolf USA (read the thread about Chris Green - I'm very happy I got my car out before his shop emploded) and then dumped the car on Gotham. I still remember the call to Alex and Brock saying the car will be there shortly Gotham stated at the time they'd work the car in but couldn't promise a completion time for me. They did say they'd do their best and I think they have.

Yes, it's taken six months, but they've worked on many, many more issues than anticipated. Most of these were mistakes made by Wolf (bad wiring, numerous broken parts, poor fabrication, etc.) and some were new items (the water injection system, PLX gauges, etc.). FYI - the injection tank cost $500 as it was the prototype. My guess is the car has taken about 3 to 4 times more effort than originally anticipated. The car is definately looking great though and the wait will be worth it. Check it out in Atlanta or at DGRR and let me know if you agree.

As for not being able to pick the car up this week, yes, I'm disappointed Steve had to go to Malaysia. I'm also bummed being out the $1K it took to reroute my trip back to Jacksonville (my wife and I were in San Francisco when we got the call - because of the big storm on the east coast that weekend, it took me about 4 hours on the phone with numerous airlines and hotels to cancel and reschedule). I'm sure Gotham will work out something for the inconvenience. I was already scheduled to be in Atlanta on April 5th and 6th so hanging around an extra day to pick up the car is not a big deal.

Finally, Ramy you picked an industry (healthcare) with which I am intimately familiar. My career was healthcare software (www.tempus.com) until I sold the company in 2004. You are correct with the way things normally happen regarding patients and waiting (you used surgery as an example). Interestingly, I made a lot of money off of changing these perceptions and eliminating waiing times. Statisitics prove most hospital events are pretty consistent and can be planned for. Our software pretty much eliminated patient waiting and I amde a bundle in the process.

I am a big believer the same can be done in the automotive industry. Wouldn't it be cool if you could go to a shop, be given a schedule of events for your car and have the car be ready when it was promised? The shop that could do this would really prosper. FYI - some jobs, like mine are not typical and cannot be measured.

Anyway, just some random thoughts. As for my Gotham experience, it's been great and I should have sent the car there in the first place.

 

How about back to the thread topic now?

 

Your car is SICK! The kit of wheels, fenders from Pettit suits the car really well and you have top notch guys working on your car. It is the second most viewed thread in 3rd gen section for a reason. This is something that mostly all of us would like to do but either don't have the resources, patience our in the wanna be cases a car to do it to!

I think that is right back on topic

 

I like the fenders as well, but I'm not a fan of the exposed screw heads. Seems better suited on a Jeep or pick-up truck.

 

^

Well with it that way instead of molded he can drive it like it was meant to be driven and not thinking about cracking his fenders daily.

I like it because I am a ricer it looks "race"

 

Too funny. At first I was going to go the molded route but the more I looked at the fenders with the SS screw heads, the more I liked the look. And this way I don't have to worry about cracks in the fenders or with the molding. If something happens, I unbolt them and send them off for repair/paint. So for now they stay as is. If I were to mold them in, I'd have someone fab up a set of metal ones and weld them on.

Spoke with Gotham late last week. The only items remaining on the punch list are the completion of the wastegate dump into the downpipe, charging the AC system, and figuring out why the XM radio is no longer working. As you may recall, all of my AC components were replaced becaue they were left exposed for a year by Wolf. The good news side of this is at least everything is new and should work great. Gotta have AC in FL. The downpipe is turning out well also. Gotham was able to figure out an efficient way of rerouting the wastegate into the downpipe so the car will be as quiet as possible. Other benefit is the 1200+ heat won't be blasting the engine components. This fabrication was supposed to be completed yesterday and the downpipe is scheduled for ceramic coating early next week. As for the XM radio, it's been awhile since I used it, but as I recall, I used to just change the "source" button on the Pioneer unit and XM would play. Could the XM unit be missing? I'm having Gotham's stereo guy track this down. Hate to be paying for someone else's XM radio usage - I never canceled the service because I thought the car would only be gone for 2/3 months. Everyting else on the punch list (20+ items) is completed including replacing all of the broken OEM plastic pieces, the rear hatch shocks (forgot how well these work when they're not broken), polishing the turbo housing, and fixing my alternator problem. The car's voltage would drop below 12 and would eat batteries. Tried numerous alternators and now have one that pushes 300 AMPs. The cuprit it seems were the dual Spal race fans. Now, with everything on (AC not tested yet), including all lights, etc., voltage never drops below 14 volts.

So, I hope within two weeks my 20B conversion odyssey is over and I can actually enjoy the car. I've accumulated over the past two years a nice little pile of add on parts (rotary extreme hood dampers, redlinegoods shift boot, etc. - stuff I can install)
and I'm looking forward to putting these on. So, hopefully on April 7th I'll post pics and results of the dyno session in Atlanta.

 

With comments like these, it almost (but not quite) makes the long and expensive process worth it. Thanks!

 

I also think it looks good, but that may be because it reminds me of the Porsche 993 GT2. That's a reasonable basis though right?

 

I think the only thing that'll make it worth it will be driving it and seeing it in your own garage every day!

Your XM unit may not be connected to its antenna. Also, did you try it while outside? It won't work under a metal roof or near metal walls (it has to "see" the satellite).

 

Yes, it was tried outside with a clear view of the satellite. Did a quick check but couldn't locate the unit under the dash. This was pretty quick so it might be there and be unplugged. The head unit doesn't even recognize the XM radio so it's either unplugged or missing. Hopefull it's the unplugged one.

 

updates

 

Need to speak with Gotham. Still planning on picking up the car next Saturday. Steve is back in the US from Malaysia.

 

Update:

Well, it looks like it is a go for picking up the car this Saturday at the tuning event in Atlanta. Spoke with Alex on Saturday and Steve today. The major issue they had - the fabrication of the downpipe and wastegate - is now complete. This gave Gotham a lot of problems. The wastegate now dumps directly into the downpipe. Ceramic coating won't happen as it would take too long so Gotham is going to thermal wrap the downpipe and I'll figure out the ceramic coating later. I have a contact here in Jacksonville that can take care of this.

Other than that, I'm calling into Gotham tomorrow to go over the punch list to ensure everything is complete. Steve gets the car then for tuning. He's driving the car to Atlanta on Thursday and I'll hook up with him on Friday or at the event on Saturday.

At the event, the plan is to dyno the car on Saturday so if anyone is in the Atlanta area and wants to come on out, I'll be there. Looks like the two year odyessy is about to end!

 

bump

 

have fun David and all the best luck from the Netherlands!

 

counting the days .............................

Have fun!

 

hey i am actually going up to jacksonville with my fd this weekend. any possibility you will be back? how far away is the tuning event from jax? maybe a jax fd caravan up there. let me know

 

David, glad to hear your finally gonna get her back. Enjoy it, and be safe.