RICE RACING

[i]This thread is set up to help newbies and pro's alike look at some peoples long term tests of running water injection in rotaries.

WI has been around for almost 100years.

I will get the ball rolling with one customer of mine and his cronology of his car, through its upgrade path (via dated internet links) for you to look over at your leasure.

**Encourage others who use WI on their rotaries to post up your water injection results.

***********************************************

User pp13b, water injection. .

*NOTE* This is a multiple year run car, which did many thousands of killometers, all documented on below links on ausrotary, with numerous dyno sheets (of same or higher power level than posted !)

http://ausrotary.dntinternet.com/for...er=asc&start=0

http://ausrotary.dntinternet.com/for...871&highlight=

http://ausrotary.dntinternet.com/for...839&highlight=

http://ausrotary.dntinternet.com/for...=asc&start=200

http://ausrotary.dntinternet.com/for...449&highlight=




[i]"PP13B's car...

Totaly 100% stock std S5 motor with 60000km+ on it (30000km @ hi power level).
2mm oem seals
no extra dowels
no machining work to rotors
no increased oil pressure
no porting to speak of (finger test ) would class it as std basicaly.
58mm comp wheel TO4 (hand me down turbo with a "bit of use on it" 50000km @ 350rwkw level never run with BOV)
gheto (no offence tom) S5 intercoolers welded together in parrallel FMIC
Budget Crane HI6 CDI set up (stock bosch coils)
RICE RACING water injection kit
100% 98 Octane Optimax fuel with 80:1 to 100:1 premix of two stroke oil, no octane boosters at all.
4 X 12AT injectors & 044 fuel pump

25psi boost spike and settles on 23psi (turbo wont hold boost) too much power on that comp wheel, makes max power at about 6000 to 6500rpm then falls down from there.

*NOTE* This is just a bit of info, car is not tuned for a dyno run figure, just a reliable daily driven package.

RICE RACING

'ran 40 pulls on engine dyno on pump fuel with WI and did 580+bhp and using 1.9bar boost in mid range !!!!

not a Rice kit

RICE RACING

Another running my kit

http://ausrotary.dntinternet.com/for...er=asc&start=0

http://ausrotary.dntinternet.com/for...er=asc&start=0

RICE RACING

I want to put Forde's proven achievement into some type of perspective here for you all....

580+bhp on pump fuel with WI on their engine dyno (real power !)

To give you a bench mark Racing Beat when they set their 238mph 2nd gen speed record in 1986 they had Mazdaspeed designed 13B bridge port twin turbo engines running Ice Water/Alcohol slurry Intercooler with 1.1 bar of boost and ONLY made 530bhp !!!! on their engine dyno running race fuel. These engines when run in Japan in enduro sports prototype cars with a bit more boost and air to air IC's made around 500bhp only.

WI = real power increases on pump fuel.

No_Rotor_RX7

so someone using WI, they still need the massive fuel injectors and twin pumps and all that jazz still right? it's like tuning with no injction of any kind and then adding that on top to use as an anti-detonant only... and your safely running upwards of 25psi on pump gas? just sorting this out in my head

RICE RACING

Because of the realtive inexpence of Bosch 839's and other 160lb/hr injectors some simply opt for these since most ECU's can run them fine. Not really needed though to answer your question. Most popular for road cars here that run WI is 4 x 12a turbo injectors (880cc) or 4 x siemens 1000cc or 4 x stock FD secondaries (850cc) or 4 x rochester 1000cc ....... pretty much covers it. Not many people go the odd size secondary injector route but there is lots of combinations obviously.

25psi on pump and then some

If you run rich (11.2:1 range) + WI then 2.0bar (29+psi) has been done before, but totaly safe range is 25 to 26psi even on big/meduim turbo's (T66 size).

No_Rotor_RX7

do you make your own kits or do you use a particular brand? also do you prettty much stick to one ideal setup for all these single turbo high boost setups?

RICE RACING

Best to PM me so thread stays on topic

RICE RACING

See the 500+pump water injection club for latest update and dyno sheet.

Water Injection, love it

RICE RACING

RICE RACING Water Injection System
Pump fuel 95 RON
16.7psi boost at peak rwhp
13B cosmo engine with secondary bridge port, owner built & ported
tune 10.10:1 AFR, no knock, water rate *enough* not tuned for dyno runing
dyno dynamics system (give lower figures than your types, you can add a minimum 25rwhp)

RICE RACING

PP13B's *updated* car dynoed 345rwkw (600~630bhp engine) a little while back on a new Rice Racing block and T66 upgraded compressor @ 20 psi boost RR water injection.

Daily driven car that torches tires any gear below 4th !

BDC

http://www.wentec.com/unipower/calculators/kw_hp.asp

345kw = 462.65 -- A respectable number, but a bit shy of 600-630.

You haven't even been back for two days and yet you're still starting in on stuff. I'm flattered that I seem to raise your ire and get the worse end of your verbal tongue. It tells me much.

Good luck with WI Peter,

B

RICE RACING

I think by now everyone is sick of you Brian

^I know i sure am

To give you a little education though, Dyno Dynamics read a lot lower than the inertia type exagerators you use you can do your own research on that one mate.

Unlike others I dont require any luck neither do my fellow enthusiasts who follow a proven path like water injection

Now seeing that you again have prooved you have nothing to add except hatred (comenting on a dyno system you know nothing about !) you can please refrain form posting in anything to do with this untill you learn some fundamentals maybe?. I have derived much pleasure in shuting your mouth firmly on your stupid points regarding water inejction. I will take many more contiuning to make you look very average

cheers.

RICE RACING

To give you a helping hand in the interests of understanding and you learning more.

PM (enzo250) of this very forum, he has his own dyno dynamics machine based in NY, and I am sure he will be more than glad to highlight to you the technical differences that go towards them giving much lower figures than your dynojets.

if you continue to ***** up my threads with your hatred and disbelief then you are only doing yourself a great dis service. you need to learn to move on and face facts that you dont know half of what you think you do and also that alot of the garbage you have typed RE water injection is just that garbage. its hard being hit with reality, and rest assured I will continue to hit you with it right in your face

P.S. Modified RX8's generaly dyno around 125rwkw on this dyno

CrackHeadMel

iTrader: (2)

I was surprised however happy to see that you had been unbanned a week or so ago being that i felt you brought a wealth of information to this forum, however i am saddened to see that your already acting childish again

Please grow while continuing to contribute to this forum.

If you can act like an adult long enough, im interested in pricing / options for your water injection setups as i would like to experiment with some form of AI in the near future. My email is vangelder.jacob@gmail.com

-Jacob

RICE RACING

I come here to impart knowledge and technologies that work, what i type and share is fact (they are generaly underestimates of power not the other way around).

RICE RACING

please delete these stupid posts, I am not here to argue as i am totaly tired of that crap. Sorry brian for the message on the dyno sheet.

to answer brians question.
dyno dynamics reads lower than dynojet.
my estimation is quite conservative.
if i had a dynojet i would use one, but dont hold it against me.
if anyone wants to know about WI please pm and I will try to help you out.

lets all get along for once.

CrackHeadMel

iTrader: (2)

Nice (3rd edit's the charm! j/k) well i only saw 3

I am honestly interested in WI due to the simplicity of your systems (from what i understand from your descriptions) and the cost of running it

RICE RACING

^ to answer your question in the spirit of this thread

Thats its main attraction, simplicity, it may not be fully optioned with adjustable this and that nor will it extend your fuel system capacity like methanol can but it has its own virtues.

I am happy to spell these out here or in another thread if people want to hear about it in greater detail?

The biggest thing though I like is it works out of the box with basicaly no tuning required, and i think that is what appeals to lots of people highest out of the positive aspects. The one negative is the initial investment in the components.

CrackHeadMel

iTrader: (2)

Another thread is probably a good idea

RICE RACING

ok i will work on putting up something

for this testing/results thread
522.5rwhp on dynodynamics is the highest so far
hope to improve on that soon, may get to test again this weekend on the water injected beast

PimpyHand

The best correction factors I can find (for DD vrs DJ) is at the low end 18.53% and the upper end 22.74%.
Errrr I should say the only ones I beleve were done in a honest comparison.

Refrence : http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=286440



Given Rice's posted sheet

522.5HP *18.53%= 96.81HP (619.31 HP corrected to DJ #'s)

522.5HP * 22.74%=118.81HP (641.31 HP corrected to DJ #'s)



Given that, I think Rice is WELL with in his rights to claim 600+ HP for the dyno sheet shown.

crispeed

The biggest problem I see when comparing both dynos is that all the facts have to be presented. I've used the dynodynamics and still do.
The problem is that unless you state the actual correction factor and run conditions used on the dyno run the power can be the same or even higher than the dynojet. I've seen it happen many times.

PimpyHand

I agree with out knowing the numbers pluged in to the dyno we will never know 100%. But you have to find the difrence some how. I looked at lots of threads, some of them claiming huge difrences(30-40%). Which I dont beleve are realistic. How ever the thread I linked was a "out of the blue" test or 2 "run of the mill" dynos. And I think the comparo was done as evenly as posable, keeping the varibles at a minum. And it seems to be a fair comparo.


Having said that I still look at ANY "corrected for DJ numbers" with a slanted eye. And I assume they are lower than the "corrected" number. Hense the statment of 600+ and NOT 620+ or 640+



Can the dyno be programed to read as a DJ?

Of corse it can, but that seems to be the exception and not the rule.

BDC

Nice signature. You weren't banned because you somehow "made us look stupid" -- you were banned because of your mouth and how you were treating people. That's regardless of whatever technical expertise you may or may not possess. I'm willing to get along with you Peter if you're willing to play fair in your technical arguments, treat me and others onn this forum well (quit calling us names and stop covertly trying to verbally abuse us), and deal with the issues at hand as an adult like the rest of us.

B