Trochoid
02-04-08, 06:19 PM
#77
If he'd like to post his side, the "pitchfork weilding villagers" will listen.
The fact of the matter is that he could have posted when this thread was 2-3 posts, long before it rallied support. His silence is what has been hurting him. He knew the thread was here moments after I posted it, and a quick response would have helped him.
Still, *any* response would help him because there are lots of people saying "let's wait to hear trochoid's side".
The problem is that there is no "his side"... or rather, his side doesn't differ from mine in description. I've given him every conceivable chance I could have, right up to scrapping the original deal so that we could work out something beneficial to both parties when it became clear that he wasn't physically able to "get down on the floor and do all that polishing by hand".
I really don't think it's unreasonable to expect him to speak for himself, whether or not this thread is starting to bear the resemblance of a mob of villagers.
Jon
The fact of the matter is that he could have posted when this thread was 2-3 posts, long before it rallied support. His silence is what has been hurting him. He knew the thread was here moments after I posted it, and a quick response would have helped him.
Still, *any* response would help him because there are lots of people saying "let's wait to hear trochoid's side".
The problem is that there is no "his side"... or rather, his side doesn't differ from mine in description. I've given him every conceivable chance I could have, right up to scrapping the original deal so that we could work out something beneficial to both parties when it became clear that he wasn't physically able to "get down on the floor and do all that polishing by hand".
I really don't think it's unreasonable to expect him to speak for himself, whether or not this thread is starting to bear the resemblance of a mob of villagers.
Jon
02-05-08, 11:34 AM
#82
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I hate to be on anyones side in a situation like this, but I think its kinda bad form to have a thread that discusses these sorts of business dealings on the main section of the forum. That is what the ggbg section is for, sullying peoples reps (albeit justified), and really, to say that its good that its on here instead of buried in the ggbg section, where nobody can read it, is kinda playing it the wrong way.
What would you suggest--that vipernicus say "oh well, he is ignorning me, I guess I should shut up about it now and eat the loss..." Come on man....that isnt reasonable by any means.
Should his admittedly sound and relavent tecnical advice and him, as a good advisor, be lessened by the fact that he can't seem to keep his **** straight?
2--let's flip that coin--should his obviously inappropriate handling of this situation be lessened because of the great advice he gives?? I dont think it should. Do you? Let's be honest about this.
The only obvious answer is that someone's good deeds do not mean that they can do bad things without consequences. I understand that he is a very respected member of this forum but not handling this deal is wrong no matter who you are. Are his broken promises suddenly not as broken because he can tell people a wealth of info about their cars?? I dont think so.
How can you expect Trochoid to post up on this? You guys are like the pitchfork and torch carrying villagers, and you expect Frankenstein's monster to pop out and be like "wuzzup?"?
Bottom line--when you have this long, and this many chances to work with the guy you screwed, and you choose not to take any of them to make it right, you dont have any business expecting anything less than a thread like this. And no one, yourself included, should be complaining about "pitchfork weilding villagers"--everyone in this thread has been polite and has stated that they are waiting to see what he has to say. No one has hung him out to dry. No one is insulting him. No one is calling for his head on a plate. EVERYONE is saying "wow, I want to hear what he has to say about this". He clearly knows of the problem. He obviously knows of the threads. And he has the same response he has had throughout this whole incident--he hasnt taken care of anything. That creates a problem.
Finally, no one expects him to say "wazzup". What we DO expect is for someone who is supposed to have all this integrity to act with integrity. Why in the world do you seem to think that it is too much to expect?
02-05-08, 12:08 PM
#83
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To add to the above, he has been on this forum today. The last two days before today he was on the forum. This is the third day he has been on the forum but he has stopped posting. Anyone care to venture a guess why? I think I know the answer--because several people have posted in threads he was active in, asking him to come here and address this situation. The posts by other people were made on 2/2 and that was the last day he posted here. So, at least unless we hear otherwise from him, it appears that he is even willing to stop posting because he doesnt want to have this follow him around.
Respected, yes, I understand that. But at what point does this forum need to stop giving special treatment because of someone's prior reputation and address the reputation they are earning right now in an appropriate manner? Think about it--if someone who did not have his history here did this same thing to two members, what would everyone's reaction have been? With all due respect, I think that he has been afforded enough generosity because of his reputation already. I think it is time to handle the issue.
Respected, yes, I understand that. But at what point does this forum need to stop giving special treatment because of someone's prior reputation and address the reputation they are earning right now in an appropriate manner? Think about it--if someone who did not have his history here did this same thing to two members, what would everyone's reaction have been? With all due respect, I think that he has been afforded enough generosity because of his reputation already. I think it is time to handle the issue.
02-05-08, 12:26 PM
#84
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
02-05-08, 01:24 PM
#85
Nikki-Modder Rex-Rodder
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Should his admittedly sound and relavent tecnical advice and him, as a good advisor, be lessened by the fact that he can't seem to keep his **** straight?
The only obvious answer is that someone's good deeds do not mean that they can do bad things without consequences. I understand that he is a very respected member of this forum but not handling this deal is wrong no matter who you are. Are his broken promises suddenly not as broken because he can tell people a wealth of info about their cars??
02-05-08, 10:01 PM
#88
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It is getting quite clear that he is not going to handle this. As much as I hate to say this I think it may be time to consider other options, such as legal action. The sad part of this is that it amounts to theft, plain and simple. Not once but twice. Once you have an agreement that involves money or property changing hands and one side doesnt live up to their end of that agreement, it becomes a criminal act. And in pretty much every state, there is enough money involved that this would be grand larceny. I dont know if it was his intention to defraud from the start--one can only hope not, but since he refuses to speak up even privately to Jon no one will know.
I think it is time that you consider protecting yourself and not worry about his reputation. He made this happen, and then he made it drag on all this time....and now, he has made this thread necessary because he refuses to address it with you. Your last agreement with him was to send that money from the wheels to the other party--and he thought nothing of spending your money. Make no mistake, it IS your money, from the sale of YOUR rims. beyond all the rest of this mess, that to top it all off is just plain inexcuseable. He might as well have just reached into your wallet and told you while he was doing it as far as I am concerned.
Maybe it is time to consider some options, Jon. I really wish you the best in getting this resolved. But the longer you wait, the lower your chances of getting this fixed.
I think it is time that you consider protecting yourself and not worry about his reputation. He made this happen, and then he made it drag on all this time....and now, he has made this thread necessary because he refuses to address it with you. Your last agreement with him was to send that money from the wheels to the other party--and he thought nothing of spending your money. Make no mistake, it IS your money, from the sale of YOUR rims. beyond all the rest of this mess, that to top it all off is just plain inexcuseable. He might as well have just reached into your wallet and told you while he was doing it as far as I am concerned.
Maybe it is time to consider some options, Jon. I really wish you the best in getting this resolved. But the longer you wait, the lower your chances of getting this fixed.
02-05-08, 10:04 PM
#89
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Also, let's not get into insulting. This is a crappy deal, yes, but I am quite certain that this isnt about "getting a life". There is enough going on with this issue without all that extra imported drama. Thanks.
02-05-08, 10:59 PM
#92
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To me "getting a life" implies being responsible and absolutely nothing else. If Trochoid displayed such behavior from the gitgo there would be no "drama" at all.
02-06-08, 07:09 AM
#94
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Satch, roller has an extensive knowledge of the law and knows that this thread could actually be used as evidence of Scott's conscious decision not to make contact with Jon, as it records a chronology of that "non-communication". I think he's simply trying to preserve the thread for what it should be, and not let it be muddled up with any name calling that could be construed as defamation. He's not trying to put you in your place or anything.
02-06-08, 09:38 AM
#95
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Roller-
I made that comment when there was a link to this thread in the gen1 forum. By being in that section it only serves to debase his name and reputation as a technical advisor and intergoogle friend to many of the 1st genners.
I do, and expect many people do (or should), check this section out before I purchase from anybody on the forum, to make sure things are on the upandup with the seller.
I agree with you that this obvious fuckup should not be overlooked because he gives such good advice, I just think there is a place for everything and everything should be in place. I think that trochoid should be put in his place, too, but it should be done here, not out there. It smacks of vigilante justice to do so otherwise.
As a result of a link from the first gen section (although it wasn't there for long), you have people like me (or satch, or latin, NO OFFENSE) posting on something that has zippy to do with us.
I made that comment when there was a link to this thread in the gen1 forum. By being in that section it only serves to debase his name and reputation as a technical advisor and intergoogle friend to many of the 1st genners.
I do, and expect many people do (or should), check this section out before I purchase from anybody on the forum, to make sure things are on the upandup with the seller.
I agree with you that this obvious fuckup should not be overlooked because he gives such good advice, I just think there is a place for everything and everything should be in place. I think that trochoid should be put in his place, too, but it should be done here, not out there. It smacks of vigilante justice to do so otherwise.
As a result of a link from the first gen section (although it wasn't there for long), you have people like me (or satch, or latin, NO OFFENSE) posting on something that has zippy to do with us.
02-06-08, 10:07 AM
#96
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a friend is a friend and money is money, and you dont **** with a friends money. get a lawyer and settle it in court. the longer you let it drag out the less chances you have of recouping your losses.
02-06-08, 10:20 AM
#97
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Roller-
I made that comment when there was a link to this thread in the gen1 forum. By being in that section it only serves to debase his name and reputation as a technical advisor and intergoogle friend to many of the 1st genners.
I do, and expect many people do (or should), check this section out before I purchase from anybody on the forum, to make sure things are on the upandup with the seller.
I agree with you that this obvious fuckup should not be overlooked because he gives such good advice, I just think there is a place for everything and everything should be in place. I think that trochoid should be put in his place, too, but it should be done here, not out there. It smacks of vigilante justice to do so otherwise.
As a result of a link from the first gen section (although it wasn't there for long), you have people like me (or satch, or latin, NO OFFENSE) posting on something that has zippy to do with us.
I made that comment when there was a link to this thread in the gen1 forum. By being in that section it only serves to debase his name and reputation as a technical advisor and intergoogle friend to many of the 1st genners.
I do, and expect many people do (or should), check this section out before I purchase from anybody on the forum, to make sure things are on the upandup with the seller.
I agree with you that this obvious fuckup should not be overlooked because he gives such good advice, I just think there is a place for everything and everything should be in place. I think that trochoid should be put in his place, too, but it should be done here, not out there. It smacks of vigilante justice to do so otherwise.
As a result of a link from the first gen section (although it wasn't there for long), you have people like me (or satch, or latin, NO OFFENSE) posting on something that has zippy to do with us.
First, if you are a member of the FB community, please tell me how one of your own that chooses to screw others over isnt relevant to the rest of the community? Dont you think that having this information would help someone who is thinking of having trochoid do some work for them? think about it--you all know him as a very highly respected member, with a ton of integrity. This, however, is the complete opposite of that. If you knew this about him, would you be as willing to send him $$$ as opposed to if you didnt? This is quite relevant for that reason.
Second, you need to simply read the posts people have made instead of interjecting your own interpretation and putting words into anyone's mouths. No one here posted this with any intention of debasing anyone's name about anything. Since when is telling the truth wrong? Can you honestly answer that for me? In every instance, we see people still talking about how respected he is, and about how much they wish he would just speak up. There is STILL all that respect there, and it is coming from the very same people that you claim are out for "vigilante justice" and "debasing his name and reputation..." Tell me, how can you debase someone's reputation by telling the truth and then saying "youre still a respected member but you need to address this"?? Sorry, I just dont see it. And besides, if this is what he does to someone, why in the world should his reputation not be questioned in the first place? Man, give me a break!
Third, again, you need to really read this thread. Jon made a ton of attempts over a span of more than a YEAR to avoid posting this in public at all, let alone putting it in the 1st gen section! And you have failed to acknowledge any of that. Since you missed that part, I can see how you think this is "vigilante justice", but the truth is that all of this information was already posted--all you needed to do was read it to know it. Jon made every effort to resolve this in a mature, appropriate manner. Why should you blame him for feeling, after more than an entire year goes by with nothing but excuses and broken promises, that this was his best option? At this point, he really has only a couple of options--he could have brought it to the forum like he did or he could seek legal recourse. Why in the world wouldnt someone exhaust all possible means before taking someone to court?? Like I said, you simply needed to read the whole story.
Fourth, this is a community. A lot of people here know each other. That makes this a great resource to get help in such an instance. Why is Jon wrong for going public with this in a section where everyone will see it, and where it is directly relevant to that section? Scott is perhaps the most well known go-to guy in that section for tech questions. If Jon had ANY chance of getting someone to try to talk to Scott on his behalf, then that is the most logical place, dont you think? Again, exhaust all possible alternatives before you take legal action. What is so hard to understand about that? I just dont follow your logic.
Now, let's get to the nuts and bolts here. This thread, and the other thread, would not have even been necessary if Scott came along and handled his business, would they? Is it really Jon's fault that threads were necessary? Or is Scott to blame for this dragging on since last year with no resolution? AGAIN, your reputation is what you make it. And I see a lot of talk about not damaging his reputation, but you fail to understand that NO ONE can damage another person's reputation--it is built on their actions, not words. Think about this--Scott has been around for so long that the instant anyone said something bad about him, where do you think those people are gonna go to check it out? They are gonna talk to Scott, they arent just going to take someone else's word for it! And they havent--thats why everyone is still saying they are waiting until Scott speaks up!
I dont care who you are, what technical know-how you possess, or if your twig and berries are cast in solid gold--if you do someone wrong like this, you dont deserve a spotless reputation....please, at least get that much right. Youre worried about Scott's integrity--well, someone with integrity would have posted in this thread his side of things and tried to work it out a long time ago. Instead, he looks a whole lot more like he's hiding. We have several people sending him PM's, he hasnt answered a single one. Several people have posted in threads that Scott was posting in--his response was to stop posting altogether even though he's still been in here every day since. Mods have contacted him, he wont respond to them. IS THIS YOUR IDEA OF INTEGRITY, OR A REPUTATION THAT NEEDS PROTECTING FROM THE BRUTAL MOB??? If so, please allow me to say that I am glad I wont have to do business with you. Nothing personal, but man, if you cannot see where this is going and how it got there, then I dont know what to tell you. Where I come from someone's integrity and reputation are built on their word, not on where someone posts a feedback thread on a car forum. It's time you realize just how much effort Jon has put into getting a peaceful resolution, and its also time you realize just how much that has been ignored by Scott.
Finally, one last thought before this takes over the entire thread(sorry Jon, I wont be doing this in this thread again as I think this says it all)--you say that something needs to be done. What? What do you think needs to be done? You clearly didnt like the thread in the FB section, what alternative do you have? Oh, and dont say that "everyone should check the feedback forum before buying" because you know damn well that no one--NO ONE--who knows anything about trochoid's reputation on this forum up to this point would even think to search him out in here! If his reputation really is as big as it appears to be then most people would think that was enough. See my point? I sure hope so.
Sorry to all for making that so long, but I felt it needed to be said that way. If anyone has questions about that please feel free to PM me instead of posting as I dont want to derail Jon's thread.
02-06-08, 10:22 AM
#98
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Satch, roller has an extensive knowledge of the law and knows that this thread could actually be used as evidence of Scott's conscious decision not to make contact with Jon, as it records a chronology of that "non-communication". I think he's simply trying to preserve the thread for what it should be, and not let it be muddled up with any name calling that could be construed as defamation. He's not trying to put you in your place or anything.
02-06-08, 05:56 PM
#99
The redirect stays behind for a while and slowly falls off the main page because it doesn't get bumped every time someone makes a post. The idea is that when we move a thread, the original poster has to be able to find it again, so a redirect link is automagically left there for a while. In my case I knew where the threads were, because I moved them myself, but the redirects stayed.
So when you were complaining about this being in the 1st gen section, I was wondering why you were saying that because it hadn't been there for quite a while at that point.
Jon
02-06-08, 06:01 PM
#100
I was wrong because the reason we have a Good Guy / Bad Guy forum is so that this stuff doesn't clog up the main forums. I shouldn't have posted it there, but I was very passionate about the topic and thought the 1st Gen section aught to know.
So I moved the threads here later that day.
I won't have someone stand up for an action that I did that wasn't the appropriate action. Though a lot of what you said does still make a lot of sense otherJon.
Jon