Anything new to report on E85?
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2001
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From: aloha,OR.Usa
Hi Chrspeed, how many injectors are you using. We run my 1000rwhp supra, a turbo s2000, supercharged corvette, and next a RX7? E85. we are running 700rwhp with c16 gt42r76 @ 34psi at 82 % duty cycle 2X850s abd 4X1600cc with a PFC. I was wondering if I went to a peak hold inj driver box if the extr fuel from the box would give us 15-20% extra fuel we need,we always can increase the rail pressure also. I am trying to get away from adding more injectors. Ralph
Last edited by Xcessive; Sep 27, 2007 at 02:20 AM.
'Tuna'
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,637
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From: Miami,Fl,USA
Hi Chrspeed, how many injectors are you using. We run my 1000rwhp supra, a turbo s2000, supercharged corvette, and next a RX7? E85. we are running 700rwhp with c16 gt42r76 @ 34psi at 82 % duty cycle 2X850s abd 4X1600cc with a PFC. I was wondering if I went to a peak hold inj driver box if the extr fuel from the box would give us 15-20% extra fuel we need,we always can increase the rail pressure also. I am trying to get away from adding more injectors. Ralph
I've seen one person at 30 psi and another close to 40 psi.
On the rx-7 there are 6 X 1600cc injectors and two mechanical nozzles to run at extreme pressures.
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 6,279
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From: Florence, Alabama
hi Ralph,
while not having the experience of Crispeed i have logged 1000 miles and a number of dyno runs w the FJO Peak & Hold convertor on my secondaries. it appears that the conversion from resistors-saturated to the FJO P&H box saves between 5 and 7% base fuel. i am running 850 primaries saturated BTW.
howard
while not having the experience of Crispeed i have logged 1000 miles and a number of dyno runs w the FJO Peak & Hold convertor on my secondaries. it appears that the conversion from resistors-saturated to the FJO P&H box saves between 5 and 7% base fuel. i am running 850 primaries saturated BTW.
howard
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Joined: Mar 2001
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From: lebanon
does your car smell like a lawn mower/whipper snipper/chain saw !
When running 100% Methanol/Alcohol is not uncommon to double your premix. My choice in premix lubricant for those type of fuels would be some type of 'castor' oil.
BeNol from Klotz or RC-3 from VP fuels are my choice in pre-mix.
Premix levels are normally 8-12oz per 5 gallons of fuel.
Ethanol being not as corrosive especially in E85 format would require less pre-mix offcourse.
BeNol from Klotz or RC-3 from VP fuels are my choice in pre-mix.
Premix levels are normally 8-12oz per 5 gallons of fuel.
Ethanol being not as corrosive especially in E85 format would require less pre-mix offcourse.
thats 50:1 to 80:1 fuel/oil ratio, almost as much as users of inferior indestructable apex seals need to run on C16 or normal gasoline LOl !!!
easy question, you don't have to give away any secrets or details.....
Have you seen any rotaries put down over 700 whp on E85 ?
Did the one you were tuning make any good power ?
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2001
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From: aloha,OR.Usa
Chrispeed, All of our e85 and E98 boosted cars run no more than 25-35psi because all run out of injectors and the ecus we run dont accept staged injectors.
I am running 90% ethenol and 10% 110 race gas in my supra but even at 70psi
base pressure 160lb inj,s I cant hit over 28psi wiyhout the inj duty cycle above
90%. I think we are going to put water alky injection on and use as seconary fuel
but I dont know how far that will take us or piggy back secondary fuel injection.
Thanks howard for the input on the driverbox. Also chris we use a lot of fast ecus with auto wideband tune on the street, and anything else added like water alky will make this option nonusable. We let the ecu add fuel up to 25% an it also adjusts nitrous AFR automatically with a dry shot.
Ralph
I am running 90% ethenol and 10% 110 race gas in my supra but even at 70psi
base pressure 160lb inj,s I cant hit over 28psi wiyhout the inj duty cycle above
90%. I think we are going to put water alky injection on and use as seconary fuel
but I dont know how far that will take us or piggy back secondary fuel injection.
Thanks howard for the input on the driverbox. Also chris we use a lot of fast ecus with auto wideband tune on the street, and anything else added like water alky will make this option nonusable. We let the ecu add fuel up to 25% an it also adjusts nitrous AFR automatically with a dry shot.
Ralph
'Tuna'
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,637
Likes: 3
From: Miami,Fl,USA
Chrispeed, All of our e85 and E98 boosted cars run no more than 25-35psi because all run out of injectors and the ecus we run dont accept staged injectors.
I am running 90% ethenol and 10% 110 race gas in my supra but even at 70psi
base pressure 160lb inj,s I cant hit over 28psi wiyhout the inj duty cycle above
90%. I think we are going to put water alky injection on and use as seconary fuel
but I dont know how far that will take us or piggy back secondary fuel injection.
Thanks howard for the input on the driverbox. Also chris we use a lot of fast ecus with auto wideband tune on the street, and anything else added like water alky will make this option nonusable. We let the ecu add fuel up to 25% an it also adjusts nitrous AFR automatically with a dry shot.
Ralph
I am running 90% ethenol and 10% 110 race gas in my supra but even at 70psi
base pressure 160lb inj,s I cant hit over 28psi wiyhout the inj duty cycle above
90%. I think we are going to put water alky injection on and use as seconary fuel
but I dont know how far that will take us or piggy back secondary fuel injection.
Thanks howard for the input on the driverbox. Also chris we use a lot of fast ecus with auto wideband tune on the street, and anything else added like water alky will make this option nonusable. We let the ecu add fuel up to 25% an it also adjusts nitrous AFR automatically with a dry shot.
Ralph
I have a stock JDM auto 2JZ in a Honda S-2 with a single turbo and 1000cc injectors running on E-85 and the injectors are allready at 70% duty cycle at only 540rwhp and 21psi,
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2001
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From: aloha,OR.Usa
Chris do you know any place that can increase the size of top feed injectors like to 200lb ? Motec sells 320lb injectors but say they are for gas not fuel. What we need is larger injectors to choose from. Ralph
'Tuna'
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,637
Likes: 3
From: Miami,Fl,USA
I can get those if you're interested. They only come on one vechicle and it's not here in the US hence the expensive price.
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 287
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From: aloha,OR.Usa
Chris I am interested, pm me a price please. Also the 3200cc injector I talked about above is on RC engineerings site, but I couldnt get my supra to idle with that big, so 2200cc would be perfect. Ralph
RevHard Inc. E85 DSM (EAgle Talon 10.62 @ 141mph (July '07).
Video: http://www.revhardinc.com/shop%20vids/10_6trent.wmv
http://www.revhardinc.com/
-1995 Eagle Talon.
-1600cc injectors
-MagnaFuel Protuner fuel pump
-733whp
-2.0L
-AEM EMS
-Borg Warner 66mm turbo
John and the guys at RevHard appear to work as hard as they play and rev. This car is a good example of a fast car tuned with "off the shelf" parts on E85. The hard bits in the fuel system are ethanol compatible, flow a lot more, and he uses the same tuning equipment he would use on gas just with different targets. The car is caged with license plates, leather seats and power windows. John has tuned with E85 for 8 years and swears by it as his fuel of choice.
Video: http://www.revhardinc.com/shop%20vids/10_6trent.wmv
http://www.revhardinc.com/
-1995 Eagle Talon.
-1600cc injectors
-MagnaFuel Protuner fuel pump
-733whp
-2.0L
-AEM EMS
-Borg Warner 66mm turbo
John and the guys at RevHard appear to work as hard as they play and rev. This car is a good example of a fast car tuned with "off the shelf" parts on E85. The hard bits in the fuel system are ethanol compatible, flow a lot more, and he uses the same tuning equipment he would use on gas just with different targets. The car is caged with license plates, leather seats and power windows. John has tuned with E85 for 8 years and swears by it as his fuel of choice.
Kevin Guthrie is campaigning this 1962 Chevrolet Bel Air on E85 pump gas. The 3600 pound car is currently running 7’s, with an F-3R helping to produce in excess of 2,000 horsepower.
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 6,279
Likes: 728
From: Florence, Alabama
there are certainly some advantages when you replace all or a great part of your base fuel with alcohol.
one of the most important, especially w the rotary, is the fact that gasoline's (and this includes racegas) auto ignition temperature is 660 F.
alcohol... (meth and eth) is 858 F.
hc
one of the most important, especially w the rotary, is the fact that gasoline's (and this includes racegas) auto ignition temperature is 660 F.
alcohol... (meth and eth) is 858 F.
hc
Just a copy and paste from a article I read.
Fuel | BTU per US Gallon | Research Octane Number (RON)
================================================== =========
Gasoline | 125,000 BTU | 91
Ethanol | 84,600 BTU | 129
E85 | 90,700 BTU | 120
Gasohol | 120,900 BTU | 93
Diesel | 138,700 BTU | (cetane)
E85 contains 72.5% of the energy that is contained in gasoline (91 oct). If your car currently gets 30 miles per gallon (MPG) you could expect to see drop in mileage proportional to difference in energy between the two fuels which would be about 22 MPG on E85 or a drop of 27.5%.
When you convert your car from gasoline to E85 you are not increasing the efficiency of your car, so it is going to still require the same amount of energy to go down the road and accelerate which means using more fuel.
One advantage for forced induction (turbo charged and super charged) engines is running on E85 allows you to run higher levels of boost since the auto ignition point (detonation) of E85 is much higher then gasoline. You could actually remove or not use an inter-cooler in most cases where you are running 20 psi of boost which would increase the volumetric (pump) efficiency of the engine. There have been cars in California for years running on M85 (85% methanol, 15% gasoline) with turbos running very high boost levels (30-35 psi) without a problem.
================================================== =========
Gasoline | 125,000 BTU | 91
Ethanol | 84,600 BTU | 129
E85 | 90,700 BTU | 120
Gasohol | 120,900 BTU | 93
Diesel | 138,700 BTU | (cetane)
E85 contains 72.5% of the energy that is contained in gasoline (91 oct). If your car currently gets 30 miles per gallon (MPG) you could expect to see drop in mileage proportional to difference in energy between the two fuels which would be about 22 MPG on E85 or a drop of 27.5%.
When you convert your car from gasoline to E85 you are not increasing the efficiency of your car, so it is going to still require the same amount of energy to go down the road and accelerate which means using more fuel.
One advantage for forced induction (turbo charged and super charged) engines is running on E85 allows you to run higher levels of boost since the auto ignition point (detonation) of E85 is much higher then gasoline. You could actually remove or not use an inter-cooler in most cases where you are running 20 psi of boost which would increase the volumetric (pump) efficiency of the engine. There have been cars in California for years running on M85 (85% methanol, 15% gasoline) with turbos running very high boost levels (30-35 psi) without a problem.