E85 vs AI - RX7Club.com - Mazda RX7 Forum

Alternative Fuels Discussion and Tech on using alternatives such as E85 or Hydrogen or other fuels and/or supplements to Gasoline in Rotary Engines

E85 vs AI

Old 12-05-12, 01:55 PM
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Exclamation E85 vs AI

So most of you know that most of the characteristics of e85 are pros but how do yall think it compares with ai, wi etc.? I love the idea of e85 but honestly I'd wanna keep my car a DD. Or is there anyone who DD's there e85 car? Please share.

For example
e85: Almost 100% detonation proof
Big reliable power safely
Car usually becomes a weekend warrior

AI: Can make running high boost very safe
Also big reliable power
Car can stay a DD
Adding ai can make another place for failure

Please add more pros and cons to the two, I know theres many more but I couldn't think of em. I couldn't find a thread comparing the two so I just made one, and I know posting it here I'll probably get more people in favor of e85 but humor me anyway please. Thank you.

Last edited by audoetuk; 12-05-12 at 01:57 PM.
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Old 12-06-12, 07:40 AM
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E85 vs AI is really location location location. If you don't have an E85 station in town, you will be making compromises to use e85.

And another place for failure isn't too bad, most already have hundreds of places of failure.
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Old 12-06-12, 08:20 AM
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I agree on the location. I know some people around Chicago daily e85 cars, worse comes to worse you can always put gas in it and just run a different map. Though you take a huge hit on mileage with e85 which means you'll be going to the pump more often as well.
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Old 12-06-12, 09:52 PM
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Thank you very much for the input, I live a good 10-15mins from an e85 pump, I have a lil suv that I daily, and didn't really plan to daily this 7 as much as my suv so that's two points for e85 so far.
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Old 12-08-12, 08:35 PM
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Given how little most people drive Rx-7's these days, I'd go with the E85.
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Old 06-05-13, 11:43 PM
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So what is the actual mileage difference from using e85 compared to normal petrol on average?
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Old 06-06-13, 07:32 AM
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"what is the actual mileage difference from using e85 compared to normal petrol on average"

Gasoline 116,090 BTUs per gallon

E85 82,300 BTUs per gallon

E85 mileage should be 71% of gas.

hc
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Old 06-06-13, 08:36 AM
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Yep, what Howard said.
When I fill up, I take a 5 gallon gas can with me and fill that up as well. That way, I don't have to go back as often.
Used to run AI, and blew a couple of engines on it. Have never blown my engine on E85.
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Old 06-06-13, 09:10 AM
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i will stir the pot a bit more w another option.....

i plan to run half E85 and half gasoline for all track and dyno events.

there is a point of diminishing returns between the replacement of gasoline w E85.

yes, you gain higher octane and and cooling w ethanol but you lose BTUs per volume.

you also have to run lots more injector capacity, pump capacity and perhaps larger lines...

mix the two equally and you may be able to get what you want.

the primary issue is the real world need for two maps (gas and E85), and a computer that will interpolate between the two based on fuel composition... which necessitates a FFS.

the benefits could be large.

Luke tuned out a Genesis coupe turbo 4 (GT3076) at 420 on pump/AI

he then drained the tank, filled it w half pump and half E60 (winter in Green Bay is E60)

he then tuned the Genesis out at 570.

the motor was in the exact spot in relation to knock on pump at 420 as it was on the blend at 570.

case closed for me.

howard
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Old 06-06-13, 12:06 PM
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AEM has a flex fuel system that will calculate the 'blend' of fuel passing through and the tuner can adapt their map as such...the turbo BMW guys have started to give it a shot but I don't know of anyone who has perfected it yet. Sounds like the best of both worlds to me, then spary a little bit of WI on top of that and you're almost bullet proof until you find the next weak link.

AEM Infinity Stand-Alone Engine Management System - 30-710 - Modern Automotive Performance
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Old 06-06-13, 01:14 PM
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E85 daily driver here with 700hp... 3 in (super quiet) exhaust... AC, power steering.... & smoke zr1's whenever i feel the need to put corvettes in there place


& when i mean daily drive i mean everyday i go to work.... i use the car for what its for


oh and my temps are around 170F... and 190F with the ac on
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Old 06-06-13, 01:59 PM
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WI

That’s the beauty of the some of the current aftermarket EMS like my ProEfi, the ability to manage pump gas to E85 and everything in-between. I can’t wait to get my can running!

Blowing by the likes of ZR1’s and such must generate a lot of bitter looks…
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Old 06-06-13, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by rx7 SE View Post
AEM has a flex fuel system that will calculate the 'blend' of fuel passing through and the tuner can adapt their map as such...the turbo BMW guys have started to give it a shot but I don't know of anyone who has perfected it yet. Sounds like the best of both worlds to me, then spary a little bit of WI on top of that and you're almost bullet proof until you find the next weak link.

AEM Infinity Stand-Alone Engine Management System - 30-710 - Modern Automotive Performance
Yes the GM flex fuel sensor (Ethanol content sensor) makes tuning so much easier, as long as you have all the ignition tables loaded for the corresponding blends.
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Old 06-06-13, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by R_1 View Post
That’s the beauty of the some of the current aftermarket EMS like my ProEfi, the ability to manage pump gas to E85 and everything in-between. I can’t wait to get my can running!

Blowing by the likes of ZR1’s and such must generate a lot of bitter looks…

YA BUT its 100% e85. No 95/85 mix.... so its just as having a pump gas stock fd.....filling up as if i look stock. Until i burn the Nitto Nt03 tires.


i try to keep it stock with the looks but when you have some big 40mm drag radial tires in the back they know i must have them on for a reason.
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Old 06-06-13, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by darkphantom View Post
YA BUT its 100% e85. No 95/85 mix.... so its just as having a pump gas stock fd.....filling up as if i look stock. Until i burn the Nitto Nt03 tires.


i try to keep it stock with the looks but when you have some big 40mm drag radial tires in the back they know i must have them on for a reason.
What are you doing for a clutch?
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Old 06-07-13, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by howard coleman View Post
i will stir the pot a bit more w another option.....

i plan to run half E85 and half gasoline for all track and dyno events.

there is a point of diminishing returns between the replacement of gasoline w E85.

yes, you gain higher octane and and cooling w ethanol but you lose BTUs per volume.

you also have to run lots more injector capacity, pump capacity and perhaps larger lines...

mix the two equally and you may be able to get what you want.

the primary issue is the real world need for two maps (gas and E85), and a computer that will interpolate between the two based on fuel composition... which necessitates a FFS.

the benefits could be large.

Luke tuned out a Genesis coupe turbo 4 (GT3076) at 420 on pump/AI

he then drained the tank, filled it w half pump and half E60 (winter in Green Bay is E60)

he then tuned the Genesis out at 570.

the motor was in the exact spot in relation to knock on pump at 420 as it was on the blend at 570.

case closed for me.

howard
Howard,
When they retuned the Genesis on the mixer, was it on the same computer/dyno/settings as when they tuned on pump ? If they made changes what exactly did they change ?

I actually find it interesting as I was talking with a buddy of mine and I told him I wanted to try mixing 1/2 tank of 93 with 1/2 tank of E85 to see how the FD would run. I just haven't done so out of fear it may cause an issue.

Thanks
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Old 06-07-13, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by RXTASY57 View Post
What are you doing for a clutch?
OS giken twin disc..... I had an act 6 puck and it breaks trannys alot so i went with the twin disc
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Old 06-07-13, 01:36 PM
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The key thing to remember about E85 is that depending on your region of the country and the season of the year, the Ethanol content is not always the same. Some times is can be E70 or even E60. So even if you always fill up at the E85 pump, it still would be smart to have the Ethanol content sensor along with an ECU that can read the sensors input signal and programming to compensate for the changes in the fuel automatically.
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Old 06-07-13, 08:59 PM
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Luckily for us in Florida we get the same E85 all year. No temp changes down here. It's just HOT or HOT.
Lol
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Old 06-07-13, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by darkphantom View Post
OS giken twin disc..... I had an act 6 puck and it breaks trannys alot so i went with the twin disc

Will be waiting for you next week at PBIR, lets see what your 700hp E85 FD has against
590 hp FD, no excuses bring it on.


Shouldn't be a problem for you to beat my car, but I'm ready.


: egrin:

Last edited by BLACK MAMBA; 06-07-13 at 09:33 PM.
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Old 06-07-13, 09:36 PM
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Any info on what oil is better for premix, looking to make a change to E85, being doing a lot of reading on it.
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Old 06-08-13, 07:41 AM
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synthetic is the best for premix.... I use Amsoil but its pretty expensive


Originally Posted by FC3S1991 View Post
Will be waiting for you next week at PBIR, lets see what your 700hp E85 FD has against
590 hp FD, no excuses bring it on.
Shouldn't be a problem for you to beat my car, but I'm ready.
: egrin:
i think your going to be my biggest fan... who follows me everywhere & answers all my questions...
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Old 06-08-13, 08:35 AM
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I've used VP M2 premix burns clean and doesn't separate but is expensive $11 dollars for 16oz.

Now I changed to Benol it also mixes with gasoline.

Running 2oz a gallon.
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Old 06-08-13, 09:09 AM
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"When they re-tuned the Genesis w half pump and half E60, was it on the same computer/dyno/settings as when they tuned on pump ? If they made changes what exactly did they change ?"

i can check w Luke to give you that info but primarily the additional 150 hp came from being able to increase boost w no detonation.... due to the alcohol.

hc
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Old 06-08-13, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by howard coleman View Post
"When they re-tuned the Genesis w half pump and half E60, was it on the same computer/dyno/settings as when they tuned on pump ? If they made changes what exactly did they change ?"

i can check w Luke to give you that info but primarily the additional 150 hp came from being able to increase boost w no detonation.... due to the alcohol.

hc

Nice

I just started testing with 50% fuel/E85 on my second fuel map, right of the bat had to add 30 more fuel after only idling for 2 minutes in order to keep car at steady idle.
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