RotorMotor

iTrader: (5)

does anyone else feel like the abs comes on a bit too early, or is it just me? im running stock pads/lines as of now.

skunks

prehaps you have either really good tires or super crappy tires, in anycase, i like the abs system although i wish my brakes would be a bit more firm/stronger.

Personnaly, I know I have a bit of a problem in the hydrolic system of my car (my car feels like a normal car's brakes , they don't catch the way FD brakes are suppose to grab although I do seem to beable to stop from 60mph within the lenght of an average intersection lenght).

93BlackFD

abs is tuned for your stock tire/wheel size....so if you upgrade your rims, it's never going to work as good....

fyi, that's why i'm ripping mine out

SilverRX7

Only if your actual rolling radii or tire friction changes significantly will upgraded tires/rims affect the abs. Even then, there is a range within the abs cals...

BigIslandSevens

iTrader: (4)

I yanked mine off. I hate not being in control of my braking force. Just like traction control. Feed that crap to the fish is my opinion.I've driven in every type of condition with ABS(snow,rain,ice,dry,dirt,etc...)In many types of vehicles.and they ALL sucked. Came on way to early and you loose complete feeling in the steering wheel. BUT others love it and wouldn't drive without it. So diferent strokes for diferent fokes!!

the_glass_man

iTrader: (2)

Well, the engine bay sure looks nice without all the crap and you will save a few pounds. On the other hand your car won't stop any sooner, and you might wish you had abs some rainy day when something just jumps right infront of you and you lock the brakes.

the_glass_man

iTrader: (2)

dp.

djantlive

I wouldn't buy a car w/o abs. The whole point of having brakes is to stop in the shortest distance, not to necessarily have the fullest control. No human can pump brakes at 30+ times/sec.

Traction control maybe a little different since you can get faster without traction control.

The whole idea of a sports car is to go fast and stop short. Believe it or not, stopping power can reduce your lap time since you can drive faster into a corner and still brake fast enough before the apex.

DamonB

For a car that spends the majority of time on the street I would never be without ABS.

For a pure track car I could do without it.

bureau_c

Well, pumping the brakes at any speed is not the fastest way to stop, right? I've read that perfect application of the brakes so that its just almost but not quite to the point of locking up. The thing is, in a panic stop the tendency is to slam them on, which is usually too much force. The ABS will prevent lock-up in that case, but if it really provided the most stopping power you'd find them on Formula One cars and everything else.

I agree with some of the other guys though...for street driving its a must-have.

jds

SilverRX7

With ABS, you gain steering control(at least for street driving).

I challenge any nonbeliever to go to a track with lo-co winter surfaces and do some straighlight, stop and turn, and split-co braking.

After doing this with abs and without abs(disabled by disconnecteing a wheel speed sensor)- I guaranttee that 99% of people will believe in ABS. There is always going to be that 1% that is more ignorant and arrogant and absolutely nothing will convince them

DamonB

It is true that ABS actually has slightly poorer stopping distances than a perfectly modulated brake pedal at the threshold. That's been proven.

Now, am I going to be able to perfectly modulate the pedal in an emergency situation on the road when a Suburban drives out in front of me and my heart jumps into my throat while I am wincing and bracing for a possible impact? Hell no. I will take the ABS so I can just jam the pedal down while the car slows. I am thinking about not having an accident here, not about maximum performance driving.

On a racetrack I am concentrating on nothing but driving the car quickly and I would prefer to be without ABS, as I believe my concentration can brake the car at least as well or possibly better. But I sure as heck don't have that concentration when I am driving to work, or the grocery store, to the cleaners, etc. In the real world ABS is a wonderful thing.

SilverRX7

Keep in mind, that better stopping distance is not on wet or snowy roads. You will only see better stopping distances in good conditions with a nonABS car.
In any event though, you always gain steerability - which is worth its weight in gold while avoiding an accident.

DamonB

Sometimes. Maximum threshold braking would still outperform ABS here, but it is much more difficult to modulate the pedal due to the low cf of the surface. 99.5% of drivers probably don't have the "feel" to do it here anyway, and therefore ABS would outperform.

ABS is truly fantastic when each tire has varying traction. The ABS can modulate the slipping tire while holding max pressure on the gripping tire. No matter how talented a person's foot, you could never do that with just a brake pedal.

lleone

There's another consideration on the track... a driver who locks his brakes up will proceed in a straight line. This is completely predicatable to any drivers whom might be behind them. A driver with ABS often performs in an unpredictable fashion in these situations.

My personal two cents though is that I'd rather have the ABS even on the track.

Lou

Shinobi-X

I agree.

How much do formula cars weigh? If the car is light enough, ABS is often not needed, especially on controlled track conditions, where most factors are under precise control of the racing team and driver.

moconnor

iTrader: (14)

F1 cars do not have ABS because the regulations forbid it. Every team would have it in weeks if the regulations allowed it.

bureau_c

Given DamonB's comments on wheels with varying traction, that may be true. I had not considered that case.

jds

RotorMotor

iTrader: (5)

interesting... is this true? "The ABS can modulate the slipping tire while holding max pressure on the gripping tire." i thought that was the special 16bit computer controlled braking on the 99+ FD's? i was under the impression that all the wheels did the same thing on our cars. i have new bridgestone s02's and stock rims. the abs just seems to come on too early.... can i just take the abs fuse out to temporarily disable abs?

RotorMotor

iTrader: (5)

sorry, i meant that all the wheels locked up and released at the same time on teh 93-95 fd's

rynberg

Anyone who doubts the stopping ability of ABS, even on dry surfaces should look at the braking distance of the new Viper compared to the old ones.

The last gen Vipers were all at around 120 ft from 60 mph, which is really good w/o ABS. The new Viper, with only slightly wider tires (but more unsprung weight) does it in about 100-105 ft.

Also, I think DamonB's comments were spot on. No one will ever be able to outbrake ABS in dry or wet in daily driving.

The only time ABS is a hindrance in street situations is in snow. Having all four tires locked up and skidding often will stop faster than letting the ABS try to cycle to prevent lock-up.

DamonB

Nope. Specifically the FD has a 3 channel ABS system. The two fronts can be independently pulsed (and that's where most of your braking force comes from) while the two rears are in fact pulsed simultaneously. So your statement is true for the rears, but not the fronts.

4 channel systems now are nearly the complete norm with the advent of traction and stability controls, but in the time the FD was built they were only in the most expensive of cars.

RotorMotor

iTrader: (5)

so what was the improvement to the 99+ brakes that everyone was talking about? also does simply removing the abs fuse disable the system?

COsborne

Anyone have an idea why the front passenger side wheel would lock up? I'd run diagnostics but I have an aftermarket gauge cluster and haltech

DamonB

The 99 brakes are bigger. I don't know if the ABS system is different or not, but I doubt it is.

I think so.