Trochoid
02-01-08, 08:03 PM
#1
Trochoid
Let me preface this by saying I have a lot of respect for trochoid (Scott)'s knowledge and the help he brings people on the forum.
Nevertheless, this is a story which must be told. I had done some business with him in the past that it hadn't turned out badly, but this is just absurd.
Here's the Novel I wrote in a PM to a friend of mine, so I don't have to re-type the whole thing:
So I spoke to him today. He did indeed spend the money that he got for the rims.
He says that he is trying to sell his van and some more parts to make my cash. I don't want to believe him but at this point don't have much of a choice. It's prohibitively expensive to hire a lawyer, though I'm going to do it if he doesn't cough up the money soon.
The way I see it, it doesn't matter what excuses he has (pain meds, bills for the house, etc...) he didn't have the right to spend the money. The first batch of money wasn't meant to be "his" until I got what I paid for - rims, powdercoated and polished with tires on them delivered to me. The second batch of money wasn't even supposed to GO to him, it was supposed to be wired from the buyer directly to ReSpeed, but he took a money order for it and spent it.
This isn't right, and I have to let everyone know, even if he's a very respected member of the 1st Gen section. $1000 isn't a small amount to me, I don't make a ton, and it took me a while to save that up, and now I have nothing to show for it.
Jon
Nevertheless, this is a story which must be told. I had done some business with him in the past that it hadn't turned out badly, but this is just absurd.
Here's the Novel I wrote in a PM to a friend of mine, so I don't have to re-type the whole thing:
Originally Posted by vipernicus42
Over a year ago (November 06) I bought a pair of 83LE rims that were destined for my 7 off a fellow forum member. That transaction went very well, but it's what occurred after that has me up in a knot.
trochoid (Scott) is a respected member of the 1st Gen Section and I'd had him do some powdercoating work for me before. Anyone who has been following my project saw me get all the rad panels, coolant tubes, battery tray, pulleys etc... from my engine bay powdercoated - that was trochoid. I also had gotten a set of + rims from him that he had powdercoated quite nicely.
So knowing that, I had the seller ship my 83LE rims directly to trochoid for powdercoating. The idea was that I wanted the lips polished but the centres done in gloss black powder, then the whole thing clear coated and a set of four Sumitomo HTR 200s installed on them. The price for all this, he asked, was 750USD, and I paid it. At the time the exchange made that over a thousand bucks Canadian, over and above the 350USD I paid for the rims themselves, but it was exactly the look I wanted so I went for it and paid him up front over a span of about a month.
That's when things went bad. He didn't touch the rims for almost a year. They were originally supposed to be ready before spring 07 and he was going to be driving up to Canada with a shell for dj55b (Sam, a story on its own!) and would bring the rims with him so I wouldn't have to pay shipping.
Needless to say, when I put the car away in fall 07 and still didn't have my rims I was getting a little impatient. I knew he was an old man and had his share of problems, but I found out that he had SPENT all the money I had sent him and the only thing he had done to the rims was to sandblast the centres with equipment he already had available.
He kept giving me the runaround about when things would progress further but it started to be very clear that they wouldn't.
So being the rather fair guy I am, I decided to try and re-work the deal and give him a chance.
I had since decided that the 83LE rims would get in the way of an eventual big brake upgrade, and during the time trochoid had burned not doing anything, Billy from ReSpeed released the new Rack and Pinion conversion kits.
So the new deal was laid out: A rack and pinion conversion kit including a 15:1 rack costs about $1000. Trochoid owed me $750 and the rims could be sold for about $350 so that meant that between the money he owed me and the rims he had, he could just buy me the rack.
So I gave him permission to sell the rims, on the condition that the money be wired straight to billy at respeed as a down payment for the rack kit. Trochoid would then sell one of his numerous "extra" vehicles or do work around his area to make up the money he had spent, and send that to billy so that come this spring I could have my rack and pinion kit waiting when the car comes out of storage April 08.
Last week he recieved payment for the rims. That's right. He accepted a money order for the rims. I only found out about it because I heard about someone buying them. When I confronted him about it, he said he had the money order in his posession, he had just been too couch-ridden with back pain to get to the bank, cash it and paypal the money over.
So now he has sold my rims and still hasn't sent THAT money to billy, let alone the 750 he owes me.
It's WAY too late to file a paypal dispute over it, and the cost to travel down to MO, missing work, to get a lawyer and take him to court over $1000 would be way too much.
I'm pretty much out of options. I'm sick and tired of his excuses. I've dumped about $1500CDN into this mess with the exchange rates as poor as they were at the time and now I have absolutely nothing to show for it.
I haven't called him out publicly on the forum because I know what a shitstorm that will create, and banning him from the forum would take away his only real way of selling rotary-related parts to make up the money he owes me.
I just don't know what to do. Any ideas guys? I'm not the only person who has had trouble. dj55b (Sam) went through hell to get his shell, and ended up flying down to trochoid's place, having to finish alot of body work himself that trochoid was supposed to have done, renting a truck and trailer and driving it home all at his own expense. Trochoid still owes him money but at least Sam has something to show for it - he got his shell. I got nothing and I *really* want to find a way to get trochoid to own up and get me either the $1100 ($750 I paid + $350 he got for the rims) or get him to buy me a rack conversion kit with a 15:1 rack.
I almost chewed him out in his thread that he posted today with the tutorial on modding the fender lip. If he has enough energy to do that, then he's got enough energy to wire the ******* money to billy goddamit!!!
trochoid (Scott) is a respected member of the 1st Gen Section and I'd had him do some powdercoating work for me before. Anyone who has been following my project saw me get all the rad panels, coolant tubes, battery tray, pulleys etc... from my engine bay powdercoated - that was trochoid. I also had gotten a set of + rims from him that he had powdercoated quite nicely.
So knowing that, I had the seller ship my 83LE rims directly to trochoid for powdercoating. The idea was that I wanted the lips polished but the centres done in gloss black powder, then the whole thing clear coated and a set of four Sumitomo HTR 200s installed on them. The price for all this, he asked, was 750USD, and I paid it. At the time the exchange made that over a thousand bucks Canadian, over and above the 350USD I paid for the rims themselves, but it was exactly the look I wanted so I went for it and paid him up front over a span of about a month.
That's when things went bad. He didn't touch the rims for almost a year. They were originally supposed to be ready before spring 07 and he was going to be driving up to Canada with a shell for dj55b (Sam, a story on its own!) and would bring the rims with him so I wouldn't have to pay shipping.
Needless to say, when I put the car away in fall 07 and still didn't have my rims I was getting a little impatient. I knew he was an old man and had his share of problems, but I found out that he had SPENT all the money I had sent him and the only thing he had done to the rims was to sandblast the centres with equipment he already had available.
He kept giving me the runaround about when things would progress further but it started to be very clear that they wouldn't.
So being the rather fair guy I am, I decided to try and re-work the deal and give him a chance.
I had since decided that the 83LE rims would get in the way of an eventual big brake upgrade, and during the time trochoid had burned not doing anything, Billy from ReSpeed released the new Rack and Pinion conversion kits.
So the new deal was laid out: A rack and pinion conversion kit including a 15:1 rack costs about $1000. Trochoid owed me $750 and the rims could be sold for about $350 so that meant that between the money he owed me and the rims he had, he could just buy me the rack.
So I gave him permission to sell the rims, on the condition that the money be wired straight to billy at respeed as a down payment for the rack kit. Trochoid would then sell one of his numerous "extra" vehicles or do work around his area to make up the money he had spent, and send that to billy so that come this spring I could have my rack and pinion kit waiting when the car comes out of storage April 08.
Last week he recieved payment for the rims. That's right. He accepted a money order for the rims. I only found out about it because I heard about someone buying them. When I confronted him about it, he said he had the money order in his posession, he had just been too couch-ridden with back pain to get to the bank, cash it and paypal the money over.
So now he has sold my rims and still hasn't sent THAT money to billy, let alone the 750 he owes me.
It's WAY too late to file a paypal dispute over it, and the cost to travel down to MO, missing work, to get a lawyer and take him to court over $1000 would be way too much.
I'm pretty much out of options. I'm sick and tired of his excuses. I've dumped about $1500CDN into this mess with the exchange rates as poor as they were at the time and now I have absolutely nothing to show for it.
I haven't called him out publicly on the forum because I know what a shitstorm that will create, and banning him from the forum would take away his only real way of selling rotary-related parts to make up the money he owes me.
I just don't know what to do. Any ideas guys? I'm not the only person who has had trouble. dj55b (Sam) went through hell to get his shell, and ended up flying down to trochoid's place, having to finish alot of body work himself that trochoid was supposed to have done, renting a truck and trailer and driving it home all at his own expense. Trochoid still owes him money but at least Sam has something to show for it - he got his shell. I got nothing and I *really* want to find a way to get trochoid to own up and get me either the $1100 ($750 I paid + $350 he got for the rims) or get him to buy me a rack conversion kit with a 15:1 rack.
I almost chewed him out in his thread that he posted today with the tutorial on modding the fender lip. If he has enough energy to do that, then he's got enough energy to wire the ******* money to billy goddamit!!!
So I spoke to him today. He did indeed spend the money that he got for the rims.
He says that he is trying to sell his van and some more parts to make my cash. I don't want to believe him but at this point don't have much of a choice. It's prohibitively expensive to hire a lawyer, though I'm going to do it if he doesn't cough up the money soon.
The way I see it, it doesn't matter what excuses he has (pain meds, bills for the house, etc...) he didn't have the right to spend the money. The first batch of money wasn't meant to be "his" until I got what I paid for - rims, powdercoated and polished with tires on them delivered to me. The second batch of money wasn't even supposed to GO to him, it was supposed to be wired from the buyer directly to ReSpeed, but he took a money order for it and spent it.
This isn't right, and I have to let everyone know, even if he's a very respected member of the 1st Gen section. $1000 isn't a small amount to me, I don't make a ton, and it took me a while to save that up, and now I have nothing to show for it.
Jon
02-01-08, 08:11 PM
#2
The problem with doing business through the forum is...
... that no matter how respected or knowledgeable someone is on here, you can never guarantee that they're not going to screw you.
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...41#post7816341
Case in point. I post this today because I'm sick of it. I still respect him for his knowledge and what he brings to the 1st gen section, but this is not how you do business.
I held off making this post for a long time, because I don't want to smear the good name of anyone on here, but this is getting ridiculous.
So Scott, if you're reading this, get me my money. I'm serious.
Jon
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...41#post7816341
Case in point. I post this today because I'm sick of it. I still respect him for his knowledge and what he brings to the 1st gen section, but this is not how you do business.
I held off making this post for a long time, because I don't want to smear the good name of anyone on here, but this is getting ridiculous.
So Scott, if you're reading this, get me my money. I'm serious.
Jon
02-01-08, 08:27 PM
#4
Clutchless in San Antonio
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wow....I don't know what to say. I'm shocked. I've always looked up to Trochoid and his talents. About to buy some windshield trim, wife gave me the go-ahead. But this is really surprising!
I went through something similar on my forum. It turned ugly...quick. I hope both parties come out of this with the original intentions and it gets resolved. Sorry to hear about this Vipernicus if all stated is true(not implying anything).
I went through something similar on my forum. It turned ugly...quick. I hope both parties come out of this with the original intentions and it gets resolved. Sorry to hear about this Vipernicus if all stated is true(not implying anything).
02-01-08, 09:54 PM
#7
I spend a lot of time on the Rx7Club and know quite a few people on here. All I can say is not cool.... AT ALL. Jon, I hope that this gets worked out. You were one of the first guys that I did business with on the Rx7club when you picked up a certain Canadian only antenna for me at Radioshack. You sent it to me and I used it on my 85 GS for a long time. You did all that for me just because you were a nice guy. You didn't even ask for any money for your trouble. That's what makes a car club a car club.
Jamie
Jamie
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02-01-08, 10:23 PM
#10
djessence
This sounds very similar to alot of **** that went down with unnamed shop/company in Albertta with alot of the canadian/albertan guys.
I can feel your frustration and i honestly dont know what you can do. Tough to eat 1500 dollars for sure. Might still be worth it to raise a dispute with paypal....Cant hurt anyways
I can feel your frustration and i honestly dont know what you can do. Tough to eat 1500 dollars for sure. Might still be worth it to raise a dispute with paypal....Cant hurt anyways
02-01-08, 10:34 PM
#12
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
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Yes! Just doesnt seem right that one of the most looked upto very well respected member of this forum would pull something like that! Good luck vipernicus getting your cash!
02-01-08, 11:08 PM
#14
Thanks for the support guys.
Like I said, I can't fault him for his contributions here, but it really brings "Caveat Emptor" to mind.
Never pay entirely up front for service if you can help it. Split it 60/40 for start / completion or delivery. Or have -some- sort of assurance.
Jon
Like I said, I can't fault him for his contributions here, but it really brings "Caveat Emptor" to mind.
Never pay entirely up front for service if you can help it. Split it 60/40 for start / completion or delivery. Or have -some- sort of assurance.
Jon
02-01-08, 11:10 PM
#15
And thanks Jamie, I had forgotten about that one! I still run that same antenna on mine. I tried finding one for my friend Marc's project recently and nope, they're totally gone here too.
I also remember you helping me get my hands on an Anti-Afterburn Valve hose when I needed one in my stock carb days.
Give and take, give and take
Jon
I also remember you helping me get my hands on an Anti-Afterburn Valve hose when I needed one in my stock carb days.
Give and take, give and take
Jon
Last edited by vipernicus42; 02-02-08 at 10:16 AM.
02-02-08, 01:12 AM
#17
MattG FTW!!!!!
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Hey Jon,
You are in a pickle, its gotten to the point now where its not the money, its the fact that this has happened to you, and is being caused by another 7 owner.
You are a very honest guy, and a straight shooter. You and I worked out that deal on the jets and it went very smooth, even though there was that mis-hap with the UPS shipment, but it worked out fine. You trusted me with your money on a promise that I would half them with you. I felt honored that you trusted me without ever meeting me in person. It felt like my word meant something.
I know it has to have taken a lot for you not to spill the beans on this, as it would be very hard for anyone not too. I feel that by doing this and biting your lip and holding out faith that it makes you the better man.
For doing this I have MORE respect for you than I already had.
I think that no good deed, doesnt get repaid, and that those who do bad deeds get it back ten-fold.
I can only hope that a solution will come from this thread, and not a bunch of name calling, he said she said, childish behavior.
You are in a pickle, its gotten to the point now where its not the money, its the fact that this has happened to you, and is being caused by another 7 owner.
You are a very honest guy, and a straight shooter. You and I worked out that deal on the jets and it went very smooth, even though there was that mis-hap with the UPS shipment, but it worked out fine. You trusted me with your money on a promise that I would half them with you. I felt honored that you trusted me without ever meeting me in person. It felt like my word meant something.
I know it has to have taken a lot for you not to spill the beans on this, as it would be very hard for anyone not too. I feel that by doing this and biting your lip and holding out faith that it makes you the better man.
For doing this I have MORE respect for you than I already had.
I think that no good deed, doesnt get repaid, and that those who do bad deeds get it back ten-fold.
I can only hope that a solution will come from this thread, and not a bunch of name calling, he said she said, childish behavior.
02-02-08, 01:17 AM
#18
MattG FTW!!!!!
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Hey Jon,
You are in a pickle, its gotten to the point now where its not the money, its the fact that this has happened to you, and is being caused by another 7 owner.
You are a very honest guy, and a straight shooter. You and I worked out that deal on the jets and it went very smooth, even though there was that mis-hap with the UPS shipment, but it worked out fine. You trusted me with your money on a promise that I would half them with you. I felt honored that you trusted me without ever meeting me in person. It felt like my word meant something.
I know it has to have taken a lot for you not to spill the beans on this, as it would be very hard for anyone not too. I feel that by doing this and biting your lip and holding out faith that it makes you the better man.
For doing this I have MORE respect for you than I already had.
I think that no good deed, doesnt get repaid, and that those who do bad deeds get it back ten-fold.
I can only hope that a solution will come from this thread, and not a bunch of name calling, he said she said, childish behavior.
You are in a pickle, its gotten to the point now where its not the money, its the fact that this has happened to you, and is being caused by another 7 owner.
You are a very honest guy, and a straight shooter. You and I worked out that deal on the jets and it went very smooth, even though there was that mis-hap with the UPS shipment, but it worked out fine. You trusted me with your money on a promise that I would half them with you. I felt honored that you trusted me without ever meeting me in person. It felt like my word meant something.
I know it has to have taken a lot for you not to spill the beans on this, as it would be very hard for anyone not too. I feel that by doing this and biting your lip and holding out faith that it makes you the better man.
For doing this I have MORE respect for you than I already had.
I think that no good deed, doesnt get repaid, and that those who do bad deeds get it back ten-fold.
I can only hope that a solution will come from this thread, and not a bunch of name calling, he said she said, childish behavior.
02-02-08, 01:39 AM
#19
Wrkn Toyota, Rootn Wankel
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Hmmm, I always hate to see stuff like this.
Because ussually it could have been avoided if someone hadn't procrastinated or that there was more follow-up or whatever.
The problem with this situations isn't how they start, cuz they start out normal enough... its that they don't get taken care of and in the end it makes a solution very difficult and the relationship between people that much more strained...
Good luck to both of you...
Because ussually it could have been avoided if someone hadn't procrastinated or that there was more follow-up or whatever.
The problem with this situations isn't how they start, cuz they start out normal enough... its that they don't get taken care of and in the end it makes a solution very difficult and the relationship between people that much more strained...
Good luck to both of you...
02-02-08, 01:58 AM
#20
Senior Member
I don't blame you for airing your grievances (much like Festivus) we know Trochoid is an active member of the forum so let's hope he chimes in tell his side of the story soon. I hope you lot can get this sorted ASAP.
02-02-08, 05:48 AM
#22
Well put Ken and this is a personal matter that would be best not played out on the forum. After all, it is hard for us to know all the details, even if we wanted to play judge. And I don't think it's a good idea to play it out so everybody knows "who's dad is cheating on who's mom", as Ken puts it. It's just not that kind of forum. So I hope Trochoid and Jon can work this out on their own and we can get back to talking about fan clutches, spark plugs, carbs and all that important stuff.
02-02-08, 07:41 AM
#23
Nikki-Modder Rex-Rodder
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First of all, as I've basically committed myself to making carbs as my ONLY source of income at the moment, (and my reserves are quickly being depleted!) I absolutely MUST be paid up front.
Second of all, if someone with a very low threshold for tolerance becomes dissatisfied about a transaction with me, even though you and many others here know full well I would remedy it straight away, he may not know that, and if he jumped the gun and decided to air out dirty laundry like this on the forum, I'd be DONE.
I even wrote on my website to contact me specifically and give me time to work out any problems you may have instead of bringing it to my forum because being on the receiving end of a thread like this pretty much pegs you as questionable in many peoples minds even after everything is cleared up.
Robert consistently getting bashed from NON-customers on the forum because of a few problems he had showed me that.
Please don't let your personal "business gone bad" set the precedence for forum behavior regarding these things. It's hard enough just trying to do business. My opinion is that this is an isolated incident, and he isn't any more likely to pay you or clean up this business situation after you've wiped the forum with his dirty laundry.
02-02-08, 07:58 AM
#24
I didn't want to say anything in this thread, but seeing how one of the "respected" members here (look up a few post) decided for some reason that he would try and shaft me. So I feel for you Jon, and I know what your going through. I too spent over 6 months trying to resolve a problem that this person (you know who you are) could have just been up front with me, instead of jerking me around and telling me lies, it wouldn't have escalated to me calling him out on the forum. I know you wanted to get this resolved without haveing to go public, but it makes you wonder. If he did this to you, then who else got shafted and didn't speek up because they felt no one would believe them? So this is my recommendation to Scott. If you feel that this can be resolved without everyone in the forum knowing about it, then try and satisfy the man, and honor your deal with him.
