you need to know about REFORMULATED OIL!!!! REVISITED AGAIN JULY 08
09-02-08, 09:55 PM
#101
Eye In The Sky
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I am glad that I been using normal RP 5-30 since rebuilding my engine back in 1999. Stock intake ports and small ported exhaust.
A few months ago, I built my own electronic compressor testor and finally used a high pressure industrial refinery gauge to calibrate it. Originally I used the pressure gauge from a PeP-Boys compression tester to calibrated it. The PeP-Boy's gave a higher reading than the industrial gauge. My tester is almost identical to one advertised by a well known rotary shop. I posted about it on the PFC forumn.
Mileage on the engine was just over 34k.
Front rotor compression was 124psi. Rear was 122 psi. This was at 289 rpm.
The engine was running 350 whp from 1999 till Jan 2005. Since then it has been
running close to 390 whp on a GT35R T3 1.06 AR.
A few months ago, I built my own electronic compressor testor and finally used a high pressure industrial refinery gauge to calibrate it. Originally I used the pressure gauge from a PeP-Boys compression tester to calibrated it. The PeP-Boy's gave a higher reading than the industrial gauge. My tester is almost identical to one advertised by a well known rotary shop. I posted about it on the PFC forumn.
Mileage on the engine was just over 34k.
Front rotor compression was 124psi. Rear was 122 psi. This was at 289 rpm.
The engine was running 350 whp from 1999 till Jan 2005. Since then it has been
running close to 390 whp on a GT35R T3 1.06 AR.
Last edited by cewrx7r1; 09-02-08 at 10:00 PM.
09-03-08, 06:41 AM
#103
Racing Rotary Since 1983
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Chuck,
would you please provide this thread w the link to your digital comp tester? i searched and couldn't find it in the PFC Section. i plan to build one. i assume you used an old compression tester fitting, ran it into a 0-200 digital pressure sensor and thru the Datlogit?
as to oil... i am sticking w 5-30 Mobil One and after i run thru my last case of the GM 4 oz bottles will switch to ZDDP Plus.
hc
would you please provide this thread w the link to your digital comp tester? i searched and couldn't find it in the PFC Section. i plan to build one. i assume you used an old compression tester fitting, ran it into a 0-200 digital pressure sensor and thru the Datlogit?
as to oil... i am sticking w 5-30 Mobil One and after i run thru my last case of the GM 4 oz bottles will switch to ZDDP Plus.
hc
09-03-08, 10:16 AM
#104
Racing Spirit
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ANyone know the specs for the racing greddy oil? I know they formulated a special blend for boosted engines and the shop i'm in now is running a special on it.
I'v been using mobil one w/ gm additive but now i'll switch to royal purple and their 2 stroke oil.
How much are you guys premixing?
Dyno Tune / Track = 10oz (2stroke) for 5 Gallons Fuel
I'v been using mobil one w/ gm additive but now i'll switch to royal purple and their 2 stroke oil.
How much are you guys premixing?
Dyno Tune / Track = 10oz (2stroke) for 5 Gallons Fuel
Last edited by kwerks; 09-03-08 at 10:21 AM.
09-03-08, 10:40 AM
#105
Eye In The Sky
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Chuck,
would you please provide this thread w the link to your digital comp tester? i searched and couldn't find it in the PFC Section. i plan to build one. i assume you used an old compression tester fitting, ran it into a 0-200 digital pressure sensor and thru the Datlogit?hc
would you please provide this thread w the link to your digital comp tester? i searched and couldn't find it in the PFC Section. i plan to build one. i assume you used an old compression tester fitting, ran it into a 0-200 digital pressure sensor and thru the Datlogit?hc
Go to http://rotarydiagnostics.com/ to see their version and you can download their manual on how to setup.
Last edited by cewrx7r1; 09-03-08 at 10:43 AM.
09-05-08, 06:14 PM
#106
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Grab a cup of coffee and a dictionary and take a look at this. This document attempts to explain how science 'thinks' this ZDDP stuff works.
Pretty interesting.
http://home.physics.wisc.edu/gilbert...cations/85.PDF
Pretty interesting.
http://home.physics.wisc.edu/gilbert...cations/85.PDF
02-14-10, 04:11 PM
#107
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Wanted to bring this back from the dead to give a bump to Brad Penn.
I have been running Brad Penn for over 20,000kms on the Rx-8 and it has always started excellent and ran smooth and silent.
However, during my last oil change I reverted back to Castrol GTX because I ran out of Brad Penn and had some Castrol GTX lying around the garage, what a bad move. Initially, the Castrol felt slightly worse than the Brad Penn but after 2,000km it felt like complete sludge and starts were hard and the engine ran smooth. another 1,000kms and I couldn't tolerate this anymore.
Back to Brad Penn and everything feels back to how great it was, I would say Brad Penn after 5,000km feels like Castrol after 2,000km.
I have been running Brad Penn for over 20,000kms on the Rx-8 and it has always started excellent and ran smooth and silent.
However, during my last oil change I reverted back to Castrol GTX because I ran out of Brad Penn and had some Castrol GTX lying around the garage, what a bad move. Initially, the Castrol felt slightly worse than the Brad Penn but after 2,000km it felt like complete sludge and starts were hard and the engine ran smooth. another 1,000kms and I couldn't tolerate this anymore.
Back to Brad Penn and everything feels back to how great it was, I would say Brad Penn after 5,000km feels like Castrol after 2,000km.
04-29-10, 11:55 AM
#109
Racing Rotary Since 1983
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i am really happy to see this important subject get a bump.... thanks.
ZDDP+ is the product to buy. here's a link that will answer most of your questions.:
http://www.zddplus.com/
howard
ZDDP+ is the product to buy. here's a link that will answer most of your questions.:
http://www.zddplus.com/
howard
05-01-10, 11:57 AM
#111
Okay guys... so here is my story and reason for considering an engine cleaning procedure. In a nut shell, I bought the car about a month ago, the car had a reman installed with what is now approx: 16k miles. The secondary turbo was not working due to a vacuum leak which the seller I believed had mistaken for what he had told me was a slipping clutch. Due to the nature of how the secondary turbo would spool up intermittently I could see how somone would easily mistake it for a clutch that is beginning to slip. On top of that, the car had a clogged ndownpipe that was causing considerable water temp issues. It was at this point, and after inspecting the sparkplugs, that I decided the engine could use a good internal combustion cleaning.
On to my little experiment, so far I am finished with phase one...
I did two compression tests today, both were done on a warm engine approx 10 to 15 minutes after shut down...
These were my base line compression tests: (Oil has approx 2,500 miles of use)
-Test 1: Rear rotor 101 psi, Front rotor 106 psi (Vacuum 17 inches)
-Test 2: Rear rotor 100 psi, Front rotor 108 psi (Vacuum 17 inches)
Following the base line readings, I did a steam clean of the engine. I decided to go with the steam cleaning method versus sea foam primarily due to the fact that I have not read enough testimonials / experiences with this product and its effects on the engine long term.
My steam cleaning method was as follows: I used half a gallon of distilled water that was hooked up to the nipple on the UIM that runs to the pressure release valve (the black OEM bov). With my friend holding the jug of water and me in the drivers seat, he dropped the vacuum line and instantly the RPMS on the car will drop and the car will nearly stall (I kept the RPMS @ around 4k, periodically redlining the motor.) I did this until there was no more water left in the jug and kept revving the engine for roughly 10 more minutes.
I let the car idle and it seemed stable so I shut the car down, let it cool for 15 minutes and did my second compression test.
These were the compression numbers and vaccume following the Steam cleaning method.
-Test 1: Rear rotor 111 psi, Front rotor 120 psi (Vacuum 19 inches)
-Test 2: Rear rotor 110 psi, Front rotor 120 psi (Vacuum 19 inches) - This was done an hour after the initial compression test
So... following the steam cleaning method, the compression on both rotors increased by a minimum of 10 psi and the vacuum increased by 2 inches.
Following this process, I changed my oil with the usual royal purple 20w40 but I added a little twist (ZDDplus) addative...
I will be doing another compression test in 500 miles...
On to my little experiment, so far I am finished with phase one...
I did two compression tests today, both were done on a warm engine approx 10 to 15 minutes after shut down...
These were my base line compression tests: (Oil has approx 2,500 miles of use)
-Test 1: Rear rotor 101 psi, Front rotor 106 psi (Vacuum 17 inches)
-Test 2: Rear rotor 100 psi, Front rotor 108 psi (Vacuum 17 inches)
Following the base line readings, I did a steam clean of the engine. I decided to go with the steam cleaning method versus sea foam primarily due to the fact that I have not read enough testimonials / experiences with this product and its effects on the engine long term.
My steam cleaning method was as follows: I used half a gallon of distilled water that was hooked up to the nipple on the UIM that runs to the pressure release valve (the black OEM bov). With my friend holding the jug of water and me in the drivers seat, he dropped the vacuum line and instantly the RPMS on the car will drop and the car will nearly stall (I kept the RPMS @ around 4k, periodically redlining the motor.) I did this until there was no more water left in the jug and kept revving the engine for roughly 10 more minutes.
I let the car idle and it seemed stable so I shut the car down, let it cool for 15 minutes and did my second compression test.
These were the compression numbers and vaccume following the Steam cleaning method.
-Test 1: Rear rotor 111 psi, Front rotor 120 psi (Vacuum 19 inches)
-Test 2: Rear rotor 110 psi, Front rotor 120 psi (Vacuum 19 inches) - This was done an hour after the initial compression test
So... following the steam cleaning method, the compression on both rotors increased by a minimum of 10 psi and the vacuum increased by 2 inches.
Following this process, I changed my oil with the usual royal purple 20w40 but I added a little twist (ZDDplus) addative...
I will be doing another compression test in 500 miles...
05-01-10, 01:07 PM
#113
John Dillinger
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will this zddplus work with ceramic seals? anyone know about this? Thank you. and can anyone here tell me what oil to use for breaking in ? and what oil to use after? i don't mind spending some $$$ for some high quality oil. btw, i'm running ceramic seals. Thank you
05-02-10, 07:43 AM
#114
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i run ceramic seals. they are real happy looking after a year of ZDDP and will be going back in my motor when i reassemble it next week. i took it apart soley out of curiosity and expect to see 600 rw this year.
howard
howard
05-15-10, 01:47 PM
#115
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I just bought 6 bottles of zddp. I do not drive my car much so that will easily last me this year.
On the eastwood.com site you can save a few bucks if you enter FACEBOOK as a discount code.
RX7club costs money and google saved me some money hehe.
On the eastwood.com site you can save a few bucks if you enter FACEBOOK as a discount code.
RX7club costs money and google saved me some money hehe.
05-15-10, 03:02 PM
#116
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m other car is a 58 triumph tr3, and in the old car piston engine land this stuff
http://www.castrol.com/castrol/produ...tentId=6031112
castrol HD 40 is the hot ticket.
http://www.castrol.com/castrol/produ...tentId=6031112
castrol HD 40 is the hot ticket.
06-09-10, 12:16 AM
#117
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Using The Calculator w/ ZDDPlus & Mobil 1
Using the calculator with Mobil 1 5w30 and ZDDPlus I come up with adding 25-31% of a 4oz ZDDPlus to each oil change. That's $2.50 an oil change and insurance I'll take, not the $10 claims of others.
06-10-10, 02:01 PM
#118
Racing Rotary Since 1983
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"On the eastwood.com site you can save a few bucks if you enter FACEBOOK as a discount code."
THANKS, i was buying some stuff at Eastwood and i remembered your Facebook comment, so i thought what the hell i have nothing to lose....
and i saved $50!
i owe you a beer.
hc
THANKS, i was buying some stuff at Eastwood and i remembered your Facebook comment, so i thought what the hell i have nothing to lose....
and i saved $50!
i owe you a beer.
hc
06-16-10, 01:22 PM
#119
i've been seeing different information about when ZDDP Plus should be used... I know that it should be used in older piston engines and all rotaries, but should it be added to brand new cars? Both my wife and I have brand new daily drivers that I do oil changes with Mobile 1 Fully Synthetic oil... should I add ZDDP Plus to the oil also?
06-16-10, 05:46 PM
#120
Wanted to bring this back from the dead to give a bump to Brad Penn.
I have been running Brad Penn for over 20,000kms on the Rx-8 and it has always started excellent and ran smooth and silent.
However, during my last oil change I reverted back to Castrol GTX because I ran out of Brad Penn and had some Castrol GTX lying around the garage, what a bad move. Initially, the Castrol felt slightly worse than the Brad Penn but after 2,000km it felt like complete sludge and starts were hard and the engine ran smooth. another 1,000kms and I couldn't tolerate this anymore.
Back to Brad Penn and everything feels back to how great it was, I would say Brad Penn after 5,000km feels like Castrol after 2,000km.
I have been running Brad Penn for over 20,000kms on the Rx-8 and it has always started excellent and ran smooth and silent.
However, during my last oil change I reverted back to Castrol GTX because I ran out of Brad Penn and had some Castrol GTX lying around the garage, what a bad move. Initially, the Castrol felt slightly worse than the Brad Penn but after 2,000km it felt like complete sludge and starts were hard and the engine ran smooth. another 1,000kms and I couldn't tolerate this anymore.
Back to Brad Penn and everything feels back to how great it was, I would say Brad Penn after 5,000km feels like Castrol after 2,000km.
I never heard of brad penn oil. Def something i should look into more now.
06-18-10, 05:29 PM
#121
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Just added my dose of zddp plus. I only added half the container because I wasn't sure what my target levels were. I figured half a bottle was better than nothing.
Since my oil gets changed a couple times a year it might take a while to notice any difference in vacuum reading. Either way the added protection/peace of mind was worth the few bucks I spent.
Since my oil gets changed a couple times a year it might take a while to notice any difference in vacuum reading. Either way the added protection/peace of mind was worth the few bucks I spent.
07-05-10, 04:14 PM
#122
Im about to send out my test oil (castrol gtx 10w-30) tomorrow to blackstone.
It had almost 1000 miles on it, 972 to be exact.
In the meantime, i finally sucked up enough guts and even with all the myths and stories about running synthetic in our cars, i just said F it and decided to do it last weekend.
Bought some royal purple 10w-30. Along with their premix.
So far, i put about 200 miles on the car and i must say, i know it might be mental or coincidence but i feel the car running smoother, quieter and has more "pep" than with the reg dino oil.
MOst of you will prob say its mental but since i only drive my car on the weekends, its pretty easy to notice a substantial difference.
Mind you, last weekend and ESPECIALLY this past weekend, we reached 100 degrees.
I have tried to drive the car as early as possible this weekend so i wont die in the heat since i have no AC. But when i did drive, it was 11-12pm anyway so im sure i was driving in 90-95 degree anyway.
The car felt alot smoother, i can actually hear the outside when sitting at a light, instead of my exhaust. It just feels like a different car almost. Much more "tuned" sounding. lol sounds funny i know but it gotta be the oil yo!! lol jk
I been doing the 1/2oz premix per gallon of gas.
My question is should the car be driven after you add the premix??
I got gas, then drove home. After it was parked, i added the premix. I opened the hatch and i pushed down on the car up and down to kinda make the oil mix with the gas lol
I had the key to ACC so the fuel pump would be on.
Is that good enough? Reason why i ask this is because i wont see the car til this weekend.
Thanks
It had almost 1000 miles on it, 972 to be exact.
In the meantime, i finally sucked up enough guts and even with all the myths and stories about running synthetic in our cars, i just said F it and decided to do it last weekend.
Bought some royal purple 10w-30. Along with their premix.
So far, i put about 200 miles on the car and i must say, i know it might be mental or coincidence but i feel the car running smoother, quieter and has more "pep" than with the reg dino oil.
MOst of you will prob say its mental but since i only drive my car on the weekends, its pretty easy to notice a substantial difference.
Mind you, last weekend and ESPECIALLY this past weekend, we reached 100 degrees.
I have tried to drive the car as early as possible this weekend so i wont die in the heat since i have no AC. But when i did drive, it was 11-12pm anyway so im sure i was driving in 90-95 degree anyway.
The car felt alot smoother, i can actually hear the outside when sitting at a light, instead of my exhaust. It just feels like a different car almost. Much more "tuned" sounding. lol sounds funny i know but it gotta be the oil yo!! lol jk
I been doing the 1/2oz premix per gallon of gas.
My question is should the car be driven after you add the premix??
I got gas, then drove home. After it was parked, i added the premix. I opened the hatch and i pushed down on the car up and down to kinda make the oil mix with the gas lol
I had the key to ACC so the fuel pump would be on.
Is that good enough? Reason why i ask this is because i wont see the car til this weekend.
Thanks
10-13-11, 09:32 PM
#123
Racing Rotary Since 1983
Thread Starter
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if you haven't read post one of this thread please do.
i was just checking as to if Robert Young (real smart guy) had come up w any new turbos and noticed a tech note link on the Forced Performance site. Robert is always worth reading so i took a look.
5 pages on.... you guessed it, Reformulated Oil Sucking and what to do about it.
unfortunately it is a PDF doc or i would have copied it to this post...
http://store.forcedperformance.net/m...otor%20Oil.pdf
i will give you the short summary and do suggest you read the doc.
our engines should be considered "race" engines (i second that given the hp and displacement)
oil isn't what it used to be. to prove it Robert drained the oil from a 400 hp Diamond Star and replaced it w Mobil One.
after not alot of dyno pulls the crank thrust bearings started to go bye bye, not a normal occurrence for the motor.
the reason?
non-racing oil "has had all of the high pressure additives removed from it to avoid cat converter damage."
non-racing oil has approx 800 parts zinc and 900 parts phosphorus
racing oil generally has about twice the Zn and P
the article discloses various oil options.
i use Mobil One non racing oil because it has superior high temperature properties but i add
the missing anti-wear additives w a container of ZDDP+ to every oil change.
it would be neat if someone could copy the article to this thread..
ZDDP and AI go together to make a happy motor
howard
i was just checking as to if Robert Young (real smart guy) had come up w any new turbos and noticed a tech note link on the Forced Performance site. Robert is always worth reading so i took a look.
5 pages on.... you guessed it, Reformulated Oil Sucking and what to do about it.
unfortunately it is a PDF doc or i would have copied it to this post...
http://store.forcedperformance.net/m...otor%20Oil.pdf
i will give you the short summary and do suggest you read the doc.
our engines should be considered "race" engines (i second that given the hp and displacement)
oil isn't what it used to be. to prove it Robert drained the oil from a 400 hp Diamond Star and replaced it w Mobil One.
after not alot of dyno pulls the crank thrust bearings started to go bye bye, not a normal occurrence for the motor.
the reason?
non-racing oil "has had all of the high pressure additives removed from it to avoid cat converter damage."
non-racing oil has approx 800 parts zinc and 900 parts phosphorus
racing oil generally has about twice the Zn and P
the article discloses various oil options.
i use Mobil One non racing oil because it has superior high temperature properties but i add
the missing anti-wear additives w a container of ZDDP+ to every oil change.
it would be neat if someone could copy the article to this thread..
ZDDP and AI go together to make a happy motor
howard
10-14-11, 01:36 AM
#124
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I started to paste the article in here but it gets messy and may lose it's point because the structure is lost. If you want a free exported copy to Word, this site works:
http://www.pdftoword.com/
I was able to upload the PDF and have the website email me a Word version. FYI
http://www.pdftoword.com/
I was able to upload the PDF and have the website email me a Word version. FYI
10-19-11, 01:49 PM
#125
Racing Rotary Since 1983
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what follows is the guts of the Robert Young article... thanks Robert and i must say that the content mirrors post one of this thread. also, being a devotee/ong time user of Mobil One please note that the engine failed on street/reformulated Mobil One as it would have on any other street oil WITHOUT ZDDP added. our options (above 400+ hp) are to use racing oil which contains wear additives or street oil and add ZDDP.
"OFFICIAL RELEASE – October 8, 2010
Forced Performance Inc.
671 New Hope Road West
McKinney, Texas 75071
Phone: 972-984-1800
Fax: 972-984-1802
Forced Performance Recommendations for Motor Oil
With the subtle advancements that have occurred with the 4G63 engine and power systems over the last decade, it is easy to overlook the fact that our engines – even the “low” power ones, are essentially race engines. With that in mind it is easy to see that the turbochargers on these engines are often operated in a manner that could be considered “abusive” or “destructive”, and that is OK with us.
We often observe our customers operating our turbochargers beyond their rated power outputs and max shaft speeds. We like this, and this is why our customers are the baddest MFr’s in the world, they know how to try hard and they know how to win year after year after year.
The most important thing to remember when you are hanging your *** out there over the edge (besides being SAFE) is that the only thing that keeps your power system from transforming itself into a cool looking pile of busted up trash is your motor oil. If you want the best protection against lubrication failure for your race engine then you need to use the proper motor oil. Race engines that operate with oil temps above 200F should run 20w-50 weight racing oil. GF-4 classification oil is NOT racing oil, GF-4 is emissions priority oil that basically has all of the high pressure additives removed from it to avoid damaging catalytic converters and reduce tailpipe emissions. I know that your filler cap on your motor says use Mobil 1 5w-30 – you may remove the sticker at
this time and stop believing that what was good for your 270bhp motor is still good for your 650bhp motor, it is not.
Some might have a hard time considering that their daily driver 4G63 motor is a “race engine”, but anything that makes 100bhp per piston is a race motor, and if you think otherwise then you are fooling yourself. Our own 2006 EVO9 RS is a 630whp daily driver. Most of its life it runs on 93 octane fuel at a reduced power level of approx 560whp – 140whp per piston – WELL into the “race engine” category. If you have any doubts about that just stop by and ask for a ride. Other than during the initial ring seat/break-in period, this engine has AWAYS run Brad Penn 20w-50 racing oil. There are also plenty of other suitable oils available from Amsoil, Joe Gibbs, Valvoline and Royal purple for example that fall into the same basic performance level for high pressure - friction protection. Running oil that does not offer this type of high pressure oil film strength in your engine is just a mistake, plain and simple. Mobil 1 used to be considered such oil, but it has been many years since it was reformulated and “watered down” to accommodate OEM emissions and fuel efficiency requirements. Your engine does not have any fuel efficiency requirement; you do not have a catalytic convert on your race engine either, so why run oil whose main focus doesn’t pertain to your needs?
Our EVO9 RS (Only4 around the shop) has NEVER experienced a thrust bearing failure, and we had not been able to reproduce a thrust bearing failure despite some very serious efforts to do so in house and on the track. If fact the same thrust bearing was REUSED in multiple test turbos over a 2 year period without steel on
steel contact. Hundreds of R&D dyno pulls, and hours of full power track testing and we could not repeat a
thrust bearing failure mode until now.
I will tell you how we did it.
We drained the Brad Penn 20w-50 oil from the motor. We filled up with Napa brand natural 10w30 motor oil and drove around the block to warm the oil up, then we changed it again with more Napa brand 10w-
30 motor oil and drove that around the block again and then changed the filter and filled up with Mobil 1 10w-
30 motor oil and put a BRAND NEW FP BLACK™ turbo on the car. We drove the car for 3 days of street commuting before we could get a dyno appointment at Cobb tuning in Plano Texas, on the fourth day we went to the dyno to flog it out.
The dyno session consisted of 15 570whp-580whp 4th gear pulls and 3 15 second load holds at 5500rpm and 33psi boost pressure. The car appeared to be more or less fine afterwards despite blowing the dipstick out during the 3rd of the 15 second full power holds. We drove the car back to the shop and pulled the turbo to inspect the bearings. This is a procedure we have been through countless times before.
There were two things different in this test. The first thing was that we changed to Mobil 1 10w-30 and the second thing was the result, thrust bearing damage. The thrust bearing was starting to burn around the edges. The edges of the steel thrust collar and the tips of the steel thrust ramps had both turned blue from heat and started to smear the metal. Datalogs of the oil temp and pressure showed that both temp and pressure were virtually the same as with the Brad Penn oil, but the result is far from acceptable when using the Mobil 1 10W-30 engine oil.
So for the cliffs notes crowd out there, here is the summary: Do not use Mobil1 10w30 or any other “on highway” GF-4 oil in your 4G63 motor with any FP high output stock appearing turbo. Use a suitable racing oil designed for high film strength and heavy pressure loading such as Brad Penn, Joe Gibbs, Valvoline VR1, Amsoil Racing oil or Royal Purple racing oil. Also remember that racing oils are detergent free and need to be changed frequently.
A table indicating oil weights and ZDDP content is supplied below, suitable oils are highlighted in YELLOW.
BOOST ON!
Robert Young"
the table is not included but the summary is: street oil at about half of racing oil ZDDP content.
howard
"OFFICIAL RELEASE – October 8, 2010
Forced Performance Inc.
671 New Hope Road West
McKinney, Texas 75071
Phone: 972-984-1800
Fax: 972-984-1802
Forced Performance Recommendations for Motor Oil
With the subtle advancements that have occurred with the 4G63 engine and power systems over the last decade, it is easy to overlook the fact that our engines – even the “low” power ones, are essentially race engines. With that in mind it is easy to see that the turbochargers on these engines are often operated in a manner that could be considered “abusive” or “destructive”, and that is OK with us.
We often observe our customers operating our turbochargers beyond their rated power outputs and max shaft speeds. We like this, and this is why our customers are the baddest MFr’s in the world, they know how to try hard and they know how to win year after year after year.
The most important thing to remember when you are hanging your *** out there over the edge (besides being SAFE) is that the only thing that keeps your power system from transforming itself into a cool looking pile of busted up trash is your motor oil. If you want the best protection against lubrication failure for your race engine then you need to use the proper motor oil. Race engines that operate with oil temps above 200F should run 20w-50 weight racing oil. GF-4 classification oil is NOT racing oil, GF-4 is emissions priority oil that basically has all of the high pressure additives removed from it to avoid damaging catalytic converters and reduce tailpipe emissions. I know that your filler cap on your motor says use Mobil 1 5w-30 – you may remove the sticker at
this time and stop believing that what was good for your 270bhp motor is still good for your 650bhp motor, it is not.
Some might have a hard time considering that their daily driver 4G63 motor is a “race engine”, but anything that makes 100bhp per piston is a race motor, and if you think otherwise then you are fooling yourself. Our own 2006 EVO9 RS is a 630whp daily driver. Most of its life it runs on 93 octane fuel at a reduced power level of approx 560whp – 140whp per piston – WELL into the “race engine” category. If you have any doubts about that just stop by and ask for a ride. Other than during the initial ring seat/break-in period, this engine has AWAYS run Brad Penn 20w-50 racing oil. There are also plenty of other suitable oils available from Amsoil, Joe Gibbs, Valvoline and Royal purple for example that fall into the same basic performance level for high pressure - friction protection. Running oil that does not offer this type of high pressure oil film strength in your engine is just a mistake, plain and simple. Mobil 1 used to be considered such oil, but it has been many years since it was reformulated and “watered down” to accommodate OEM emissions and fuel efficiency requirements. Your engine does not have any fuel efficiency requirement; you do not have a catalytic convert on your race engine either, so why run oil whose main focus doesn’t pertain to your needs?
Our EVO9 RS (Only4 around the shop) has NEVER experienced a thrust bearing failure, and we had not been able to reproduce a thrust bearing failure despite some very serious efforts to do so in house and on the track. If fact the same thrust bearing was REUSED in multiple test turbos over a 2 year period without steel on
steel contact. Hundreds of R&D dyno pulls, and hours of full power track testing and we could not repeat a
thrust bearing failure mode until now.
I will tell you how we did it.
We drained the Brad Penn 20w-50 oil from the motor. We filled up with Napa brand natural 10w30 motor oil and drove around the block to warm the oil up, then we changed it again with more Napa brand 10w-
30 motor oil and drove that around the block again and then changed the filter and filled up with Mobil 1 10w-
30 motor oil and put a BRAND NEW FP BLACK™ turbo on the car. We drove the car for 3 days of street commuting before we could get a dyno appointment at Cobb tuning in Plano Texas, on the fourth day we went to the dyno to flog it out.
The dyno session consisted of 15 570whp-580whp 4th gear pulls and 3 15 second load holds at 5500rpm and 33psi boost pressure. The car appeared to be more or less fine afterwards despite blowing the dipstick out during the 3rd of the 15 second full power holds. We drove the car back to the shop and pulled the turbo to inspect the bearings. This is a procedure we have been through countless times before.
There were two things different in this test. The first thing was that we changed to Mobil 1 10w-30 and the second thing was the result, thrust bearing damage. The thrust bearing was starting to burn around the edges. The edges of the steel thrust collar and the tips of the steel thrust ramps had both turned blue from heat and started to smear the metal. Datalogs of the oil temp and pressure showed that both temp and pressure were virtually the same as with the Brad Penn oil, but the result is far from acceptable when using the Mobil 1 10W-30 engine oil.
So for the cliffs notes crowd out there, here is the summary: Do not use Mobil1 10w30 or any other “on highway” GF-4 oil in your 4G63 motor with any FP high output stock appearing turbo. Use a suitable racing oil designed for high film strength and heavy pressure loading such as Brad Penn, Joe Gibbs, Valvoline VR1, Amsoil Racing oil or Royal Purple racing oil. Also remember that racing oils are detergent free and need to be changed frequently.
A table indicating oil weights and ZDDP content is supplied below, suitable oils are highlighted in YELLOW.
BOOST ON!
Robert Young"
the table is not included but the summary is: street oil at about half of racing oil ZDDP content.
howard