Monsterbox

iTrader: (6)

One question:

Why is david even considerinf ra or goopy seals when the motor is only making 600hp. That's not heavy stress race level for a 3 rotor. Use oem seals and problem is solved. Seems like there is way to much overthinking going on here.

David Hayes

iTrader: (6)

Gave up on the DGRR car show? Something we need to talk about Phil?

Yes, good advice, coming from the guy that just made 440 WHP using, wait for it, RA Super Seals. Want to explain to me why you need RA Seals in a 440 HP 2 rotor yet my "only" 675 WHP on a 3 rotor requires no more than OE seals? Go ahead, school me.

Really guys, enough is enough. So far in this thread the recommendations go from OE seals, to ALS, to RX7parts.com, to ceramics. I have been around long enough to know that the seal recommendation of today won't be the one recommended in the future. Your favorites are all fine choices for your application so I say, go ahead and use them. Respectfully I have never asked for a seal recommendation and have already made my choice and am moving forward so no further advice please.

To get the thread back on track, here again is my list of fixes/mods being done:

1) Redo the wiring. Too much suspect wiring throughout the engine bay. It's all coming out and being replaced with better, verified good wiring. It will also be simplified with a number of runs being consolidated and with multiple relays being eliminated. Also attempting to relocate the master fuses and OEM relays out of the engine bay to free up space. Finally, the end result wiring will all be wrapped with the same protective covering TBD. Won't be a complete wire tuck but it will be drastically improved I think.
2) Eliminate the ABS. Time for it to come out and to use the extra space for a custom windshield wiper tank. My current tank is used for the meth injection system as I was originally told back in the day you can use the blue windshield cleaner for meth injection. Found out over time this is a bad idea as the soap in the wiper fluid can and did goop up the filters in the meth lines so I now run a 50/50 water to meth mix, which is not suitable for the wiper system. So I am having a new tank custom made for this purpose and it will be in the ABS location.
3) Install v-mount. Time to solve the coolant temp issues once and for all. We spent some time measuring for a v-mount setup and it is completely doable so we are going for it. We are going to squeeze in as large a radiator as possible on the bottom with two fans to pull air down and then install an intercooler in a flat horizontal position across the top with it sliding into the front bumper. We are going to use an RX8 AC condenser as it has the dryer built into the end tanks, eliminating the space for the current FD dryer and the condenser will be located on top of the radiator,using the airflow of the v-mount setup and the radiator fans to pull cool air through and out of the system. This eliminates the need for the two current AC dedicated fans. Am very psyched to see the result of this and the new lowered temps. Kilo showed me one he just completed on his son's (Kilito) FD and it is killer nice. Looks OEM.
4) Oil Coolers. Going to swap the oil lines to the top of the coolers to eliminate the possibility of the lines getting snagged on something. Noted a slight bend on the right bottom connector most likely from putting the car on a trailer. While we are doing this, the oil lines will be cleaned up to simplify some of the runs.
5) Chase down a few electrical problems. Recent changes on the car have resulted in the AC and blower not working and in the ABS and brake warning lights staying on. The ABS delete will solve that problem (will pull the bulb out on the waring lights) but need to track down and solve the other problems. After seeing the wiring, Kilo thinks he knows why, but we shall see.
6) Brake issue. The brakes are mushy when first pressed and you need to pump them a second time to have a hard pedal. Just replaced the brake fluid with Endless blue dot, so we may have left some air in the system, but I don't think so. Kilo is certain this is a check valve problem so that should be a simple fix.
7) Paint. Time for the 20 year old paint to get a refresh. The prep and paint work is being done by Carlos, across from Kilos'. He does some beautiful work and I am excited to see the results. He's going to use a jet black paint with 3 coats of clear to achieve a deep, wet look. Should be really nice.
8) Rims. Not positive on this but it will probably be time to change to another Forgeline wheel setup. Been working with Forgeline to come up with a wheel solution that will let me run anywhere from a 295 - 335 on the back as I want to do the Modified Mag Tuners Shootout next year and that requires me to run a 295 tire. Also want to go to a wider front tire (will a 275 fit with a rolled lip?) as that will provide better balance for tracking the car so it seems the best option is to sell the current setup and go with something new. Anyone with a wide body interested in the current setup? Let me know as I can sell the rims only (18X9 fronts and 18X12.5 backs) or sell them with the Micheline PS2s. If I swap them out, I am looking at these:

Forgeline: GA3R Forged Aluminum 3-Piece Lightweight Racing Wheel

Forgeline: GA3R Forged Aluminum 3-Piece Lightweight Racing Wheel

So I am asking for your advice on the wheel setup. I have decided to sell what I currently have and go with the GA3s. I am going to do them in a satin black center (Forgeline recommends this over the matte black as the matte finish shows more dirt) with a gloss black outer lip. I'd also like to do a contrasting color stripe on the outer lip but can't decide on what color to use. The conservative choice would be to go with a silver stripe as that would match the car. I however keep getting drawn to doing a red stripe on the outer lip to add a bit of punch to the setup. Here is another rim type with the red stripe:

Forgeline: Welcome to Forgeline Motorsports

So what do you think? Outside of my red spark plug wires this would be the only red on the car which bothers me, but I really like the look.

I also need your help with the front rim widths. The backs are going to be 11.5s as this will allow me to run 295 tires up to 335s. On the front, I'd like to go with as wide as I can and have been told by the track guys I can fit in a 10 inch rim and 275 tires provided I have rolled lips, which I do. So I think this would work but I am leaning to a 10 inch rim with a 265 on the front to give me a lower profile but wide contact patch. What do you think?

Fritz Flynn

iTrader: (263)

As always interesting thoughts on seals

David,
I'd vote for volk or very light weight wheels and go with as much rubber as you can. This is extreme but I'd install wide front fenders as well which I think would also balance out the rear so it would improve both car show results and allow for a balanced/FAST car on track. OH and once that's done a BIG APR GT wing Now with the big wing and fat tires you'll need a killer set of coilovers LOL

Removing the ABS is a tricky business hopefully you are adding dual master cylinders etc..... Brent has a good setup with lots of time spent figuring it out so I'd send a PM his way.

VMIC is the only way to fly and I think you'll be ecstatic with the results

I recall your fittings on the coolers being very low so that's a good move for sure but be sure to secure the lines well and use bushing on the brackets because when the lines hang from the top side they can stress the fittings.

Good luck with the wiring I don't know what to say about that but will pray daily for the outcome of that and everything else to be a wonderful success because we need this car to be tip top for the fall event

PS Just notice you're repainting so DEFINITELY go with wide front fenders and stop effing around already

Project88Turbo

iTrader: (22)

David,

The red stripe sets the rims off in a subtle "HEY look at me!" without screaming it like the drift nuts with the DAYGLO orange and green wheels.

I like it!

About your water/methanol injection: Is your setup one of the 3D map types?

As far as Fritz's suggestions ( widebody/big wing): Your car DOES have the goods to back up those LOOKS

Vince

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

I'd second the wide front fenders, even if they are subtle like these:

https://www.rx7club.com/shineautopro...-786216/page7/

But you can already go up to a 10" or 10.5" front wheel with a 285/30/18 without issues. The fender would buy you some offset and balanced stance at least.

Rxmfn7

iTrader: (4)

I agree with the above comments about front fenders. IMO your car looks amazing, but the huge rear arches sort of seem out of place without a wider front. Just my opinion of course, but if you are taking it for paint anyway now would be the time to add those if you chose to. I think a set of Feed fronts would look killer, but even a set of shines OEM looking fronts as Peter posted with 20mm more clearance would help balance it a tad. ( I coincidentally have a set of these I would sell ). For front tires, if you stick with oem fenders I would run a 18x10 wheel with a +48 offset and a 285-30-18. I know you mention 275 or 265, but the only profile available that is close in height is 265/35, which is a bit taller than a 285/30. Youll actually have less clearance issues with the 285/30 and it will balance out the super wide rears a bit better.

BTW I love the GA3R. I actually contacted them about a set for my FD previously, but Im not as baller as you and the price scared me away haha.

allrotor93

iTrader: (126)

digging the wheels...i vote yes

you will just need to do an 11" wheel on the back so you can do a 315 or a 285. they can get the offsets correct and you can push it to the fenders.

Monsterbox

iTrader: (6)

At least I bought the engine used and knew what I was getting into not to mention all the work on my car was done by myself. Ra seals are unnecessary for my application and when I rebuild I will go oem.

R-R-Rx7

iTrader: (24)

A few older fds i experienced suffered from a bad servo based on ur description. Keep that in mind

Leeroy_25

Hi David,
Sorry to hear about your engine troubles.. Been watching this thread on and off for a while now as I am building my own 3 rotor currently. One quick question as I picked up on something you wrote recently. What did you do about the OMP on your 20B setup? have you managed to run the 20B electric one using your ECU? I am going to be running an older microtech system and as far as I can tell so far it will not operate the Electric OMP's so I am thinking of maybe some kind of mechanical set-up or trying to convert an electric one to mechanical if possible..

Cheers
Lee

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

David,
A nice thing about the 20mm wider fenders is, you could do a 10.5 or 11" wheel up front, and put on a 295 or maybe a 305/30 up front at the track, which would let you do a 295, 305, 313, or 335 at the rear with reasonable balance.

Those are the only (IMO) front fenders that look right. Everything else messed with the design somehow, either changing the fender vent (FEED, Ronin), or adding a hard crease to the fender line (Burnout).

David Hayes

iTrader: (6)

Okay. Not sure how the "I do all the work myself" has a bearing on my build but putting that aside, what specific data do you have to support OE seals are best for my application? Not opinion, but actual data?

For which issue on the car?

With Microtech, you don't have a good option to run the OMP. With the Haltech PS2000, it directly controls the OMP and you can set a linear value as a start and stop %, so you get a variable rate of control on the OMP. With the Microtech, there are very limited options. What Kilo did for me was to disconnect the wiring from the OMP and the internally set the motor to flow one rate of oil. This rate was determined by idling the engine and slowly turning the screw in the inside of the OMP to a rate that didn't smoke. So, we started with too much oil and worked our way back to a level that provided oil but didn't smoke. The downside to this is you on mix and one rate and that rate is a bit too much when at idle and not enough under WOT. Then again, the engine wasn't harmed by this and the majority of miles on the car were with the Microtech installed.

Hope this helps.


Kinda liking this idea. Didn't know an OEM looking option existed for the front fenders but those look pretty good. Thanks for the recommendation.

So if you were going with those, what do you recommend for a rim width and tire size for daily driving?

R-R-Rx7

iTrader: (24)

The mushy feeling that requires stepping on the brake pedal twice

David Hayes

iTrader: (6)

Got it. We may be speaking of the same thing then, the valve that is in the hose attached to the brake cylinder? When I first step on the brake, the response is bad. Not quite mushy but not much brake and the pedal doesn't sink to the floor. It just feels wrong though. Press on it a second time, then you get a hard firm pedal.

Fritz and Peter, do you still have your ABS? I think I need to pm Brent on this as I don't want to create an issue.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

Both Fritz and I still have ABS... I'm running a 929 MC, not sure about Fritz.

David, you may be losing the check valve in the line to the brake booster. While we were at the track, the feed line from the UIM to the hardline on the firewall ripped while I was coming in to T10!!

The symptom is not a mushy pedal, but sort of a hard one with very little brake (because the power assist is gone)... if the check valve breaks, the motor can essentially "suck" the power assist right out of the booster.

Fritz Flynn

iTrader: (263)

David,
When the pads get thin the pistons retract further in so your pedal will feel funny until the brake pistons push the retracted pads against the rotor which could be the weird sensation you are experiencing of soft initial pedal travel followed by normal braking.

It's also called knock back and it's a bigger problem the thicker your pads are which is why I always tap up my pedal to 1st make sure I have pressure and second to make sure the pads are as close to the rotors as possible so I have immediate braking force. 10nths of the second of late pedal response at 150mph can change how where and when you may turn in so it's critical to have a solid pedal to keep your turn in etc.... consistent.

David Hayes

iTrader: (6)

I think I have to go with Peter on this one, or it's the check valve. The pads on the car, both front and back, are all about 90%. It's like Peter said, the pedal feels firm but no brakes, and then you press again and they work great. Kilo is pulling the line off the brake booster to inspect and replace.

So onward and upward and back to a few tire questions. I think I will go with what Peter recommends and Fritz says to "effing do it" , or the Shine front fenders that add 20mm. So what size rim and tire setup should I run? I'm speaking for daily driving and then occasional track use. It's unlikely I'll go with two different tire sizes (one for the street and one for the track) so is there a compromise size? What do you think? It's also likely I can get a good deal on some Toyo R888s. Anyone have experience with these? I'd plan on using them for both street and track driving as I rarely if every drive the car in the rain but another option is just to keep my Michelin PS2s and but a new set for the front.

What do you think?

Fritz Flynn

iTrader: (263)

Yep if it's a super hard pedal it's a booster issue for sure, I thought it was funny soft not funny hard

DO NOT get 888s they are super noisy and aren't that great on track.

I vote for 315s out back and 315s up front and that's a compromise because the car with even 400 HP could use 335s. It's great having the same size on all four wheels for swapping them around for many reasons but especially for track use because the left rear takes a pounding. For this tire size I'd go with some michelin pilot sports.

With all this grip you'll need to make lots of other changes like fat sways and stiff springs and since it's a DD type car you'll have to spend some dollars on some JRZs or something similar so they feel good with the stiff springs (1000 all the way around hehe).

Don't forget the EFFING WING!

Islander

iTrader: (6)

Wheel choice looks nice. Get 12's out back and 10.5's up front like I have. Im running a 335 rear and 285 front. And with my feed front fenders a 315 could fit nicely. Good luck with the build. Cant wait to drive it again.

David Hayes

iTrader: (6)

Well bummer on the Toyos but thanks for the feedback. I will stick with the Michelin PS2s then.

Still trying to figure out what's best for me on the sizing of the rims. The car will see daily driving and then a handful of track events each year, with my guess being around 6 or so. I really want to stay with the 335s on the back as they fill out the rears well. Had some 315s on there and they just didn't look good.

As you guys have talked me into the Shine fenders up front, what is the new recommended rim and tire size? 10.5s and what? I think Peter was saying 295s but 315s Fritz? That makes me think of this:



Am I wrong?

I have upgraded sway bars on the car now but the coilovers are only mid grade Tiens. One step at a time. And as to the "effing wing" I know that will really help but I am just not a wing guy. Don't see that happening.

Gotta go with 11.5s on the rear as I need to be able to run a 295 tire for the Modified mag tuner shootout and 12s won't do the job. The 11.5 will span from 295 up to 335 says Forgeline.

Next time you drive, it should be bigger and better. Watch out for that front end though

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

Those fenders aren't among the widest (but they are the best looking), so I'm not sure how wide you could go.

295 will be perfect on a 10.5" wheel, and I KNOW that will work. 315 would work on a 10.5, but more optimal on an 11" wheel. You could also run the 295/30 on the 11" wheel.

An inch is 25.4 mm. I know that a 10" +45 would work on stock fenders (though most use +50). For an 11" wheel, you could use the same backspacing as the 10" +50, and end up with the same clearance in the front as a 10" +45, once you ad the 20mm extra fender.

315 is a BIG tire though... 30mm nominally than a 285 (maybe more in reality). It's also a half an inch taller. It would be close. I've also heard that to run a 315, you've got to trim a bit of the frame up front for clearance at full lock. You still have power steering right?

I'd check with Shine on what's reasonable (including offsets), but you might want to run an 11" wheel with a 295/30/18. Especially since the CF fender will have an inner lip that can't be rolled like a stock fender, but could probably be trimmed a bit.

PS2's come in 295, 315, and 335 thankfully.

Rxmfn7

iTrader: (4)

For reference, I had fitted a 18x9.5 +22 up front with those shine fenders and outside clearance was good and it looked flush, to help give you an idea of where you may want to be with your setup. I know you'll want to run wider, but you can use that date to calculate where you want your wheel to end up sitting. Off the top of my head a 18x10.5 +35 would put you at the same outside edge as my 9.5 +22. But Id probably step it in more towards a +40-45 just to be safe, and keep your scrub radius closer to stock.

jjshaloam

iTrader: (5)

What sway bar do you have on the front? Did you have to modify the oil pan? The upgraded one I tried hit the oil pan, if I remember right.

David Hayes

iTrader: (6)

Well, thought I had a Pettit Racing one but I see they don't carry them anymore so either they stopped selling them or I am mistaken. Was charged for one so who knows.

With what I have, I didn't have to modify the oil pan.

David Hayes

iTrader: (6)

Thanks to Rxmfn7 for his help in securing a set of the Shine front fenders with the extra 20mm clearance. I really appreciate it and look forward to seeing them on the car.

I'm thinking the way to go on the front is to run a 18 X 10.5 rim with some 295s on them. Leaving the offsets to Forgeline unless you guys have a recommendation (Lenny sent yours to Forgeline). On the backs, it will be an 18 X 11.5 with 335s and 295s for the Modified event. Have asked Forgeline to figure out the offsets for those.

And a thanks to all of you that rated this thread a "5". Don't know what happened but we are now down to a "2 star" rating so there is either a bug in the software or a lot of counter voting going on. Oh well such is life.

Onward.