theo481

iTrader: (10)

I'll again say the same thing that has been said by me and also by rx7roller02, the PFC has been tested in two cars, a different PFC has been used in my car and it ran.

IT IS THE PFC NO QUESTION, ITS BEEN TESTED, IN THREE DIFFERENT FASHIONS IT DOES NOT WORK

WaachBack

iTrader: (21)

Yeah, and like Ive said before, the PFC was also tested in my own car right before it got into your hands AND IT RAN FINE.

I will not take back a part that I knew was sent to you in working condition. I still cannot believe that it does not work, but if it will end all this crap, I will pay $100 more for the PFC repair that you "say" is broken. If you do not accept this then that is your choice but this is my final offer to you.

rx7roller02

Well, then let me be the bearer of bad news. That offer is two things--

1--premature
2--not good enough

Heres the funny thing about selling parts here. It doesnt matter if youve done one sale or a thousand, the same standards apply to you as a seller.

It is obvous that you two cannot agree to an amicable resolution. So, now, as one of the moderating staff, it is my job to step in and help get this sorted out. For the time being, here's what I propose....

theo481--I would like for you to contact the shops I mentioned and ask them about getting some kind of diagnosis on this PFC. there is no way to fix something if we dont know whats broken.

WaachBack--you are to stop posting like you run this place. You sent this guy TWO things that didnt work, and somehow you think that youre entitled to make "final offers" and such? Sorry jack, it doesnt work that way. We need to wait until we know what it will take to fix this unit. There's no way you can tell me that this is unreasonable. Being an electronic device, its entirely possible that the problem may be one that would cost more to fix than it would to just buy a new PFC....and if thats the case your "$100 final offer" is nothing more than an insult to a guy who sent you $2000 in good faith, trusting in your word.

As for your claims about me, you really need to wake up. I did not misquote anything from you, nor did I twist anything you said. not once, not anything, not at all. But hey, this isnt about me, so thats the end of that conversation. It IS, however about you. And here's the skinny--stop whining about how your 7 years didnt count for anything. you need to step back and see the big picture. We see people all the time in here that dont handle their business. We are FORCED to look out for BOTH sides in a sale because too many others only look after themselves. If your 7 years did not count for anything, I would have revoked your selling privledges long ago and possibly even banned you for refusing to honor your own advertising. So, do yourself a favor--stop complaining at me and focus on this issue and getting it resolved.

If its found that the unit is simply dead, and doesnt make $$$ sense to fix it, then I will ask that you accept the return of the PFC in exchange for refunding the money he sent you for it. youre talking so much about how many good sales youve had, how youre a stand-up guy and all....well, now's the time for you to stand up...so lets see what shape this PFC is actually in and go from there.

rx7roller02

so was the turbo.....tested by you, you said it was perfect....it needs a rebuild. point taken??

WaachBack

iTrader: (21)

To be honest, it actually did. Like I said, it was pulled from my running race car. I never knew about the internal damage and turbos, along with a lot of other parts will run in sub par condition for a long time while sometimes being unknown to the user.

Also, like I mentioned, unlike a turbo, a PFC will either work, or be dead. It does not "sorta" work like other parts can because it is electronic.

And please please please, stop saying that I sent him a broken PFC. Cause that is not true.

I am offering extra money to settle this right now. Yes, it may not be enough, or it may even be too much, I dont care. I am sure everyone involved here would like this settled right now, because this can and will drag on for months if not.

There is also a possiblity that the buyer damaged the PFC on his own accord (dropping it, shorting it out, etc) then is trying to get even more money because he knows that I will possibly give it to him to settle the issue. How are you and I to know this? Please think about that because from the looks of it, you are totally siding with him and his story, assuming that I am lying and that he is right and tell the truth.

I am not trying to act like I am running this place nor am I trying to rip people off a few hundred bucks, its not worth it! All I am doing is standing up for myself and telling the truth to the best that I know it, if that means that you are going to ban me for standing up for myself, even trying to work with the buyer to settle, that is wrong, but so be it.

rx7roller02

Dont take this personally, but if that photo shows the "extra care" you take, then I'm cglad I dont buy parts from you....

The bubble wrap was never compared to anything, chief. Again, stop taking your own confusion out on me. What I questioned was exactly how much you KNEW about the actual condition of these parts...the turbo you obviously didnt know much of anything about, but that didnt stop you from declaring without question that it was perfect and didnt need a rebuild....did it?

And you never answered me, since this seems to be the standard you used--did you take apart the PFC and inspect the inside? No, I'm sure that you did not. so you dont have any way at all to be "100% sure" of anything.


Dude, seriously, let it go already. You sold him a PFC. When he tried to hook it up to use it, it didnt work. Stop taking this so personally already and focus on the damn problem!


Ah, but you did....three times. You see, when I said that this needs to be done, and you skip right over it to keep making your "final offer", thats EXACTLY what youve done. Dont pee on my shoes and tell me its raining...

The RX7 doesnt even figure in. The PFC either works or it doesnt, and they dont need his car to test it. If they test it and it passes the test, then youre in the clear, plain and simple. If they test it and it doesnt work, then that will have to be addressed. We can learn everything we need to without his car being moved anywhere. Aside from that, youre now trying to suggest something that will cost him MORE money....to move his car to a shop and pay them for the diagnosing.....

rx7roller02

OK, look, I have had enough of this crap.

I NEVER said you were lying. NOT ONCE. So PLEASE, get the hell over yourself. I even went as far as to say that I have NO DOUBT that you had good intentions here! I did not "side" with ANYONE, I side with INFORMATION. There's a DIFFERENCE. THE INFORMATION tells me that you INSISTED that this turbo could not possibly be bad. And then, when it was found to be bad, you had excuse after excuse why that shouldnt matter. The INFORMATION tells me that he hasnt even had the chance to use the PFC yet, so his car couldnt have killed it.

And whats this crap?

Just a little while ago in defending yourself, you claimed that these PFCs are designed to handle the heat, vibration, etc etc, and that they get shipped all the time with no issues. you posted that to try to claim that it could not have broken by being dropped or banged around during shipping....but NOW you want to claim he MAY HAVE DROPPED IT AND BROKEN IT?

THIS is the problem that you and I have here--it isnt because I claimed you were lying-since I never said that at all-its because you keep changing your tune! PICK ONE STORY AND STICK WITH IT ALREADY.

And dont accuse me of siding with him. If I was, I would never have said lets get it tested. I would simply have tried to force you into paying him! In fact, I told you NOT TO PAY HIM ANYTHING BACK until we see what we're dealing with! Dont EVER make another accusation towards me again....first you claim I called you a liar, and now this?!? ENOUGH!

Damn, how old are you? With all this nonsense, youre making me feel like a grade school teacher!

WaachBack

iTrader: (21)

Yes you never actually said that I was lying, but blowing me off when I say that it was sent to him in perfect condition is kind of the same thing. There was never a time in which you questioned the buyer, I was the only one questioned as to why the PFC "did not work".
I did not literally mean he broke it by dropping it, ANYTHING could have happened to it while it his hands, this is why I said "etc".

I do not see how I am changing my story, maybe you are misunderstanding me. I have always said that the PFC was sent to him in running condition. I do not believe the buyer that it is not working and I have said that before.

Thanks for the insult, but if you must know, Im in my late 20's.

theo481

iTrader: (10)

Then take the PFC back, if I'm lying that is.

theo481

iTrader: (10)

I'm going to bed, I work at 8am, we'll continue this discussion tomorrow, after I call one of the two shops.

Thanks for the help rx7roller02.

Theo

WaachBack

iTrader: (21)

I would not take it back because it apparently is not in the same condition that it was sent to you, working.

rx7roller02

Again, I follow the information, which you should try doing sometime. The only thing we have as moderators to go on in these issues is the information. And whether you like it or not, all of the information so far points to him telling the truth about it being DOA. The only issues we have with the information up to this point are with things YOU have said. For one thing, you were so dead-set in your opinion that he was lying about the turbo's condition. For another, we have the packing job that, despite your best efforts to say otherwise, doesnt pass muster either. And then, we have the MULTIPLE times where I told you that I have no doubt that you didnt knowingly send this guy a bad PFC. But hey, youre still whining and crying about how I must be out to get you or something. FOLLOW THE INFORMATION and stop whining already!



What amazes me about this PFC issue is the fact that when you tried to defend yourself, you talked about the PFC like it was damn near bulletproof. You talked about how its designed to handle all this heat and vibrations, how its rugged enough to survive your subpar packing job and loads of thrashing at the hands of UPS. But all of a sudden, when youre trying to point a finger at the buyer, you talk about this thing like it's so fragile, that ANYTHING could have happened to it in his hands.

Um, no, I am not misunderstanding you at all. Youre not keeping to your story, thats the problem here. First, you refunded him even though you said "theres nothing wrong with this turbo, its in perfect shape". THEN, you said that you refunded him the money BECAUSE THE TURBO NEEDED A REBUILD. Then there's the PFC like I just mentioned....you talk about how durable it is, but only until you start pointing at him....then its no longer so tough to break one. You actually said earlier that you have never known anyone to have one go out on them.

Something else that bothers me about this. You complained about the $20 extra for shipping that you had to pay. You complained about it and tried to make yourself look better by noting that you didnt ask him for that money. But you sure did complain about having to do that. So, how is it that you would be so willing to send him $200 back when you "KNEW WITHOUT ANY DOUBT" at that time that the turbo was in perfect shape? You can tell me all you like that it was to resolve the issue, but dude, I have never seen someone so willing to cough up that much cash when they truly believed that they were in the right. To be honest, it makes me wonder exactly how much you knew about that turbo's condition after all.

And I have ALWAYS said to you that its completely possible that it was damaged IN TRANSIT. Why are you still not getting this? Look, its time for you to simply stop the whining about this. FACT--when he got the PFC it was DOA. Whether it was working or not when it left your hands, IT WAS DOA WHEN IT GOT TO HIM. Like it or not, as the seller you are responsible for that!

Yes, you have, but you dont make any sense when you say it. It was tested in two cars. It was tested against a known working PFC. BOTH TIMES IT FAILED TO WORK. But hey, if you REALLY believe that it works and that he just isnt doing something right, then you would have no problem accepting it back and refunding his money. Would ya?


Then start acting like it. Stop throwing out wild accusations at me because you dont like what I pointed out to you. Quit whining like you think everyone's out to get you. I dont know either of you at all, so it isnt like I am siding with a friend or something. I only went where the info took me on this one.

theo481

iTrader: (10)

Motovicity will not service the PFC units as they are not a "retail" shop. They are only a distribuitor and didn't know who to contact to get the item serviced/looked at. He gave me a different number to someone that was an "authorized retailer" and they have never sold Apexi product.

Monkeywrenchracing doesn't service units either, they said to call Apexi directly.

I called another shop in Illinois The Driver's Image, (847) 568-5555, and they weren't open yet.

does someone have the number to Apexi directly? A USA one, I'm not calling japan...

Theo

ObliqueFD

iTrader: (32)

APEX Integration Inc.
1449 W. Orange Grove Ave., Unit A
Orange, CA 92868
714-685-5700

I read through their warranty terms and the PFC is covered only for 90 days. They charge a $50 examination fee for out of warranty work.

theo481

iTrader: (10)

Ok, thanks...

Just to inform everyone, I filed a chargeback on my Credit Card, it's in their hands now.

I feel that I have done what I can to try and get this resolved, and I don't think the seller wants to work with me at all.

rx7roller02, thanks for the help, it is extremely gracious of you to help out in this situation. I know that you requested me to get a diagnostics done, which I will still do, but I had a short time frame in which I could file a chargeback to try to get some of my money back.

WaachBack, I wish I wouldn't have had to go this route, I REALLY didn't want it to go this way at all, but you left me no choice. Under the circumstance that I "win" the chargeback, rest assured... I'll send you back your stuff as to not screw you out of both the "good" products and also your money. I never wanted to do that, nor would I ever want to do that... But you left me no choice. I talked my my legal representation as on what to do, and this was their first suggestion. Good luck in the matter, and please keep all transcripts of ANY conversation that we had. That way if there is a "dispute" on what I say you said, and on what you say I said, there will at least be some sort of proof.

Thanks again guys, and I hope that I am not out of line in my actions.

Theo

WaachBack

iTrader: (21)

That is not what was asked of you. The next step was for you to get the PFC inspected, then go from there.

theo481

iTrader: (10)

Well from the way I see it even if the pfc was found to be bad you wouldn't have done anything anyhow. To my knowledge I have 45 days after a purchase to do a charge back and I sure as hell wasn't going to wait until day 43 to do it.

WaachBack

iTrader: (21)

That is not true. What was supossed to happen was you get the PFC inspected then post here. If the dealer said it was in fact defective, Roller would then help by either giving us the next step, or having the buyer, seller, or both, pay.
If I didn't not want to try and work this out, I would not still be here trying to do that exact thing.

theo481

iTrader: (10)

To put a closing statement on here...

I tried to work with you WaachBack, I really did. I explained to you my situation and you refused to help me out further.

I did a charge back because that is the only way I was going to see any of my money back. You left me with no choice. I can't count the number of times that you told me that you weren't refunding me anything for the PFC. At the point when I called the charge back in, I was at the end of my rope. Apexi wanted me to ship it to them, (10-15) pay 50 for an out of warranty claim, and then wait 2 months to get it fixed. I didn't pay you 2180 DOLLARS TO FIX MY CAR IN TWO MONTHS. You cheated me plain and simple.

So after thinking about "Why do I want to do him a favor by keeping a bad turbo also?"

Well I didn't, so I called it in. You tell me what a burnt turbo and a non-functioning PFC is worth. 200-400 depending on the damage to the turbo and the amount that would have to get spent to fix it. (Apexi claims that average repair cost was 150-350 in addition to what I had already put down.) That makes my total expenditure 2350, and this is without a turbo that works. So lets figure the turbo needed another 500$ repair. thats getting REALLY CLOSE to 3000 dollars.

H-E-L-L N-O

I apologized to you in my PM, and I will here too, but I am not taking a 2 month "chance" that I will have to take to get my car running. I want it running last week, when it was ready to start. But I didn't have a turbo OR a PFC to even begin getting my car going with.

And then to top things off you offer me a 500$ refund.

I have said it now, and I'll say it again. I didn't WANT a 500$ refund I wanted 825$. No more No less. But you refused, time and time again.

So I did what any "smart" consumer would do, I used the protection that I pay for by being a card member. I filed a "not as advertised claim" with my card company and they are taking care of it as we speak.

Again, I am sorry, but I didn't pay you over TWO THOUSAND DOLLARS to have to run around a fix my own stuff. I paid for stuff to come to me working, as advertised.

rx7roller02,

I hope that I didn't make you angry by taking this route, I didn't have it in me to wait 2 more months to get my car going. I wanted to get it running when I ordered the parts, that is why I did it so early, and before I even got home from school. Again thanks for the help and thanks for understanding the situation. It is nice to know that at least someone else on this forum agrees with me.

Theo

WaachBack

iTrader: (21)

Now that you have went as far as to file a charge back against me, there is no reason for me to further argue my side of the story as credit card companies always rule in favor of thier card holders, right or wrong.

I offered to give you $800 total ($200 for a rebuild WHICH YOU STILL HAVE) + $100 more + $500 more for a PFC that I sent to you working!

You still have all my parts, will soon have all my money, and still have the extra $200 that was refunded to you. Please refund me back that $200 asap as it has nothing to do with the total price of this transaction.

rx7roller02

Theo,

I understand that you arent in a position to wait another two months to get an answer on this. And while I prefer to get to the bottom of things, I know what its like to be kept waiting when youre trying to get your car back on the road.

I will ask that you keep me updated and that as soon as your CC company makes a decision, that we make plans to return everything to the seller. I will also expect that his additional $200 will be returned to him as well. Please keep me in the loop on this so that everyone can get resolution on this one.

theo481

iTrader: (10)

As long as the CC company doesn't figure in that 200 dollars (which shows up as a refund on my statement from that purchase) I will gladly send it back.

Theo

WaachBack

iTrader: (21)

That doesn't matter. It's totally diffirent. The money was taken from my pay pal account and put directly into yours.

theo481

iTrader: (10)

No it didn't. Ill provide screen shots after dinner

WaachBack

iTrader: (21)

The money was in fact deducted from my account and refunded/credited back to yours. I could provide screen shots of that too but it's not needed since this was already established.