Kilo Racing 3 Rotor FD Conversion
02-14-05, 11:20 AM
#777
Originally Posted by David Hayes
Stupid question - when and where is it?
JK
LMAO
02-15-05, 08:47 PM
#778
Update
I hesitate to even post this but I'm heading down to Pettit's this week for what I hope is the final tuning. I didn't want to say anything until the car was ready to go though but oh well.
When I get everything finalized, I'll post the results. Dean here in Jax FL has been great helping me prep for my trip back to Pettit. Turns out I had a bad alternator on the car and was making only a little above 11 volts. Sure explains a lot about the performance of the car recently.
So, this is fixed as well as several other little things so I should be good to go now. We'll see!
dh
When I get everything finalized, I'll post the results. Dean here in Jax FL has been great helping me prep for my trip back to Pettit. Turns out I had a bad alternator on the car and was making only a little above 11 volts. Sure explains a lot about the performance of the car recently.
So, this is fixed as well as several other little things so I should be good to go now. We'll see!
dh
02-15-05, 08:54 PM
#780
02-16-05, 11:43 PM
#785
Originally Posted by GOTBANNED?
ya i know i tried looking then my eyes started to hurt from looking soo much
i think he said the rears are 335/30/18? but the fronts i don;t know
i think he said the rears are 335/30/18? but the fronts i don;t know
02-21-05, 03:28 PM
#786
Originally Posted by carlos@the-rotary.net
David,
I've heard of that "Dean" guy and rumor has it that he knows a thing or two about rotaries and ECUs... ;-)
Eitherway, best of luck down at Cams!
I've heard of that "Dean" guy and rumor has it that he knows a thing or two about rotaries and ECUs... ;-)
Eitherway, best of luck down at Cams!
Look forward to meeting you sometime.
dh
02-21-05, 03:53 PM
#787
Update: Almost Completed - Maybe
Well,
It's been an eventful several days down at Pettit. I'll save all the boring details but the bottom line is, the car is still not completed.
I showed up at Pettit last Thursday morning with dreams of success on my mind. Cam has set aside the day for the tuning session, I had Chris Greene from Wolf USA on stand by in case we needed assistance, and Doug (PalmTreeDoc) was showing up with his camcorder so we could post vids of the engine sound and the car on the road. The best of intentions, right?
Cam began working on the car and things were going great. Cam tuned the car for about 8 PSI and got the car to 374 RWHP and about 340 ft. lbs. of torque:
Notice the nice flat torque curve. The car pulls great from a little above 3,000 RPM straight across the RPM band. Also notice that we acheived this level without even going into the car's RPM "sweet spot" (6,500 - 7,000 RPM).
Anyway, I was pretty excited at this point. All we had to do now was turn up the boost and do a little adjusting at the higher load ranges in the fuel map. Seems simple, right?
Well, when Cam turned up the boost to 12 PSI, all hell broke loose. The car's AFR rates changed dramatically and never stayed consistent. Cam went from lean situations to rich but could never get a nice flat AFR curve set. He literally tried for 72 hours straight. We even brought Chris Greene into the situation and nothing he tried worked either. He kept sending us revised maps and they ran the car like shi*. Both Cam and Chris were very confused at this point (by this time, it was Saturday afternoon).
Then, funny things started to happen. Sometimes the ECU would crank over the car and sometimes it would not. The Wolf unit has 2 rows of LEDs on it - sometimes these would light and sometimes they wouldn't. Nothing was consistent but all was most frustrating.
As a last ditch measure, Cam removed the ECU and inspected the motherboard. Guess what? A section of the board hasdblown a resister and several of the circuits were shot. It seems that all this time (probably have over a week invested now in the tuning when it should only take a couple of hours) we've been working with a defective ECU.
I guess I'm both bummed and relieved at the same time. Everyone has invested much time in the project and it's still not done. On the other hand, at least we now know what we're dealing with and it's fixable. Chris Greene is drop shipping another unit for Tuesday delivery and Cam is shipping the old unit to Australia for diagnostics. Wolf wants to ensure that the problem is related only to my unit and not others. This is most likely because my car is a 3 rotor and had to be specially wired by Chris. I've also experienced an alternator issue that led me last week to replacing the original on the car. Although I'd think this would cause lower voltage, it's possible this might have messed up the unit.
Anyway, I have all involved parties working to solve the issue and get the car finalized this week. I'll keep all of you posted on the results - soon - or i hope so!
It's been an eventful several days down at Pettit. I'll save all the boring details but the bottom line is, the car is still not completed.
I showed up at Pettit last Thursday morning with dreams of success on my mind. Cam has set aside the day for the tuning session, I had Chris Greene from Wolf USA on stand by in case we needed assistance, and Doug (PalmTreeDoc) was showing up with his camcorder so we could post vids of the engine sound and the car on the road. The best of intentions, right?
Cam began working on the car and things were going great. Cam tuned the car for about 8 PSI and got the car to 374 RWHP and about 340 ft. lbs. of torque:
Notice the nice flat torque curve. The car pulls great from a little above 3,000 RPM straight across the RPM band. Also notice that we acheived this level without even going into the car's RPM "sweet spot" (6,500 - 7,000 RPM).
Anyway, I was pretty excited at this point. All we had to do now was turn up the boost and do a little adjusting at the higher load ranges in the fuel map. Seems simple, right?
Well, when Cam turned up the boost to 12 PSI, all hell broke loose. The car's AFR rates changed dramatically and never stayed consistent. Cam went from lean situations to rich but could never get a nice flat AFR curve set. He literally tried for 72 hours straight. We even brought Chris Greene into the situation and nothing he tried worked either. He kept sending us revised maps and they ran the car like shi*. Both Cam and Chris were very confused at this point (by this time, it was Saturday afternoon).
Then, funny things started to happen. Sometimes the ECU would crank over the car and sometimes it would not. The Wolf unit has 2 rows of LEDs on it - sometimes these would light and sometimes they wouldn't. Nothing was consistent but all was most frustrating.
As a last ditch measure, Cam removed the ECU and inspected the motherboard. Guess what? A section of the board hasdblown a resister and several of the circuits were shot. It seems that all this time (probably have over a week invested now in the tuning when it should only take a couple of hours) we've been working with a defective ECU.
I guess I'm both bummed and relieved at the same time. Everyone has invested much time in the project and it's still not done. On the other hand, at least we now know what we're dealing with and it's fixable. Chris Greene is drop shipping another unit for Tuesday delivery and Cam is shipping the old unit to Australia for diagnostics. Wolf wants to ensure that the problem is related only to my unit and not others. This is most likely because my car is a 3 rotor and had to be specially wired by Chris. I've also experienced an alternator issue that led me last week to replacing the original on the car. Although I'd think this would cause lower voltage, it's possible this might have messed up the unit.
Anyway, I have all involved parties working to solve the issue and get the car finalized this week. I'll keep all of you posted on the results - soon - or i hope so!
02-21-05, 04:01 PM
#788
Out of order
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David, I thought I saw you driving near Fernadina 2 weeks ago? You drove the opposite direction near the American Beach entrance. I was driving the white FD with the Amemiya undersweep. I flashed my lights at you (no horn) but I dont think you saw me. Or was I mistaken and that was someone elses FD?
02-21-05, 04:11 PM
#792
Rebreaking things
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While that sucks, look on the bright side -you didn't lose the motor.
Have you or Cam considered using a different type of ECU? As I said a few months back when you mentioned you were going to use the wolf (which I felt was relatively untested), the Tec3 and E11v2 have a proven track record and as far as I'm aware of match the wolf feature for feature. Once again I just don't see the benefit of trail breaking in this area when you can get the same features from other units that are further along in their development cycles.
In any event, it sounds like you are getting very good service from Pettit.
Have you or Cam considered using a different type of ECU? As I said a few months back when you mentioned you were going to use the wolf (which I felt was relatively untested), the Tec3 and E11v2 have a proven track record and as far as I'm aware of match the wolf feature for feature. Once again I just don't see the benefit of trail breaking in this area when you can get the same features from other units that are further along in their development cycles.
In any event, it sounds like you are getting very good service from Pettit.
02-21-05, 04:11 PM
#793
I brake boost
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David, I've been trying to keep up with this thread on and off ever since you started it. My question is this... It seems like you've had trouble with that Wolf ecu since the get go. Why did you go with that computer? Why not go with something that has been proven over and over again with rotaries, specially with 20B swaps (ie Microtech)? Just wondering. I'd hate to spend all that money and not having it run to its full potential because the engine management wouldn't run right with the engine itself. And in case you get that computer fixed or replaced, I think you'll always have that worry in the back of your mind. "What if this computer does what my first one did?"
02-21-05, 04:52 PM
#794
Originally Posted by RedR1
David, I thought I saw you driving near Fernadina 2 weeks ago? You drove the opposite direction near the American Beach entrance. I was driving the white FD with the Amemiya undersweep. I flashed my lights at you (no horn) but I dont think you saw me. Or was I mistaken and that was someone elses FD?
02-21-05, 04:53 PM
#795
Originally Posted by FDNewbie
I guess this goes to show that a 20B done right is far from a DIY project, as even the pros who've done about a dozen of them are often left scratching their heads... Good luck w/ everything David. Hope she's up and running 100% soon!
02-21-05, 04:57 PM
#796
Originally Posted by CCarlisi
While that sucks, look on the bright side -you didn't lose the motor.
Have you or Cam considered using a different type of ECU? As I said a few months back when you mentioned you were going to use the wolf (which I felt was relatively untested), the Tec3 and E11v2 have a proven track record and as far as I'm aware of match the wolf feature for feature. Once again I just don't see the benefit of trail breaking in this area when you can get the same features from other units that are further along in their development cycles.
In any event, it sounds like you are getting very good service from Pettit.
Have you or Cam considered using a different type of ECU? As I said a few months back when you mentioned you were going to use the wolf (which I felt was relatively untested), the Tec3 and E11v2 have a proven track record and as far as I'm aware of match the wolf feature for feature. Once again I just don't see the benefit of trail breaking in this area when you can get the same features from other units that are further along in their development cycles.
In any event, it sounds like you are getting very good service from Pettit.
Hopefully Wolf will come thru on this and I'll be happy by the end of the week.
02-21-05, 04:58 PM
#797
Originally Posted by David Hayes
Thanks man. Yes, it is a lot of work. But really, the tuning portion should only take a few hours and should be fun. This has been a bitch.
02-21-05, 05:00 PM
#799
I brake boost
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Originally Posted by David Hayes
Good point (as well as FD Rey's). Yes, we've considered it many a time, especially with stuff like what happened recently. We're now putting our faith in Chris Greene and Wolf Australia to get this over the finish line. The Hal;tach or Mocrotech are good backups but it would require a lot of wiring rework and tuning at this time.
Hopefully Wolf will come thru on this and I'll be happy by the end of the week.
Hopefully Wolf will come thru on this and I'll be happy by the end of the week.
02-21-05, 05:03 PM
#800
Originally Posted by FD Rey
Good luck man and keep us posted. And on your way up make a quick pit stop in Central Florida so we can take a look at your beast. While you're here, you can check out my buddy's T88H 20B powered white FD. It's still getting put together, but you can get a "feel" for it.