Alternative Fuels Discussion and Tech on using alternatives such as E85 or Hydrogen or other fuels and/or supplements to Gasoline in Rotary Engines

E85 Tuners Thread

Old 11-08-10, 07:27 AM
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E85 Tuners Thread

Fuel is pump E85

AF's are 11.5:1 in mid-top end, 19psi (sourced from turbo outlet, not yet checked map sensor for manifold boost). Overboost cut set at 21psi, soft revlim starts at 7800rpm

Timing wise I'm using

12deg BTDC @ 13 psi
5deg BTDC @ 18psi

Application 9.4:1 12A mildport, not studs or extra dowels. Stock mazda seals.

Does this sound survivable?
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Old 11-08-10, 08:23 AM
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survivable yes, you can add 5 degrees to both and still live
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Old 11-08-10, 10:05 PM
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Wait for someone with experience to chime in, but with that much alcohol it seems like you could go a bit fatter up top, it's only a lambda of .78. I know meth is different, but it seems like guys on straight meth go for as rich as .65 (which would read 9's on your AFR gauge)
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Old 11-08-10, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Trots*88TII-AE* View Post
Wait for someone with experience to chime in, but with that much alcohol it seems like you could go a bit fatter up top, it's only a lambda of .78. I know meth is different, but it seems like guys on straight meth go for as rich as .65 (which would read 9's on your AFR gauge)
I'm pretty sure I'm barely lighting it as is. I'm slowly adding 1degree timing at a time to reduce/remove the misfire it already has. Going richer is not an option without better ign system. The misfire is certainly blowing out spark, and it still turns 3rd gear at high rpm :O
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Old 11-09-10, 01:35 PM
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I had a misfire with E85 and that same AFR. It cracked my rear iron.
I have since upgraded the iron to a better dowel landing and increased my AFR's to 10.8:1.
I am running only an old Crane HI-6 and stock TII coils. It ignites it just fine.
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Old 11-10-10, 03:56 AM
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OK I kept mixtures same .78 E85 lambda, added a touch more premix. Timing is now

13psi - 14deg BTDC
18psi - 6deg BTDC

Revs clean, makes good power. Just gotta monitor compression now.

Bad luck in your case Lets see how mine goes.
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Old 11-10-10, 11:42 AM
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Old 11-10-10, 12:10 PM
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Wait for someone with experience to chime in
that's a good one, more experience chatting on the forum? explain or should i post dyno charts then i would have some experience, just asking
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Old 11-10-10, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by killahrx7 View Post
that's a good one, more experience chatting on the forum? explain or should i post dyno charts then i would have some experience, just asking
dyno charts? of a car you tuned, or the car in your sig tuned by 3face racing?

-Rxtasy... those look more like charts for a 8.5-9.0 cr... he's running 9.4/1 if you didn't see that above.
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Old 11-10-10, 12:57 PM
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Comp tested my motor.

Front rotor 100psi, rear rotor 110psi. Has not dropped off after 18 months of turbo.

I will report back what I find with an additional 400cc/min water
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Old 11-10-10, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by killahrx7 View Post
that's a good one, more experience chatting on the forum? explain or should i post dyno charts then i would have some experience, just asking
Someone with experience tuning E85, not someone like me who has never done it. The comment wasn't directed at you, it just meant that I haven't actually tuned a car on E85. Dyno charts mean **** all...
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Old 11-12-10, 01:53 PM
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i don't give info that i don't know, it's because i've done plenty cars with e85. if you look in the dyno section for 2nd gen you'd see my dyno chart that i did since 08, if you don't then i'll send you tuning maps and dyno charts of cars. all i was doing was giving my 2 cents of knowledge but since i don't have enough experience in posting videos of cars i will keep silent next time. sorry experience posters.
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Old 11-13-10, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by killahrx7 View Post
i don't give info that i don't know, it's because i've done plenty cars with e85. if you look in the dyno section for 2nd gen you'd see my dyno chart that i did since 08, if you don't then i'll send you tuning maps and dyno charts of cars. all i was doing was giving my 2 cents of knowledge but since i don't have enough experience in posting videos of cars i will keep silent next time. sorry experience posters.
Cool down grasshawper! It's OK if people don't know your experience.
That's the problem with the rotary community. Everybody keeps their experinces to themselves. Like it's "Top Secret" or something.
We are a small group of people that keeps getting smaller and smaller. We need to ban together and help each other like all the other car groups do.
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Old 11-15-10, 11:50 AM
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that is so true, in reality if i knew how to do certain things on the forum i would even post an ignition map for "Jobro" to see what kind of timing i run. i actually run higher timing than what you posted, but at the same time what works for me might not work for someone else, so when i give info it's a bit conservative. like you said we need to help each other more so we can have more cars on the street running
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Old 11-21-10, 10:23 PM
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[email protected]
[email protected] 18psi

is aok, ~400cc water in the mix now. going to go [email protected]/[email protected] next.

again barely lighting
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Old 04-06-11, 11:24 AM
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I am trying to figure out where to start with the e85 timing on my 9.7 rotors, stock 6 ports. I am currently running 15psi on a t70 with very very conservative timing, only about 5 degrees at 15 psi. would the timing map in post 7 still be roughly applicable minus a degree or 2 across the board?
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Old 04-11-11, 06:14 PM
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some of the posters say keep spark conservitive, others say have at it!

i suppose when it blows up ,its to much timing. DUH! must be an easier way.

what im sayin is timing the make all-break all, for good power.
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Old 04-12-11, 09:58 PM
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The timing I posted is a bit conservative. With E85, you can throw gobs of timing at it and gobs of boost.
It is pretty resistant to detonation.
Don't go out and drastically change your map. Do it 1 degree at a time and check your results, preferably on a dyno.
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Old 05-03-11, 12:31 AM
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I can not guarantee that my crank pulley is correctly calibrated to my ECU. I can not guarantee that your car is correctly calibrated or the same as mine.

For my operating conditions (which was the summer mix of e85)

13psi - 16BTDC
18psi - 10BTDC

is survibable even without water injection. For 9.7:1 rotors I would use a similar process to what I used. Start at

13psi - 12BTDC
18psi - 5BTDC

and slowly lean on it more and more.

I think theres a reason why my engine has lasted so long and most of it is my process which is impossible for paid labor to do.
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Old 05-03-11, 12:39 PM
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Found out our cars love around 12.3:1 AFR's on E85.
Before I was running in the 11's. Leaned it out and it made my car a completely different car. VERY noticable improvement and pretty much detonation proof!
I have a friend who ran 40PSI at 14:1 AFR's on E85 and it didn't do a thing to the motor.
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Old 05-13-11, 06:37 AM
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So you mentioned you're original timing chart was a little conservative. Can you post what you're running now? Unfortunately I'm 5000 miles away from my car, else I'd make these changes this weekend. Guess it'll have to wait. I can't post up my timing either as I don't have my maps with me.
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Old 05-13-11, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by RXTASY57 View Post
Found out our cars love around 12.3:1 AFR's on E85.
Before I was running in the 11's. Leaned it out and it made my car a completely different car. VERY noticable improvement and pretty much detonation proof!
I have a friend who ran 40PSI at 14:1 AFR's on E85 and it didn't do a thing to the motor.
Keep in mind that this is displayed from a Gas AFR gauge based on 14.7:1 stoich, so 12.3:1 is actually 0.83 Lambda and is actually somewhere around 8.1:1 AFR (based on 9.7:1 stoich for E85)

I just wouldn't want someone to read this and calibrate a meter to E85, run 1.27 lambda and be crazy lean.

I'm guessing the friend is running a piston engine?
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Old 05-13-11, 04:27 PM
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Which I think most people do anyway; leave the WB calibrated for gas.

Perhaps it would be best to just reference lambda for all AFR conversations just so there's no confusion.
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