Rear steering
06-11-07, 03:37 PM
#1
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Rear steering
Ok, I dont know how many knew this but I didnt. Did you know our cars have rear steering!!
"Rear Steer" was added to the RX-7 beginning with the 86 model. The rear geometry reacts to cornering "G" forces by changing the toe alignment on each wheel depending on the speed, loads, and body roll. The sensation the driver feels is the front wanting to steer into the corner, but is actually the rear steering to the outside of the corner. This all happens right when a sensitive driver is expecting the rear end to begin a slight slide which the driver would compensate for by some degree of opposite-lock steering input."
The way I found out about needed to replace my Rear Toe Eliminator Bushings. My car went into the shop today to get the rear bearings replaced. My mechanic told me that the bushings for the rear toe were shot(I saw them. when he took the hub off). The car drives like shiit rearend gives out, like the car drives side ways. I ordered them from RB(bushing $48 a pair), Mazda was telling me the whole hub($600) needed to be replace just for the bushing thank god I trust my mechanic, anyone else would of just replaced the hub and that would be it.
"Rear Steer" was added to the RX-7 beginning with the 86 model. The rear geometry reacts to cornering "G" forces by changing the toe alignment on each wheel depending on the speed, loads, and body roll. The sensation the driver feels is the front wanting to steer into the corner, but is actually the rear steering to the outside of the corner. This all happens right when a sensitive driver is expecting the rear end to begin a slight slide which the driver would compensate for by some degree of opposite-lock steering input."
The way I found out about needed to replace my Rear Toe Eliminator Bushings. My car went into the shop today to get the rear bearings replaced. My mechanic told me that the bushings for the rear toe were shot(I saw them. when he took the hub off). The car drives like shiit rearend gives out, like the car drives side ways. I ordered them from RB(bushing $48 a pair), Mazda was telling me the whole hub($600) needed to be replace just for the bushing thank god I trust my mechanic, anyone else would of just replaced the hub and that would be it.
06-11-07, 04:07 PM
#3
The way I found out about needed to replace my Rear Toe Eliminator Bushings. My car went into the shop today to get the rear bearings replaced. My mechanic told me that the bushings for the rear toe were shot(I saw them. when he took the hub off). The car drives like shiit rearend gives out, like the car drives side ways. I ordered them from RB(bushing $48 a pair), Mazda was telling me the whole hub($600) needed to be replace just for the bushing thank god I trust my mechanic, anyone else would of just replaced the hub and that would be it.
And is this thread serious?
06-11-07, 04:14 PM
#4
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Yeah, its the DTSS System . What do you think DTSS eliminators are for ?
http://d97250.t55.worria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=515
http://d97250.t55.worria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=515
06-11-07, 04:23 PM
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Yes. It's right here.
http://howto.globalvicinity.com/gv_w...i=71&co=1&vi=1
http://howto.globalvicinity.com/gv_w...i=71&co=1&vi=1
06-11-07, 05:15 PM
#7
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http://mazdatrix.com/h6_86-92.htm scroll down to rear suspension on 86-92 RX7
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06-11-07, 06:38 PM
#9
Ok, I dont know how many knew this but I didnt. Did you know our cars have rear steering!!
"Rear Steer" was added to the RX-7 beginning with the 86 model. The rear geometry reacts to cornering "G" forces by changing the toe alignment on each wheel depending on the speed, loads, and body roll. The sensation the driver feels is the front wanting to steer into the corner, but is actually the rear steering to the outside of the corner. This all happens right when a sensitive driver is expecting the rear end to begin a slight slide which the driver would compensate for by some degree of opposite-lock steering input."
The way I found out about needed to replace my Rear Toe Eliminator Bushings. My car went into the shop today to get the rear bearings replaced. My mechanic told me that the bushings for the rear toe were shot(I saw them. when he took the hub off). The car drives like shiit rearend gives out, like the car drives side ways. I ordered them from RB(bushing $48 a pair), Mazda was telling me the whole hub($600) needed to be replace just for the bushing thank god I trust my mechanic, anyone else would of just replaced the hub and that would be it.
"Rear Steer" was added to the RX-7 beginning with the 86 model. The rear geometry reacts to cornering "G" forces by changing the toe alignment on each wheel depending on the speed, loads, and body roll. The sensation the driver feels is the front wanting to steer into the corner, but is actually the rear steering to the outside of the corner. This all happens right when a sensitive driver is expecting the rear end to begin a slight slide which the driver would compensate for by some degree of opposite-lock steering input."
The way I found out about needed to replace my Rear Toe Eliminator Bushings. My car went into the shop today to get the rear bearings replaced. My mechanic told me that the bushings for the rear toe were shot(I saw them. when he took the hub off). The car drives like shiit rearend gives out, like the car drives side ways. I ordered them from RB(bushing $48 a pair), Mazda was telling me the whole hub($600) needed to be replace just for the bushing thank god I trust my mechanic, anyone else would of just replaced the hub and that would be it.
And I wouldn't trust your mechanic. You got Rear Toe DTSS Eliminator Bushings. As in, you eliminated your DTSS. You don't have it anymore. Your broken DTSS isn't making your rearend give out anymore but your rear-wheels won't steer either. Your car will feel more "normal" at its cornering limits compared to an RX-7 with working rear-wheel steering, but it won't be able to corner as fast and you'll get some oversteer whenever your car breaks loose from a turn (oversteer = whenever you lose traction your car turns extra in the same direction you were turning).
Btw, is Mazda really selling the assembly for $600 now? I heard it was $180 for the 2 bushings plus the 2 arms connected to them. I hope the price hasn't gone up. Or maybe the $600 includes labor? Or the other suspension parts that also needed to be replaced?
Last edited by ericgrau; 06-11-07 at 06:51 PM.
06-11-07, 06:53 PM
#10
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The car drives like this down the road when steering to the right, which is the bad bushing side. I saw the bushings, the right side is loose which is causing the rear to head for the ditch with slight movement of the steering wheel. Didnt do that before. Apperantly when he took the hub off to replace the bearing he was loosening the toe bolt, it made the bushing spin and loose. Either way they NEEDED to be replaced anyway. When I replaced all the bushing with the master kit last summer, those were not included in the kit.
Diagram(sketch):
/- -/ Front
\- -\ Rear -->
Hope you get this pic :p
Diagram(sketch):
/- -/ Front
\- -\ Rear -->
Hope you get this pic :p
06-11-07, 07:02 PM
#11
The eliminator bushings will fix your problem just fine. I'm just saying that you won't have rear-steering anymore. The stock bushings have just ther right amount of give in them to let the rear wheels steer during a hard turn. The eliminator bushes are rigid and will not let the rear wheels steer. As a wild guess I'd presume that broken bushings let the rear wheels steer too easily, making the car go out of control.
06-11-07, 11:26 PM
#12
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
From Mazdamark.com:
The rear suspension was more unique. As all the Japanese automotive manufactures were playing with rear steering in the mid -eighties, the RX-7 followed suite with an independent, Dynamic Tracking Suspension System with trailing arms, Triaxial floating hubs, camber control links, coil springs, and a 12 mm anti-roll bar (14 mm with the Heavy Duty suspension). Mazda claims to have applied for more than 100 patents on their Dynamic Tracking Suspension System independent rear suspension.
With DTSS, the rear wheels become an active component of the steering system, changing from toe-out during low lateral force cornering to toe-in for extra stability during high lateral acceleration cornering and braking situations and to reduce lift throttle over steer which had been a problem on the 1st generation[RX-7]. Similar systems were soon found on Porsche and other German manufactures vehicles.
With DTSS, the rear wheels become an active component of the steering system, changing from toe-out during low lateral force cornering to toe-in for extra stability during high lateral acceleration cornering and braking situations and to reduce lift throttle over steer which had been a problem on the 1st generation[RX-7]. Similar systems were soon found on Porsche and other German manufactures vehicles.
06-12-07, 12:18 AM
#13
Freebasing mountain roads
Ya Know, now that its mentioned. I went for a very spirited drive yesterday morning on the Parkway from 276 past Cruso to Haywood gap and back to my driveway. 52.4 miles round trip, done the speed limit all the way to where I turned around (26.2 miles). After turning around, I pushed my car very hard. As I want into a curve, I would notice that after a certain amount of resistance that I was used to in a hard cornering, that all of the sudden the wheel would become very soft, meaning that I could turn the wheel very easily after setting the car in a curve. I have driven this car faster through sharp curves on mountain roads than many people EVER get to push there 7s. Never have I felt the sensation that I did yesterday. I spent 2 days carving up Dills Gap (Tail of the Dragon) in April, and everyone was going as fast as the car in front of them. Yesterday is the first time I ever felt the "4 wheel steering" on my car. The previous day I had just put a new pulse damper on my car, And I drove the car like it was new. Maybe the car felt new!? but I doubt I pushed it any harder than at the DGRR. But to turn a happy for me story sour... today, got in my 7 to go fetch my check(payday) put on my seat belt, start the car, Go to put the car into first gear then reverse...........The TOB or clutch was making Hella noise, shifts fine, drives fine, but makes a undescribable clicky slapping noise. Oh well, at least it was new for a day LOL
06-12-07, 06:27 PM
#14
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The eliminator bushings will fix your problem just fine. I'm just saying that you won't have rear-steering anymore. The stock bushings have just ther right amount of give in them to let the rear wheels steer during a hard turn. The eliminator bushes are rigid and will not let the rear wheels steer. As a wild guess I'd presume that broken bushings let the rear wheels steer too easily, making the car go out of control.
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