Kilo Racing 3 Rotor FD Conversion
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,050
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From: New York
Originally Posted by David Hayes
Nope, haven't been up there in the FD recently. Went up to Bonito's for sushi a few weeks ago but was in the Range Rover.
K so now you're going to sell me 2 vehicles...
Good luck in finishing your car bro!
Originally Posted by PhoenixDownVII
You're kidding, right? Range rover is my favorite SUV. I told myself that if the money is there, I'd love to own a Range Rover beside my FD.
K so now you're going to sell me 2 vehicles...
Good luck in finishing your car bro!
K so now you're going to sell me 2 vehicles...
Good luck in finishing your car bro!
Administrative Me
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,370
Likes: 0
From: Kansas
You select the ECU that your tuner is most comfortable with. There is no point having an ECU that the tuner can't tune; even if it has all the bells and whistles. In reading some stuff, it seems Cam is relying on a few other folks for the more in-depth areas of the ECU. If this is the case, why did you select the Wolf unit? The Microtech is a proven system, and many people running 20b's use it. Was it just a bell/whistle thing? Or?
Originally Posted by Red-Rx7
You select the ECU that your tuner is most comfortable with. There is no point having an ECU that the tuner can't tune; even if it has all the bells and whistles. In reading some stuff, it seems Cam is relying on a few other folks for the more in-depth areas of the ECU. If this is the case, why did you select the Wolf unit? The Microtech is a proven system, and many people running 20b's use it. Was it just a bell/whistle thing? Or?
Originally Posted by Red-Rx7
Was it just a bell/whistle thing? Or?
Things will work out David!
Last edited by t-von; Feb 21, 2005 at 07:29 PM.
David,
FWIW, I wonder if you had a voltage spike when you had the failed alternator, which in turn took out the ECU.
I would have Wolf in Australia check to see if something in the "power" portion of the ECU failed due to over-voltage.
Mercedes has a device made by Siemens or Bosch, called an "Over-Voltage Protection" relay or OVP that the criticual ECU's (e.g., ABS, Engine ECU, etc.) are connected in series to.
I would get one from a 1993-1995 W124 car (about $60-$90 new), and install it to protect the critical electronics.
I'll be installing one soon as well.
:-) neil
FWIW, I wonder if you had a voltage spike when you had the failed alternator, which in turn took out the ECU.
I would have Wolf in Australia check to see if something in the "power" portion of the ECU failed due to over-voltage.
Mercedes has a device made by Siemens or Bosch, called an "Over-Voltage Protection" relay or OVP that the criticual ECU's (e.g., ABS, Engine ECU, etc.) are connected in series to.
I would get one from a 1993-1995 W124 car (about $60-$90 new), and install it to protect the critical electronics.
I'll be installing one soon as well.
:-) neil
The reason I went with the Wolf is because Link no longer supports the 20B. This is the unit Cam has used exclusively for his past 20B conversions. Thus, I had to find something else to manage the engine.
Haltech and Wolf were the two "finalists" for the install. Cam has extensive experience with both of these units, but not with the new versions, the Haltech E11 or the Wolf 4D. So, it really came down to who we thought we could get the best support from. Chris Greene was extremely enthusiastic about the project so we went with Wolf.
I too think the end result with the Wolf will be excellent. The unit does have many bells and whistles but Cam went with it because of his past Wolf experiences and because of the unit's ability to run the OMP.
As for the voltage issue, anything is possible. Wolf Australia is checking out the ECU as it has been sent directly to them and a new unit should be at Pettit today. In the meantime, Pettit is going thru all the wiring again to ensure that everything is perfect.
Cross your fingers!
Haltech and Wolf were the two "finalists" for the install. Cam has extensive experience with both of these units, but not with the new versions, the Haltech E11 or the Wolf 4D. So, it really came down to who we thought we could get the best support from. Chris Greene was extremely enthusiastic about the project so we went with Wolf.
I too think the end result with the Wolf will be excellent. The unit does have many bells and whistles but Cam went with it because of his past Wolf experiences and because of the unit's ability to run the OMP.
As for the voltage issue, anything is possible. Wolf Australia is checking out the ECU as it has been sent directly to them and a new unit should be at Pettit today. In the meantime, Pettit is going thru all the wiring again to ensure that everything is perfect.
Cross your fingers!
Originally Posted by M104-AMG
David,
FWIW, I wonder if you had a voltage spike when you had the failed alternator, which in turn took out the ECU.
I would have Wolf in Australia check to see if something in the "power" portion of the ECU failed due to over-voltage.
Mercedes has a device made by Siemens or Bosch, called an "Over-Voltage Protection" relay or OVP that the criticual ECU's (e.g., ABS, Engine ECU, etc.) are connected in series to.
I would get one from a 1993-1995 W124 car (about $60-$90 new), and install it to protect the critical electronics.
I'll be installing one soon as well.
:-) neil
FWIW, I wonder if you had a voltage spike when you had the failed alternator, which in turn took out the ECU.
I would have Wolf in Australia check to see if something in the "power" portion of the ECU failed due to over-voltage.
Mercedes has a device made by Siemens or Bosch, called an "Over-Voltage Protection" relay or OVP that the criticual ECU's (e.g., ABS, Engine ECU, etc.) are connected in series to.
I would get one from a 1993-1995 W124 car (about $60-$90 new), and install it to protect the critical electronics.
I'll be installing one soon as well.
:-) neil
That's pretty ironic because I was just talking with a buddy this morning about a device like this to protect the ECU from future problems. I'd be very interested in the results.
Wolf ECU Update
Hello,
Pettit received the new Wolf ECU yesterday and installed it. Guess what? The new unit blew as well!
Cam rechecked all of the wiring and found no problems. He then took apart the new ECU and traced the section that blew to the AC off input wire. Turns out that when my AC turns off, the car sends a signal to the ECU which in turn blows that section of the circuit.
Wolf is on the problem and will provide a fix ASAP. My question is, hasn't anyone else used the Wolf version 4 with the AC on? It's interesting because the unit will still operate with this section of the borad blown, but will operate in a very sporadic fashion.
Cam resoldered the blown section and reinstalled the unit, minus the AC input wire for now. I've heard rumors that he made a lot of tuning progress last night and the car now sounds "crispy". That's good, right?
We'll keep you posted!
Pettit received the new Wolf ECU yesterday and installed it. Guess what? The new unit blew as well!
Cam rechecked all of the wiring and found no problems. He then took apart the new ECU and traced the section that blew to the AC off input wire. Turns out that when my AC turns off, the car sends a signal to the ECU which in turn blows that section of the circuit.
Wolf is on the problem and will provide a fix ASAP. My question is, hasn't anyone else used the Wolf version 4 with the AC on? It's interesting because the unit will still operate with this section of the borad blown, but will operate in a very sporadic fashion.
Cam resoldered the blown section and reinstalled the unit, minus the AC input wire for now. I've heard rumors that he made a lot of tuning progress last night and the car now sounds "crispy". That's good, right?
We'll keep you posted!
Originally Posted by David Hayes
Hello,
Pettit received the new Wolf ECU yesterday and installed it. Guess what? The new unit blew as well!
Cam rechecked all of the wiring and found no problems. He then took apart the new ECU and traced the section that blew to the AC off input wire. Turns out that when my AC turns off, the car sends a signal to the ECU which in turn blows that section of the circuit.
<SNIP>
Pettit received the new Wolf ECU yesterday and installed it. Guess what? The new unit blew as well!
Cam rechecked all of the wiring and found no problems. He then took apart the new ECU and traced the section that blew to the AC off input wire. Turns out that when my AC turns off, the car sends a signal to the ECU which in turn blows that section of the circuit.
<SNIP>
I would install an inline fuse holder on the A/C input to the ECU, and check with Wolf as to the maximum current and voltage to select the proper fuse.
:-) neil
Small Update
Cam at Pettit received this response from Wolf Australia regarding the blown ECU:
"Hi,
I had a look at the photo you sent of the wolf 3d. Apparently we have seen this part blow up on the wolf before but it should not affect the operation of the wolf. Check that no other tracks are damaged and the wolf should be fine to use. The A/C input should be fine as well. regards David"
Interesting...
Anyway, should know more today about the status of the FD.
"Hi,
I had a look at the photo you sent of the wolf 3d. Apparently we have seen this part blow up on the wolf before but it should not affect the operation of the wolf. Check that no other tracks are damaged and the wolf should be fine to use. The A/C input should be fine as well. regards David"
Interesting...
Anyway, should know more today about the status of the FD.
Junior Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
From: NZ
^^ Thats odd isnt it... yeah our product is known to blow up but it dosnt need that bit so not to worry .
After the time and money you have put in im sure you wouldnt want a semi blown ecu controlling your engine... hope not anyway.
.After the time and money you have put in im sure you wouldnt want a semi blown ecu controlling your engine... hope not anyway.
Do It! Do It!
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,994
Likes: 0
From: Crofton, MD
Originally Posted by FDHayce
^^ Thats odd isnt it... yeah our product is known to blow up but it dosnt need that bit so not to worry .
After the time and money you have put in im sure you wouldnt want a semi blown ecu controlling your engine... hope not anyway.
.After the time and money you have put in im sure you wouldnt want a semi blown ecu controlling your engine... hope not anyway.
Originally Posted by David Hayes
Three additional shots of the car. The first is of the big brake kit on the front.
I said it once, I will said it again, this is the nicest FD that I had seen. This is what I want my FD to look like when it grows up
Originally Posted by Red-Rx7
David-
What exhaust setup did Cam put on the car? How many resonators, if any? Also, what RPM did your "moderate" dyno video rev up to? Your car sounds so mellow compared to mine in the lower ranges, but my exhaust is also "rice" compared to yours (even with two resonators).
Here is how mine sounds in comparison (only taken to 6100 RPMS in the video):
Yours: http://mindclarity.com/cloead/120-2059_MVI.AVI
Mine: http://home.comcast.net/~mhaun5/rx7/RedRx713PSI.wmv
I really like how .. (is mild the correct word?) "mild" your exhaust notes are. Since you have been driving it a bunch, how is the overall vibration of the exhaust on the highways, with long periods of driving?
With mine, the exhaust note is low in 5th gear; but the vibration/resonation that you can hear makes you deaf on long periods of driving. When it happens, you don't even know it until you try to talk outloud (and cant hear yourself) or speaking to someone else (for again, the exhaust note isn't loud - just the resonated low-key sound).
I was planning on doing what the Mclaren F1 cars do; install a headset (hooked to my in car-pc) with an VOX communication device to talk to each other (along with the ability to listen to sound, etc). Though, I would think it would look a little dorky having headsets on in the car to most people .
What exhaust setup did Cam put on the car? How many resonators, if any? Also, what RPM did your "moderate" dyno video rev up to? Your car sounds so mellow compared to mine in the lower ranges, but my exhaust is also "rice"
compared to yours (even with two resonators).Here is how mine sounds in comparison (only taken to 6100 RPMS in the video):
Yours: http://mindclarity.com/cloead/120-2059_MVI.AVI
Mine: http://home.comcast.net/~mhaun5/rx7/RedRx713PSI.wmv
I really like how .. (is mild the correct word?) "mild" your exhaust notes are. Since you have been driving it a bunch, how is the overall vibration of the exhaust on the highways, with long periods of driving?
With mine, the exhaust note is low in 5th gear; but the vibration/resonation that you can hear makes you deaf on long periods of driving. When it happens, you don't even know it until you try to talk outloud (and cant hear yourself) or speaking to someone else (for again, the exhaust note isn't loud - just the resonated low-key sound).
I was planning on doing what the Mclaren F1 cars do; install a headset (hooked to my in car-pc) with an VOX communication device to talk to each other (along with the ability to listen to sound, etc). Though, I would think it would look a little dorky having headsets on in the car to most people
.plus, in most states, driving with headphones on is illegal
Rebreaking things
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,586
Likes: 0
From: 1 foot in Boston 1 in NJ
Originally Posted by David Hayes
Cam at Pettit received this response from Wolf Australia regarding the blown ECU:
"Hi, I had a look at the photo you sent of the wolf 3d. Apparently we have seen this part blow up on the wolf before but it should not affect the operation of the wolf.
"Hi, I had a look at the photo you sent of the wolf 3d. Apparently we have seen this part blow up on the wolf before but it should not affect the operation of the wolf.
Check that no other tracks are damaged and the wolf should be fine to use. The A/C input should be fine as well. regards David"
Interesting...
Anyway, should know more today about the status of the FD.
Anyway, should know more today about the status of the FD.
Last edited by CCarlisi; Mar 4, 2005 at 01:21 PM.
^^ I agree.. If that part isn't useful, why even put it in?.. We're not talking about some luxury car items here with bunch of useless things..
Anyhow, I also agree that I think its time for you to either get a new Wolf ECU or tell Cam to put different type of ECU.. I'm sure he doesn't want to do that, since he might have to rewire.. but sounds like you've spend enough time already.. probably could of put Haltech or Cam's previous Microtech stuff.. So, why is it that you didn't go with Microtech?? Isn't that what he used to use?? I've been doing some research about my future 20b and people seems to like Haltec.. I was originally thinking Tec3..
Anyhow, I also agree that I think its time for you to either get a new Wolf ECU or tell Cam to put different type of ECU.. I'm sure he doesn't want to do that, since he might have to rewire.. but sounds like you've spend enough time already.. probably could of put Haltech or Cam's previous Microtech stuff.. So, why is it that you didn't go with Microtech?? Isn't that what he used to use?? I've been doing some research about my future 20b and people seems to like Haltec.. I was originally thinking Tec3..
development
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 7
From: Lafayette, LA
Originally Posted by David Hayes
The Hal;tach or Mocrotech are good backups but it would require a lot of wiring rework and tuning at this time.
Hopefully Wolf will come thru on this and I'll be happy by the end of the week.
Hopefully Wolf will come thru on this and I'll be happy by the end of the week.
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/electron-manipulation-336924/
You can hire me
I'm now back fro Pettit and all appears to be well. I'll post over the weekend the results and comments. Doug (PalmTreeDoc) took some videos I think you guys will like.
FYI - 385 RWHP and 365 ft. lbs of torque at 10 PSI.
This project certainly has taken some very unusual twists and turns!
FYI - 385 RWHP and 365 ft. lbs of torque at 10 PSI.
This project certainly has taken some very unusual twists and turns!
Originally Posted by GOTBANNED?
so will there be more tuning to get more power out or is that the end result now?
Maybe after some sleep tomorrow, I'll feel different.
I'll post the dyno soon - am waiting on an email from Pettit. The torque curve is outstanding, with the full 365 available at a little over 3,000 RPM and thru the entire RPM band. My original goal on the RWHP was 400 so we're still not there yet, at least not at 10 PSI.