theo481

iTrader: (10)

Hey guys,

I have had a bad experience with waachback. I tried to settle this in private and I even thought I could go through PayPal to try and get some of my money back but nothing happened because PayPal doesn't protect you outside of eBay.

Here is the story, and the relevant forum listing to the purchase of the item. Also here are pictures of the turbo as received.

While still in school I was planning of doing a rebuild to my RX-7, I searched the forum to try and get some good deals with some of the required items.

I came upon the forum that I listed above and asked about the turbo kit. He said that it was still available, and that it had had 5000 miles before the rebuild and that it had been rebuilt about 500 miles ago. I asked about the shaft play and was told that it had a little, but that it was how it was sent back from majestic to him and not to worry about it. Thinking that this was a good deal I bought the kit and the PFC/commander for 2,000 dollars plus shipping.

The kit was delivered while I was still in school, but my parents opened it up and said that it looked like it was all there.

I came home around may 20th, and had a look at the stuff myself.

Everything that I had ordered was thrown into one big box with no *real* padding inside of the box. While in transit (I hope), the box had received some damage and the down pipe was coming through the box and was exposed. I figured nothing of it and took all of the items out.

First thing that I noticed was that nothing had been taped, or capped off during shipping, allowing all of the contents of the box to bang around and hit things that they probably shouldn't have. The "heat wrapping" was atrocious. Completely unusable and was taken off almost immediately.

First thing I did was to separate the turbo from the manifold, and inspect it. I looked at the fins of the compressor wheel and noticed some nicks in the wheel. After looking at the wheel and then contacting him about it, he said that "I took pictures to show the condition." I said that you couldn't see much in the pictures as they were out of focus and not very clear. Not to mention the damage that the turbine wheel had received and the sheer fact that the compressor wheel had hit the housing. I had taken pictures to send to him and I will show them all to you guys now. They are here. He agreed to give me $200.00 dollars back to help in funding the turbo rebuild which it would NEED to be put into a car again.

After the turbo had been put in to line everything up (IC and what not) I pulled it back off to at least get the car running again with the stock ECU.

It started fine and idled, but it was LOUD as hell

I plugged in the PFC to get it running with that and nothing happened... I was thinking that it was because of the map that was installed on there so I put a new map on it. The stock mod base map. I loaded that map on there plugged it in and again.. nothing happened. I looked at the commander for some clues and it read everything fine.

Next step was to try the PFC in a different 7. I pulled the map from the other owner and loaded it onto my PFC, and again it didn't start. I took his PFC and plugged it into my car with nothing changed on his PFC (injectors were 1600/550, 3bar) and my car ran, well too.... very surprising because of the different settings. But at this point it was fairly obvious... The PFC that I received was not functioning either.

I contacted Waachback about the PFC and he said that it worked when he sent it and that "I needed to figure it out, and that it's not [his] problem if my car doesn't run." I told him that it was in fact his PFC that wasn't working and that I was sure of it because of the different tests that I had done to at least eliminate other things as the problem.

At this point I felt that I had been ripped off and contacted PayPal about the sale and tried to ask for a refund of $825: 700 for the PFC, 100 for the other issues with the turbo and 25 to ship the items back.

He refused the refund and said that PFC's are only 550-600 and that it "still wasn't his problem." I told him that I wanted a full refund then because none of the stuff was working right and that I was not happy. Again I was told that it wasn't his problem"

My last step was to request a refund of 650, 550 for the PFC and 100 for the turbo damage. I figured this was fair as I was asking MINIMUM street prices ever seen on the PFC.

He denied the request again and sent me a message that he pulled all of the money out of his account and that he contacted the Credit Card company to stop any withdrawal attempts. I though for someone that felt he was innocent, this was a fishy move.

I pushed it up to a claim, and PayPal immediately closed it due to the fact that they don't deal with "quality" outside of eBay purchases. This left me with a 2,000-dollar manifold and wastegate. The turbo was not usable, and the PFC was dead.

I got screwed, royally, and now my car will sit for another year because I can't afford to put any more money into it (I know it's a 7 and they require money, not the point.)

I am hoping that someone can help me out, or at least give me advice to getting either SOME of my money back, or getting this garbage fixed.

I have posted the PM transcript on a pastebin so that if people want to see how it was dealt with they can. The highlighted text are/is his responses.

Please guys, and Waachback, if you read this PLEASE respond to what you feel isn't right, and help me out. I am telling the 100% TRUTH.

I also have witnesses that are members here that can back this all up.

WaachBack

iTrader: (21)

We've already been through all this in emails/pms, but I will respond again anyway.

Pictures of the turbo were posted in my for sale thread. There are over 5 pictures. One picture also shows 2 tiny chips on the compressor wheel. Nothing at all that would affect performance, just looks. I think we can all agree to that. You then bring up the questionable shaft play. Like I mentioned, the turbo was rebuilt less then 500 miles ago by Majestic (which I have a recepit for). When I recieved the turbo back from them, I called to inquire about the shaft play and was told that that amount was normal on a journal bearing turbo.

You still insisted that it was too much and that it needed a rebuild. So, I paid for the rebuild on YOUR turbo to try and resolve the issue.

2 weeks after I thought the issue was resolved, you PM me saying that your car doesnt run off the PFC. Well what was funny, is that those times posted in my sig were ran off that same exact PFC (Im the only running FD on this whole island) and that my car had been drag racing on that same exact PFC the weekend before it was pulled (have videos also). I also have never ever heard of a PFC going bad. When cars, dont run, its usually never ever the PFC, its almost always something else. Keep it mind that I parted out my whole running race car and there would be no reason that the PFC would not work.

There is nothing fishy about putting a stop to my credit card. Like YOU mentioned, Pay Pal almost always rules in the buyers favor. I know this as I have been screwed out of money before by them. I refused to get screwed out more money for a PFC that I sent to you in perfect working condition. I knew I did the right thing, but I also knew how bias Pay Pal is to the buyer. This is the sole reason I did that.

You should also post our whole conversation. It would show that I went above and beyond to resolve this issue. It will also show that never once did I need to result to childish names and vulgar language (as you have). It will show that I did everything I could to resolve this.

You are still asking for MORE money to get the turbo rebuilt which was sold to you in used condition. Before I saw that you tried to ruin my reputation on rx7club, I was going to give you $100 MORE to cover your rebuild (since you still claim it needed one), but after seeing all this, I dont think I can do that anymore. I also still refuse to pay you for a PFC that you recieved in perfect running condition.

Let me close by making a few points. I have been a long time contributing member of this forum with transactions with positive outcomes under my belt. A few hundred dollars is not worth all of this, but I will defend myself because I know that I did not rip you off and that I went above and beyond to try and resolve this. If you feel that I sent you a bad PFC, it is my word against yours, but I did not. You also felt that the turbo needed to be rebuilt, I disagreed, but I paid for it to try and resolve this whole thing. If there was a problem in the past, I have always tried to resolve the best I can with the buyer and have no problems in refunding money/parts if it was necessary.

theo481

iTrader: (10)

The turbo does need a rebuild, there is no question about that. If ANY other forum member is in the twin cities area, they can come and look at it themselves.

I only once resorted to "childish names" and "vulgar language" when I called you a d-bag, never before that did I, and from my point of view, being screwed out of a turbo and a PFC, 2k worth of stuff, understandably I am/was frustrated and still am.

I sent you a pm asking for SOMETHING back, I have a dead PFC and a bad turbo, and no money to go anywhere with it.

I am willing to bring this turbo in ANYWHERE to get inspected for shaft play and damaged wheels.

Did majestic offer any kind of warranty to you? if they did maybe we can get this turbo fixed by them? if you only put 500 miles on it, there HAS to be some kind of warranty with a rebuild.

rx7roller02

Is it normal for a freshly-rebuilt turbo compressor wheel to rub against the housing like that??? I'm a bit concerned when you say that the turbo was fine as it is, since that is not supposed to happen on a good turbo at all.

At this point, I have another concern. The PFC is an electronic piece of equipment. That said, if it gets banged around the right way, I can see how something inside could break loose and render the unit DOA. Here's my thing--from the sound of it, you packed these items in the box like you were trying to get them destroyed. As a seller, you are 100% responsible for the packing job that you do(or that you dont do) and the resulting damage that may occur from it. I have no doubt that you were not trying to screw this guy over, but when you drop a bunch of parts in a box without proper padding and protection, this is the kind of thing that can happen. I dont understand why you would sell a guy $2000 worth of parts, some of them fairly heavy, and just drop then in the same cardboard box together like this. Surely you have to know that such a move is asking for trouble.

WaachBack

iTrader: (21)

I gave you $200 back and offered to give you $100 more for the turbo in which you declined.

As for the PFC, as Ive mentioned before, I can do nothing there as I sent you a running PFC out of my race car and will not refund you for something that I know was in good working condition.

Majestic Turbo does in fact have a 6 month warranty for thier rebuilds but it is up to them to determine if the turbo qualifies to be covered under the warranty or not. If you want, I will email you the receipt tomorrow and you can send the turbo into them. You will also see on the receipt that the turbo was built in Dec/Jan. I doubt it even has 500 miles on it as I only ran the turbo for breakin, tuning, and 3 passes down the track.

WaachBack

iTrader: (21)

The turbo does not rub against the housing. I do not know where that came from. It however does have 2 tiny chips which were shown via pictures.

You're right, I am not trying to screw this guy over at all. But the PFC was in fact wrapped in bubble wrap. The only things that were not wrapped in bubble wrap were the down pipe and the manifold which was very big. However, the whole box was padded and the PFC was in the middle of the box in bubble wrap along with the commander.

PFCs sit right on the fire wall, right by the motor. They run in that location for thousands of hours and are prone to vibration, heat, passengers feet, etc, and still keep running. In all honesty, to get one to break, youd either have to almost run over it or drop it in water. I have never ever heard of a PFC go bad, and these get shipped around and sold on a daily basis, some of which go through hell, and they still work. I have advised the buyer to check his connections as this is not 100% plug and play on some harnesses.

rx7roller02

I see the photos that he took of the compressor housing, and my eyes come to a completely different conclusion. Unless, of course, youre trying to say that he scratched up that housing on his own just to take a pic of it.....can you look at the scores in the pic he took and honestly tell me that there was no rubbing going on? Can you also look at the fins, see the lip on the edge of one of the blades, and still claim the same thing? I think not....

Well, here's the deal then, one of you two isnt telling us the truth. As he tells it, there were parts broken through the cardboard and sticking out, and there was no real padding in the box. Someone isnt telling the truth and Ill tell both of you here and now, that part had better get sorted out. I dont mind helping people but I wont sit here and have someone telling me stories.

First, if its near the engine, how would passenger's feet come near it? do you make your passengers put their feet under your hood or something?

Second, vibration is one thing. Getting slammed around via UPS or the like with a bunch of heavier metal objects for a few days is entirely different. A PFC's operating environment does not typically include that kind of impact....and you know it. We're talking about a piece of equipment here that has a bunch of soldered joins inside, you dont think that those could be broken loose by impact?

I guarantee you this--if you buy a PFC new, it will be shipped in its own box, without the need to compete for the space with a turbo, manifold, and other parts and pieces. So yes, of course, they get shipped every day. That in no way excuses poor packing, nor does it mean that a PFC cannot get internally damaged un transit when put in a box with other parts. Think about it--if he's telling me the truth about parts breaking through the box during shipping, then that package was not treated lightly. I dont imagine that you had insurance on this shipment? I would certainly hope so, considering the fact that he paid $2000 for that box.


Well, he hooked up someone else's PFC to his car and it worked, so at least as far as that goes, it would appear that hooking it up isnt the problem. If it were, then the other one wouldnt have worked either. If this were just an issue of not being plug and play with his harness, then he would have already seen that when he hooked the other one up.

There needs to be some kind of resolution on this PFC, guys. I'm happy to let you two work something out that works for both sides, but something needs to happen. We cannot let people send items that show up DOA and chalk it up to the risk of doing business....because it isnt. Like I said, I have every confidence that you werent trying to rip him off, but some way, some how, the PFC arrived DOA. My first recommendation would be to try to determine what is wrong with it. Maybe the manufacturer can help with some troubleshooting....just a thought.

WaachBack

iTrader: (21)

I just looked at the pictures, and no, I dont think he did that to the turbo himself. I did not take the turbo apart, nor was I asked to by the buyer and assumed that the only damage done to it was the 2 chips on the compressor wheel, which I took a picture of and showed. I do not know how it could have gotten like that after such a such time.

That being said, I have already paid for most of his rebuild. He will be getting a new turbo back even though he paid for a used turbo. I have even offered him more money back and he declined that offer.

The buyer never requested inssurance and paid me $80 for shipping. Well, the shipping was $100+ and I ate the extra charges without even an ill word to the buyer.

I have no reason to lie about the PFC. I have been a long time member on this forum, even longer then you, with multiple positive transactions and it is not worth it to me to spoil my reputation over this. I have made a mistake in the past with a buyer while parting out my car and was completely honest with him, admited it was my fault, and compensated him with exactly what he asked for. But in this case, I already feel that I have gone above and beyond to try and make this right with the buyer, even offering more money to him. However, I cannot compensate for a part that I know was running and that I know I shipped correctly.

rx7roller02

But you DO agree that the turbo was in fact damaged and in need of repair? So, lets stop acting like you did him such a big favor by offering to refund him money for a rebuild. You sold him that turbo under the pretense of it not needing a rebuild and it obviously did. That is hardly his fault, wouldnt you agree? He only deserves to have the parts arrive in the same condition they were advertised to be, dont you agree? And I would be willing to bet that disassembling the turbo would not have even been necessary to see some of those scores, but I digress...

No, he will be getting a reguilt turbo, and thats exactly what you charged him for. You charged him for a freshly rebuilt turbo that in your own words didnt even have 500 miles on it. He didnt buy a used turbo, he bought one that you yourself described to be in perfect shape, when it wasnt. Again, I dont consider that to be you doing him some favor, I consider it to be you delivering what was promised. And while I commend you on that, it isnt an "extra mile" thing to deliver exactly what you advertised.

Two things jump out at me here...first, you have been selling parts here for a while now. Why should anyone have to ASK you to protect both yourself and their $2000 investment? Shouldnt it be common sense by now, with all the things youve sold here, that insurance be included? Dont we all know of plenty of stories where something happened to someone's parts shipment? THINK....

And second, the guy just dropped $2000 with you, so why is it some big thing that you ate the extra $20 in shipping cost? How did he arrive at the $80 shipping rate? Is that what you told him it would be? If so, you have even less of a reason to even bring this up like youve done something extra...

First, you havent been here longer than me. Not that it matters but I first came here two years before you. Next, I have repeatedly told you that I dont think youre lying, so why are you still stuck on that? Third, if the PFC arrived in working order at his house, what reason would he have to lie about it now? THINK ABOUT IT--he hasnt even had the chance to run his car yet, so it isnt like he had the chance to kill it. And besides, you just told me in the last post how these things can take heat, vibration, etc etc etc and hold up to the abuse....you cannot have it both ways. Like I said, something went wrong with the PFC and this issue wont be resolved until we can get that sorted out.....thats the start.

Hold on a second, I dont agree at all. You refunded him money AFTER he sent you photos of the damage. judging by your response tonight to me asking you, you didnt even apparently know TODAY what was in that picture until I mentioned it. You insisted to me that there were no such scores in the housing....until you went back and looked at the pic. So, let me break this down a bit further for you.

1-you advertised a turbo in a certain condition.
2-he paid you for it.
3-you shipped it.
4-he received it, and not in the condition you advertised it to be.
5-you refunded him money to cover the cost of a rebuild....because you are LIABLE for that turbo's condition.

If you refunded him and the turbo was in perfect shape, then you would have gone the extra mile. As it is now you havent. you have lived up to what is expected of you here, and I thank you for it, but you have NOT gone out of your way as far as I am concerned. Bottom line, if you are going to sell a part on a forum, you need to verify its condition BEFORE you list it for sale. Man, come on! youve been selling parts for YEARS in here, so why the rookie excuses like "he didnt ask me to take it apart"? HE SHOULDNT HAVE TO--YOU ARE THE RESPONSIBLE PARTY!

Before my last post to you, you KNEW that this turbo was in perfect shape and did not need a rebuild....but when you looked at the pic, what you KNEW suddenly changed. Could it be that the PFC just might possibly have become damaged in transit, for example? This isnt going to simply go away, and if you were the buyer, I know damn well that you wouldnt just eat several hundred dollars and say "oh, well, guess I need to fork over the money again and buy another one". EVERY member here deserves to get exactly what was advertised to them for their money.....you included. What we need to do is try to get some troubleshooting help from the mfr.....or maybe from someone in this forum. At least that would be a place to start, the solution to this may be much simpler than you think.

WaachBack

iTrader: (21)

Oh hell yes I do agree that the turbo needs to be rebuilt after seeing those pictures. However, I had refunded him money to get it rebuilt BEFORE even looking at the pictures and took his word for at that it needed to be rebuilt. I did not know there were damages other then the 2 tiny chips on the compressor wheel. The turbo was still very new and had never been taken apart.

I am not going to argue with you here, but a rebuilt turbo is the closest if not almost the same thing to a new turbo. He paid for a "used rebuilt turbo with 500 miles on it" and that is exactly what he got. Yes there was damage when it was taken apart that is why there was a refund.

The inssurance would have NOT costed $20 more from Hawaii to the East Coast, try adding 50% to the shipping cost for a 2k package. I communicated daily with the buyer and he knew exactly how I would be shipping the package and never once indicated to me that he wanted inssurance. Its funny how people are ok with no inssurance until the 1 rare time when something bad happens, then they flip out.

When I said that I made a mistake in a past, I was NOT talking about this. I settled that with the buyer, took responsibility and gave him what he asked me.

To make it clear to you, I shipped out and disclosed all information to my knowledge (with pictures) that I knew of the turbo. He recieved it and it was not in the condition he expected, so a refund was given. I then offered him even more money to settle the turbo issue in which he declined.

I thought I was clear enough, I guess not, but in my last sentece that you quoted, I was NOT talking about the turbo. I was talking about the PFC. And yes what I knew about the turbo suddenly changed when I saw those pictures becuase like Ive said many times before, the turbo WAS NOT taken apart as it was still pretty new from Majestic.

theo481

iTrader: (10)

Sorry guys, I have been at a family dinner for the last couple of hours.

I have added pictures of the box here as i received it. The peanuts in the picture were thrown in when my wideband came. They were not included in the box.

And don't you think that you should have packed the PFC and anything lose better, especially when it was coming from Hawaii to Wisconsin??

theo481

iTrader: (10)

Then I will ask you to refund my the asking price for the turbo minus the 200 that you have sent me and I will send the turbo back to you.

That will deal with the turbo just fine, as for the PFC I want something from you as far as a refund is concerned.

Find the LOWEST selling price *ever* and refund me that. That way I can at least get the car running again.

theo481

iTrader: (10)

Amen.

ObliqueFD

iTrader: (32)

There have been several cases where members here have dealt with dead PFCs and had them repaired. Theo481, your best bet is to send it to Apexi for testing. Worth a shot at least.

https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...hreadid=289427

theo481

iTrader: (10)

I agree, but I really just want to have to deal with sending it back, I don't want to have a 2-3 week down time, but it seems like that is might be what happens if the collective "we" can't come to some solution.

Theo

rx7roller02

So, you took him at his word, and the pictures dont lie, he was obviously telling the truth. Why then, according to your posts, is it so hard for you to consider the possibility that he's telling the truth again about the PFC?

That's right--youre not. Selling parts here is a privledge, not a right. And like I said, there needs to be a resolution to this issue. As one of the moderators here it is my responsibility to see to that. At the end of the day, youre making less sense as you go on. If the PFC arrived in the shape it was described to be, then it would not have failed when it was hooked up. Can you at least agree on that much? he tried a friend's PFC in his car, and that one worked. He tried the PFC you sold him in his friend's car, it did not work. Obviously at this point the PFC is where the problem lies, not the car's wiring or anything else. Can you at least agree on that?

It's really funny how you went on and on about how that turbo was in perfect shape, how you "didnt even put 500 miles on it", how there wasnt a thing wrong with it, how it didnt need any repair. But now, all of a sudden, youre trying to distinguish between a turbo that's "perfect with not even 500 miles on it" and a "rebuilt turbo, being closest to a brand new one". You certainly werent making that distinction when you were looking to get money for this turbo.....so why try to make it now? By your own logic, you make no sense at all....you have told us:

1--a rebuilt turbo is the closest if not almost the same thing to a new turbo.
2--that this turbo was just rebuilt, has not even 500 miles on it, and is in perfect shape.
3--that somehow, that "less than 500 miles" puts this turbo as a lower or lesser condition than a "rebuilt one".....BUT THEN,
4--that this thing was in perfect shape and NO WAY did it need a rebuild...

When you figure out what exactly your stance is on this turbo, do be sure to let us all know.


Um, no, a minute ago you were trying to tell me how you went so far above and beyond because you refunded WITHOUT KNOWING it was damaged. But NOW, you say "it was damaged and thats why I sent him back the money". Again, do me a favor--pick a stance and stick with it.

um, really? Are you for real? Where did I ever say that the $20 was the cost of insurance? I was referring to your complaining about how you spent $100 for shipping and only charged him the $80 that you originally told him. $100 minus $80.....well, you do the math. Additionally, you just asked this guy to send you TWO THOUSAND BUCKS for these parts....are you ACTUALLY trying to say that someone spending that kind of bread would complain about the extra $50 for insurance? (and before you try to call me out on my math again, you said $100 for shipping, and 50% of that for insurance...right?) And hey, if he DID complain at that point, then at least you woudl have had him on record as saying "no, I dont want to pay for that". THEN you would have covered your butt!

I bet you have insurance on your car, dont you? Then it should be clear why insurance matters so much when talking about someone else's $2000....dont you think?

Again, where are you getting these ideas from? I NEVER claimed anything at all about the mistake you made in the past. I didnt say one word about it at all, so why are you complaining about that?

Um, yeah, you already did make that clear, and the only one who was apparently confused about this thus far is you. I understood completely, and my post didnt indicate otherwise.

Again, youre obviously confused here. I never indicated anything differently than what you are saying. I only used the turbo to point out something about what you said you KNEW. You said you KNEW the turbo was good when you boxed it, and you were WRONG. I was using that to illustrate that once again youre talking about how you KNEW that the PFC was good.....but the turbo shows us that you didnt know after all. Why do you think I asked you this question there:

Before my last post to you, you KNEW that this turbo was in perfect shape and did not need a rebuild....but when you looked at the pic, what you KNEW suddenly changed. Could it be that the PFC just might possibly have become damaged in transit, for example?

Does it make sense now? I knew what you were talking about, chief....what I dont know is why youre getting so confused about what I posted. I made perfect sense with it.....



So.....did you take apart the PFC? Or did you rely on what you thought you knew for that, just like you did for the turbo? And there we go again--the turbo was still pretty new so you had no reason in your mind at all to distinguish between that and a freshly rebuilt turbo......that is, you had no reason in your mind until you had to refund money and you complained on here that he's getting a "new" turbo out of you. you really do have to stop trying to have it both ways on this....

WaachBack

iTrader: (21)

That IS the box that it was shipped in, and it does look like the box may have been damaged during transit where the downpipe sat, (not the PFC) but you failed to show how everything was packed. You also failed to show all the packing material that was used and how the parts were packed.

You knew exactly how I was shipping the package to you, never once asked for insurance, was ok with no insurance and now only bringing up the issue because of that rare time that boxes get damaged in shipping and the insurance was actually needed.

I think find it hard to believe that the PFC does not work, as I know it was packed well in the middle of the box with bubble wrap.

I have already parted out my car and have no use for a turbo. This is my final offer to you to settle this. I will give you $100 MORE in which you can spend on the turbo or the PFC. I am in no way admiting guilt by refunded you more money. I simply want this resolved. If the PFC was actually damaged, this should cover most, if not all repairs needed to it.

rx7roller02

Here is how he described the packing in the box:

Is that what you saw when you opened the package?

theo481

iTrader: (10)

When I opened the package, yes there was bubble wrap *IN* there, but it was thrown about, and was not wrapped around anything. The amount was maybe 2 sheets of paper worth.

The commander LCD was also damaged. there was a black spot on the screen and it was scratched to hell. Since I wasn't planning on using it, it wasn't a *huge* deal to me, but it did lower it's resale value (which was my intentions, as I was buying a datalogit)

EDIT (2nd edit)

Also, the turbo and the manifold and the wastegate were left connected and unprotected from moving pieces, so basically the way I understand it (from what he says) the *only* thing that was wrapped was the PFC, but when it arrived it wasn't wrapped at all. The few sheets that were in there were nowhere near the PFC or commander.

Tomorrow I'll post pictures of the commander as it is in the garage that I do my work at.

theo481

iTrader: (10)

There wasn't any other packaging material EXCEPT for the 1-3 sheets of "spent" bubble wrap that I found thrown in.

I don't want 100$ I want what I have been requesting this ENTIRE time. 825 OR a PFC and 100 for the turbo damage.

rx7roller02

OK, so you admit that the stuff inside moved around at least enough to bust through the box in at least one place...but you somehow want to claim that it could not have moved around enough to impact the PFC? wow.....

Hold it right there--HE didnt ever bring up insurance in this thread. I DID. So please, stop trying to turn this into some kind of discrediting crap.

Like I said, you KNEW a little while ago that the turbo couldnt possibly have been damaged.....and you were wrong. That said, I dont see any reason why you could not also be wrong about the PFC. Think about it--he has no working turbo, so he hasnt even been able to drive the car yet. How could he have killed the PFC on his end? THINK ABOUT IT.....the problem with the PFC is apparently an internal one....and he has not even had the chance to put it on his car and use it at all yet! SO HOW COULD HE HAVE KILLED IT? If its dead and he hasnt had any opportunity to use it yet, THEN THINK OF WHAT THAT MEANS.

Unless youre now going to try to tell me that you think he's lying--that it works after all...

Well, without knowing what is wrong with the PFC, I cannot agree to that as being good enough. If it costs him, for example, $300 to get it fixed, then you benefitted from getting full price for a unit that didnt work and you would have forced him to spend hundreds more than needed to get a working PFC on his car. That isnt good enough. ONCE AGAIN, the VERY FIRST STEP is to troubleshoot the PFC. I have said this THREE TIMES NOW and for some odd reason you dont want to hear it.

No one here's trying to screw you on this, least of all me. But at the same time I will NOT allow someone else to be forced to spend hundreds more to get what you promised him in the first place. Thats only fair, and you know it. If the roles were reversed, I would be saying the same thing to protect your side of this. You KNOW that if you were in his shoes, that you would not be satisfied if you had to spend that extra hundreds of bucks out of your pocket, so how could you even think of putting him in that potential position?

WaachBack

iTrader: (21)

You pick, chose lines, sometimes not even complete sentences out of my post, then quote it, twisting what I actually meant while doing it. Half the things you wrote was not even what I meant.

Anyway, yes its possible that he is telling the truth, but whos to say I am not? I guess my 7+ years on this forum with multiple positive transactions dont matter.

I never did not admit the turbo needed a rebuild until I saw those pictures. Me paying him $200 was not an admition of guilt, it was me trying to resolve this whole thing and make the buyer happy, as $200 was not worth going through all this bullshit. Ive been running the turbo on my own car with no smoke or problems. So I assumed that it was ok, until I saw those pictures.

Yes I have insurance on my car, but only liability. BECAUSE ITS REQUIRED BY LAW and because I only use it 3 times a month, if that. Truth be told, if it was not the law, the majority of people would not have insurance, registration, or a safety check on thier cars. People then go "oh ****" when something bad actually happens.

We arent getting anywhere here because both the buyer and the seller are both insisting and believe that they are both right. I am making a final offer to the buyer of $100 more which can be used to repair the PFC if it was in fact somehow damaged, even if it was his fault, to end all this bull ****.

Theo, this is my final offer and if you accept that then I will transfer over the money to your account.

rx7roller02

Here are a couple of websites for you:

www.monkeywrenchracing.com

www.motovicity.com

These are two Apexi distributors in Michigan, I believe that they will be the closest ones to you. Contact them and ask about PFC repairs, see what they tell you.

theo481

iTrader: (10)

I'll call them first thing tomorrow, and see what they say.

WaachBack

iTrader: (21)

No, because the PFC and the commander were individually wrapped in bubble wrap. Along with extra packing in and around the whole box. I took extra care of those.

Comparing the inside of a turbo to how someone wrapped a part in bubble wrap is laughable at best. I know how I packed it and I already admited that I did not take the turbo apart for inspection. I dont see the disagreement here.

Please stop saying that I sold him a unit that "didnt work" because that is totally not true. It worked 100% fine when I sold it to him. Unlike turbos, PFCs either work or dont, so I am 100% sure that it worked fine.

Yes, I never once said to NOT troubleshoot it. In fact, thats a great idea. What I think would be better is to bring the RX7/PFC to an RX7 shop or tuner that knows these cars well to first verify what the problem is. It could be a totally irrelavant issue and the PFC may not even need to be repaired. The buyer would have then made out with the extra money, and at this point, I really dont care, becuase Id rather be doing other things then aruging online.