HardHitter

iTrader: (4)

I am going to rebuild my car and I have the following engine mods

A-Spec 500R T4 Single Turbo
A-Spec Stainless Manifold
TurboSmart E Boost Controller/Gauge
Greddy Type-RS BOV
Tial 44mm Wastegate
RE-A Dual-Tip Cat-Back Exhaust System (JDM)
A-Spec Down Pipe
A-Spec Mid Pipe
RX-7Store V-Mount Intercooler Kit + Modified KOYO Radiator
Greddy Throttlebody Elbow
FDNewbie Import, Dual Oil Coolers w/ Black Setrab Cores
Supra TT fuel pump
550/1300 injectors
HKS Twin Power

When I get the engine pulled and rebuilt (3mm streetported) I want to make sure that the car is reliable and after reading many of howard coleman's threads, it seems as though AI is the way to go for gaining more performance, but just taking heat away and making the engine just more reliable in general.

I already have a coolingmist trunk mount system waiting to be installed for when I get the engine built. I want to know if I just want reliability by just running distilled water, will I need to get the car retuned? The car is tuned at a low 14psi right now and sooner or later once I break in the new engine and put a good amount of miles on the car, I will want to get it tuned by Steve Kan again, but after the rebuild do I need to get a tune right away if I am just running water? (no meth or alcohol) I know Rich and I have the same turbo setup and I know he runs AI, but I'm pretty sure he runs meth with his setup.

Thanks in advance and Howard, your thread in the 3rd Gen section was a great read!

WaachBack

iTrader: (21)

With water? No, not mandatory, but I retune a little leaner anyway.

And BTW, this has been covered before if you search.

rx72c

iTrader: (8)

Dont bother with distilled water.

I made 700rwhp with tap water.

Next. Dont run leaner fuel mixture with water. Also your going to need an ignition upgrade.

Get some CDI boxes.

IF the tune was good before. Water will only make it better. Not worse.
It will be fine to run in till you get it tuned.

HardHitter

iTrader: (4)

Get rid of the HKS? I'm not trying to make gobs of power like it seems that you guys have as I see you're running around 700hp+. In California, we only have 91octane and I just want the car reliable and safe when boosting. If I can, I'd like to be able to run 450rwhp with no problems. The car is just a weekend car to have fun with on some drives.

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

You'll be fine with the tune the way it is just running water. The twin power will also be fine, I did find the greddy race plugs helped, the egv's burned up in short time for me. I'm running a twin power, stock coils, around 600cc of water and 23 psi of boost. I run 93 octane. You might need to adjust your boost or water levels compared to mine for the lower octane.

Tap water here also.

HardHitter

iTrader: (4)

Alright, so I'm safe with the HKS? I'm trying to get together all the parts so I can save on labor and just have my builder install everything while the engine is being rebuilt. I see that you're running 1680's for your secondary injectors, but will 1300's be fine for the power I'm looking for (450rwhp) or will be duty be almost maxed at that power level and these injectors.

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

Yes the twin power will work fine. But I just realized you're adding a street port. When I first read it I kind of skimmed over and thought you already had the car tuned and were just adding water. This changes things. You're going to want to retune the car. Not because of the water, but because of the porting. That changes the tune quite a bit. And yes your 1300's will be maxed out way before 450 rwhp. Even at 100% duty you would need more injector.

My setup flows closer to 850/1680 due to my dual pumps and slightly higher base pressure. You could increase the base pressure and add a very large pump or dual pumps. Or you could run 850/1300, or 550/1680. All of which will require retuning as well.

HardHitter

iTrader: (4)

Oh no, the motor is already streetported. The previous owner had it ported but didn't break-in the engine and the builder and I believe that the seals got warped, but we will find out when we open the engine up. So since the car got tuned, there is nothing new with the car other than installing the coolingmist kit.

Like I said, I will end up staying with everything one the rebuild other than the water injection. Break the car in, do a few pulls and just make sure the car is running 100% before doing anything else. Later down the line I will add a fueling kit and upgrade my injectors in order to support my power goals later down the line. I'm thinking with the tune I have now @ 14psi on the 500R and water injection, the car will be pushing around 350-360rwhp?

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

Provided the last tune was alright it should still be fine. If the engine blew from being too lean then obviously there would still be a problem with the tune. Depending on port size you might be making more power then that @ 14 psi. Those power levels would be more expected for stock ports at that boost level.

WaachBack

iTrader: (21)

You have to define what you mean by "Dont run leaner" because as far as I know, you are running in the 11 A/Fs which isnt exactly rich.

What I meant when I said "a little leaner" was that if I were not running water, and I was running 14psi, I would tune for about 11.0 a/fs.

If I were running water (500cc or so) at 14psi, 11.0 would be way to rich and unless you had a REALLY strong ignition, youd have misfire.

And as Brent mentioned, HKS Twin Power is also more then adequate for his setup.

rx72c

iTrader: (8)

For 450-500rwhp. If you want it reliably. You need to run rich mixtures and a very strong ignition system.

My car is running in the low 11/10s.

At one stage i had it in the high 11s/12s, it wasnt ideal, it lead to extremely high egts and alot more knock.

If you have a missfire at 11.0 at 15psi with only 500cc of water. Your ignition is **** weak.

You have to tune a car so it can make the power reliably under any conditions. So varying qualities of fuel, varying barometric pressures, varying air temperatures. So if you tune to have your car running mid 10s , i would almost gurantee your car will run ace in all conditions and never fail.

Run it mid 11s and it may work for a while, go load it up for an extended period of time and it will most likely fail, or fill up a **** batch of fuel and it will fail.

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

Twin power is actually pretty good at burning mixtures. The spark output is way better then the stock ignition. When I first tuned for over 20 psi my mixtures were in the mid 10's and it burned fine. Of course now I'm running 10.9- 11 and if feels much better there. I do feel the greddy (ngk 7420) plugs are worlds better then any of the other plugs I've used, which may have helped.

If I was starting over I would go with one Crane Hi6 and LX92 per leading plug. Since I already have the twin power I'll stick with it and probably just upgrade the coils at some point. Iif I ever push my setup over the the TP's limits then i'll go with the crane ignition.

WaachBack

iTrader: (21)

Ive tested my twin power a few times. I find that it can ignite mixtures up to 9.9 a/f's with 550cc water at 20psi with stock coils and 9 range plugs. This equates to more then enough ignition for someone to run in the 11s a/fs up to around 25psi.

rx72c

iTrader: (8)

Just remember. Your engine isnt making any power.

So the fact that you can ignite a mixture in the 9s at 300rwhp dosnt mean your ignition is strong.

And like i said before. You would be crazy to run your afrs in the 11s at 25psi. Youll find your engine not lasting too long.

hondahater

iTrader: (2)

so mid 10's and conservative timing... Got it. You got any advise on timing? I followed your setup pretty much to the T. I've got lx92 coils all around and hi-6 ignition amps for leading. I've got the 10.5 ngk's coming in and I'm shooting roughly about 600cc in at 14psi. The last thing I've got left really is the tune and since I don't tune it's the scariest part of all. I've got a Puerto Rican guy from florida tuning it. Is there anything I should tell him besides mid 10's and conservative timing?


Ps. Sorry I couldn't order the plugs from you, it was a bit out of my price range for plugs but next time I can order something from you I will!

edit: you know, I can pay you to remote into my microtech laptop and set me up a tune, It's actually really simple you just have to go to a website and it will get you right on to my computer. Let me know if you do that kind of thing.

rx72c

iTrader: (8)

I can setup your tune its no dramas. Just pm me and well go from their.

As for timing.

Talking absolute TIMING figures here.



on 30psi of boost run 2 ATDC
24-28psi run 4 ATDC
20-22psi run 6 ATDC
16-18psi run 8 ATDC
10-14psi run 12ATDC

If your porting is done right, your engine will make very healthy power with very little timing, youll only need a huge amounts of timing in an engine with a restriction somewere. I.E intake restriction such as inlet manifold or porting.

So spend your Dosh doing all the little things, bored out TB, extrune honed inlet manifold, proper port job(not a pretty one, one that is cut properly in the right place), your engine will make heaps of power with little timing and rich mixtures.

hondahater

iTrader: (2)

Ok I'll pm you about the tuning for sure, I'm ready to start driving this thing. Also is that timing chart good for a half bridge? I know most now a days aren't running the half bridge setup but I kind of wanted to see what it could do because I'm not planning on running this car on the track all that often and figured the half bridge would spool the turbo up alot quicker than a street port, which it does. I think I was getting 20psi by like 4000-4500 rpm last go round so it was a fun car to say the least, just not very reliable (not because of the ports). Anyways I'll pm you with my mods and see what you think and see if you want to set something up. Thanks again.

rx72c

iTrader: (8)

Yes that timing map will work with most ported engines.