you need to know about REFORMULATED OIL!!!! REVISITED AGAIN JULY 08
07-16-08, 01:06 PM
#77
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07-16-08, 08:08 PM
#79
shear
I'm betting that the lower levels of ZDDP's combined with the high-heat and fuel-dilution that's inherent in our rotary engines has now reached a point where most oils just don't have enough anti-wear additives for resistance to shearing effects.
That is, sure the oils are good, but once they are "squeezed out" the only thing protecting the mating surfaces is the film of ZDDP's.
The article also state that just adding a ZDDP additive might be detrimental to the "balance" of the oil (e.g., detergents, etc.).
Enjoy,
:-) neil
=========
Taken from (check links for pictures):
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/oilshear.htm
How does an oil 'lose' some of its viscosity in a engine?
Shear stability is a measure of the amount of viscosity an oil may lose during operation. Oil experiences very high stresses in certain areas of the engine such as in the oil pump, cam shaft area , piston rings, and any other areas where two mating surface areas squeeze the oil film out momentarily . Most multigrade engine oils contain special types of additives, called Viscosity Index Improvers, which are composed of very large, viscosity-controlling molecules. As the oil passes through the engine, these molecules are permanently sheared or torn apart over time, causing the additive to lose its viscosity-contributing advantages which reduces the oils ability to maintain its higher number. ie.. 10w30 ,
Synth Oils do not rely as much on special Viscosity Index Improver additives and will experience little permanent viscosity loss.
The shear stability of an oil is measured by using both ASTM test methods D445 and D5275. First, the viscosity of an engine oil is measured. Then, the oil is exposed to severe shearing conditions by repeatedly pumping it through a specially-sized diesel fuel injection nozzle at high pressure. After shearing the oil, its viscosity is measured again. The percentage of viscosity lost is determined by comparing the second viscosity measurement with the original viscosity measurement.
Although there are no specifications indicating required levels of shear stability for engine oils, lower percentages mean that an oil is more shear stable and will retain its viscosity better during operation.
Over head cam squeezes against the lifters causing oil to shear the oils film.
Below Oil is being sheared or squeezed out momentarily around the rings, also when the piston pushes down against the crank, it squeezes out the film around the top rod bearing allowing the bearings to scuff or wear.
So does What does this shearing do to your oil and engine in the long term?
When the oil film is sheared or squeezed out, then your protection is now reliant on barrier lubricant additives. Oil has 3 states of lubrication , Hydrodynamic, mixed film, and boundary(barrier). The best is Hydrodynamic which is nothing more than a flow of oil separating two mating surfaces. After a period of time shearing, the oil will lose it's ability to hold up to the same flow as before since the VI Improvers are breaking down causing the oil to thin down in grade. Once this happens, there is less film strength between the mating surfaces so it doesn't take as much for the oil to shear, therefore creating more heat which attacks the base oil even more and then starts to cause the oil to thicken up due to the excessive levels of heat and the broken down VI Improvers become a contaminant which added to the existing oil will continue to thicken and ultimately cause sludge if not changed in a reasonable time..
A lot of people believe that a full synth oil can protect better than a mineral based oil. Lets look at that scenario.
If you have a 10w30 mineral oil, that means your base oil has measured to flow between 9.30-12.49 Cst's @ 100deg C.
If you take a synth 10w30 base oil, that means your base oil(synth) has also measured to flow between the same 9.30-12.49 Cst's @ 100 deg C.
Follow me so far?, so we now know both oils have the same basic oil flow properties as each other which means that they are pretty much equal in flow.
So now you have either one in your engine and you step on the gas, and you take off. Oil is in the piston rod bearing right? (at least it better be!) But when the piston pushes down on the crank as illustrated above, it shears or squeezes the oil out momentarily. So, if both oils flow at the same speed, Then which one is staying in there longer and protects better? Basic fundamentals is, that when pressure is applied something has to give, right? So the oil is going to squeeze out, at what speed? approx. the same speed since both have measured the same and are rated the same.
Hmmm?, ok, don't believe that happens? look at this 30,000 mile piston rod bearings. Kinda tells a story.
Below is the bottom bearing on the same 30,000 mile piston
Kinda neat!, What this shows is that when the piston is forced down from the explosion created by your spark plug a lot of pressure is being applied through the upper rod bearing against the crank to make the engine go. Now when the piston is on the up stroke, the other pistons are pushing the crank around so there is no real pressure on the bottom causing the oil to shear or squeeze out on the bottom bearing so there is very little wear against the bottom.
So What does protect your engine when the hydrodynamic film is sheared?
After the base oil has sheared or squeezed out, The last line of defense is an additive that puts down a barrier film. This additive usually has higher levels of strength against shearing so it helps keep the wear down. Alright, here's the catch. In 96, the lubrication industry changed from the SH to SJ API rated oil by reducing the barrier lubricant additives to help preserve cat converters on cars. Why?, It appears that the manufactures / lubrication experts are concerned with contaminating the cat converters with the standard antiwear additives in the motor oils so they have reduced the levels of antiwear additives to preserve the cats. Hmmm, guess what, When they introduced the new SL GF-3 oils, They left it the same. Ok, not out of the woods yet... Now the new GF-4 oils are in the works in hopes to be introduced next year around April. Have a guess one of the things they are going to do?, YEP, reduce the current antiwear additives again.
The interesting thing to note is that more and more oil companies are coming out with higher mileage motor oils with higher levels of the antiwear additives. Catch is, they are not API certified there fore can void engine warr's.
Remember all those additive companies selling their miracle oil ? For some of them, they were doing nothing more than adding a barrier additive to your existing oil. Problem there, too much of a good thing can cause it to overload the blend that the oil company started with, so a lot of times the detergents in the oil are not able to do their job and fight acids produced by the engine, there fore the oil will oxidize faster and start the process of breakdown and extended oil drains are out of the question. not to mention engine warr issues again. Guess what a good race oil has... higher levels of antiwear and less detergents. Since they don't run race oils over the road, their not worried about oil drains. They change it constantly.
To simulate the shearing effect with different types of oils, I use an old snake oil additive salesman machine called a Timken machine. This machine was and is used only by oil additive companies only. I have not seen any oil company (except one) that will demonstrate how well their oil will hold up on this machine.
This machine can give you an idea of how an oil will react under a shearing condition. Barrier lube properties of an oil is not the only part that is important, but should not be ignored either! Of course I have people stress that this is not a valid test. Well, I'd have to agree. We are talking about a basic test you can put your hands on and feel for your self. This machine is a great way for you to play around with oils and greases to see how barrier properties affect wear and what it takes to break the hydrodynamic film strength of any oil.
The basic principle behind this is the rotating bearing race is like the crank in an engine.
So to simulate how it looks, you put your test oil in the little pan (like oil pan on car), turn on, then apply pressure to the lever until you squeeze out the fluid and stop the machine from rotating.
Here is what you will see after you pull the bearing's off and see how some oils will actually shear right down to the bearing very easily whereas others with higher levels of barrier lubrication provides less wear and in some cases cannot be stopped with the lever.
Conclusion:
Base stock oils (especially the newer GF-3 SL) have better resistance to heat like a synth does.
The higher the spread between the bottom number and the top number the more VI improvers are relied on for maintaining the viscosity. Better to keep the numbers closer.
All base oils film strength will shear under stress or pressure. The real way to help prevent wear is to maintain higher levels of antiwear additives This in conjunction with a good base stock which resists breakdown to high heat
That is, sure the oils are good, but once they are "squeezed out" the only thing protecting the mating surfaces is the film of ZDDP's.
The article also state that just adding a ZDDP additive might be detrimental to the "balance" of the oil (e.g., detergents, etc.).
Enjoy,
:-) neil
=========
Taken from (check links for pictures):
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/oilshear.htm
How does an oil 'lose' some of its viscosity in a engine?
Shear stability is a measure of the amount of viscosity an oil may lose during operation. Oil experiences very high stresses in certain areas of the engine such as in the oil pump, cam shaft area , piston rings, and any other areas where two mating surface areas squeeze the oil film out momentarily . Most multigrade engine oils contain special types of additives, called Viscosity Index Improvers, which are composed of very large, viscosity-controlling molecules. As the oil passes through the engine, these molecules are permanently sheared or torn apart over time, causing the additive to lose its viscosity-contributing advantages which reduces the oils ability to maintain its higher number. ie.. 10w30 ,
Synth Oils do not rely as much on special Viscosity Index Improver additives and will experience little permanent viscosity loss.
The shear stability of an oil is measured by using both ASTM test methods D445 and D5275. First, the viscosity of an engine oil is measured. Then, the oil is exposed to severe shearing conditions by repeatedly pumping it through a specially-sized diesel fuel injection nozzle at high pressure. After shearing the oil, its viscosity is measured again. The percentage of viscosity lost is determined by comparing the second viscosity measurement with the original viscosity measurement.
Although there are no specifications indicating required levels of shear stability for engine oils, lower percentages mean that an oil is more shear stable and will retain its viscosity better during operation.
Over head cam squeezes against the lifters causing oil to shear the oils film.
Below Oil is being sheared or squeezed out momentarily around the rings, also when the piston pushes down against the crank, it squeezes out the film around the top rod bearing allowing the bearings to scuff or wear.
So does What does this shearing do to your oil and engine in the long term?
When the oil film is sheared or squeezed out, then your protection is now reliant on barrier lubricant additives. Oil has 3 states of lubrication , Hydrodynamic, mixed film, and boundary(barrier). The best is Hydrodynamic which is nothing more than a flow of oil separating two mating surfaces. After a period of time shearing, the oil will lose it's ability to hold up to the same flow as before since the VI Improvers are breaking down causing the oil to thin down in grade. Once this happens, there is less film strength between the mating surfaces so it doesn't take as much for the oil to shear, therefore creating more heat which attacks the base oil even more and then starts to cause the oil to thicken up due to the excessive levels of heat and the broken down VI Improvers become a contaminant which added to the existing oil will continue to thicken and ultimately cause sludge if not changed in a reasonable time..
A lot of people believe that a full synth oil can protect better than a mineral based oil. Lets look at that scenario.
If you have a 10w30 mineral oil, that means your base oil has measured to flow between 9.30-12.49 Cst's @ 100deg C.
If you take a synth 10w30 base oil, that means your base oil(synth) has also measured to flow between the same 9.30-12.49 Cst's @ 100 deg C.
Follow me so far?, so we now know both oils have the same basic oil flow properties as each other which means that they are pretty much equal in flow.
So now you have either one in your engine and you step on the gas, and you take off. Oil is in the piston rod bearing right? (at least it better be!) But when the piston pushes down on the crank as illustrated above, it shears or squeezes the oil out momentarily. So, if both oils flow at the same speed, Then which one is staying in there longer and protects better? Basic fundamentals is, that when pressure is applied something has to give, right? So the oil is going to squeeze out, at what speed? approx. the same speed since both have measured the same and are rated the same.
Hmmm?, ok, don't believe that happens? look at this 30,000 mile piston rod bearings. Kinda tells a story.
Below is the bottom bearing on the same 30,000 mile piston
Kinda neat!, What this shows is that when the piston is forced down from the explosion created by your spark plug a lot of pressure is being applied through the upper rod bearing against the crank to make the engine go. Now when the piston is on the up stroke, the other pistons are pushing the crank around so there is no real pressure on the bottom causing the oil to shear or squeeze out on the bottom bearing so there is very little wear against the bottom.
So What does protect your engine when the hydrodynamic film is sheared?
After the base oil has sheared or squeezed out, The last line of defense is an additive that puts down a barrier film. This additive usually has higher levels of strength against shearing so it helps keep the wear down. Alright, here's the catch. In 96, the lubrication industry changed from the SH to SJ API rated oil by reducing the barrier lubricant additives to help preserve cat converters on cars. Why?, It appears that the manufactures / lubrication experts are concerned with contaminating the cat converters with the standard antiwear additives in the motor oils so they have reduced the levels of antiwear additives to preserve the cats. Hmmm, guess what, When they introduced the new SL GF-3 oils, They left it the same. Ok, not out of the woods yet... Now the new GF-4 oils are in the works in hopes to be introduced next year around April. Have a guess one of the things they are going to do?, YEP, reduce the current antiwear additives again.
The interesting thing to note is that more and more oil companies are coming out with higher mileage motor oils with higher levels of the antiwear additives. Catch is, they are not API certified there fore can void engine warr's.
Remember all those additive companies selling their miracle oil ? For some of them, they were doing nothing more than adding a barrier additive to your existing oil. Problem there, too much of a good thing can cause it to overload the blend that the oil company started with, so a lot of times the detergents in the oil are not able to do their job and fight acids produced by the engine, there fore the oil will oxidize faster and start the process of breakdown and extended oil drains are out of the question. not to mention engine warr issues again. Guess what a good race oil has... higher levels of antiwear and less detergents. Since they don't run race oils over the road, their not worried about oil drains. They change it constantly.
To simulate the shearing effect with different types of oils, I use an old snake oil additive salesman machine called a Timken machine. This machine was and is used only by oil additive companies only. I have not seen any oil company (except one) that will demonstrate how well their oil will hold up on this machine.
This machine can give you an idea of how an oil will react under a shearing condition. Barrier lube properties of an oil is not the only part that is important, but should not be ignored either! Of course I have people stress that this is not a valid test. Well, I'd have to agree. We are talking about a basic test you can put your hands on and feel for your self. This machine is a great way for you to play around with oils and greases to see how barrier properties affect wear and what it takes to break the hydrodynamic film strength of any oil.
The basic principle behind this is the rotating bearing race is like the crank in an engine.
So to simulate how it looks, you put your test oil in the little pan (like oil pan on car), turn on, then apply pressure to the lever until you squeeze out the fluid and stop the machine from rotating.
Here is what you will see after you pull the bearing's off and see how some oils will actually shear right down to the bearing very easily whereas others with higher levels of barrier lubrication provides less wear and in some cases cannot be stopped with the lever.
Conclusion:
Base stock oils (especially the newer GF-3 SL) have better resistance to heat like a synth does.
The higher the spread between the bottom number and the top number the more VI improvers are relied on for maintaining the viscosity. Better to keep the numbers closer.
All base oils film strength will shear under stress or pressure. The real way to help prevent wear is to maintain higher levels of antiwear additives This in conjunction with a good base stock which resists breakdown to high heat
Last edited by M104-AMG; 07-16-08 at 08:13 PM.
07-16-08, 08:23 PM
#80
Original Gangster/Rotary!
iTrader: (213)
Chris and Ari over at www.rx7.com recommend Idemitsu, so it's good enough for me. I've been running it exclusively for the past three-ish years, no complaints here. Of course I dont drive my FD that often, so the higher price doesnt really bother me.
Chris and Ari (along with steve kan) have always maintained that 20w50 is the weight of choice for modded FDs in warmer climates (ie year round in texas, majority of the year in NJ) to protect the bearings. I do run 10w30 when the temps start to drop around here, I can watch my oil pressure skyrocket with the 20w50.
http://www.rx7.com/store/rx7/fdengine_maintenance.html
Chris and Ari (along with steve kan) have always maintained that 20w50 is the weight of choice for modded FDs in warmer climates (ie year round in texas, majority of the year in NJ) to protect the bearings. I do run 10w30 when the temps start to drop around here, I can watch my oil pressure skyrocket with the 20w50.
http://www.rx7.com/store/rx7/fdengine_maintenance.html
07-17-08, 10:23 AM
#83
Rotary Enthusiast
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Eos
Still wondering about a question I asked earlier. What about using GM's EOS instead of the Camshaft and lifter prelube? It is now available again and from what I have been able to find out, should increase the Zn and P concentrations by about 100 ppm each.
Anyone?
Anyone?
07-25-08, 10:16 AM
#84
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This is a very informative and important thread. Thanks.
So, I have a question: is a dyno oil that has zddp better than a synthetic without it? For example, Valvoline VR1 Racing oil claims to add it. Would this in 20w-50 be better than running Mobil 1 synthetic 5w-30 when not adding the additive?
Thanks. Also, I would like to repeat the question about the EOS.
So, I have a question: is a dyno oil that has zddp better than a synthetic without it? For example, Valvoline VR1 Racing oil claims to add it. Would this in 20w-50 be better than running Mobil 1 synthetic 5w-30 when not adding the additive?
Thanks. Also, I would like to repeat the question about the EOS.
07-25-08, 11:39 AM
#85
100ppm is not much difference from what I can tell.
Check out this chart from Mobil1:
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...duct_Guide.pdf
If the various oils range from 800ppm to 1600ppm, I don't feel that 100ppm is doing much per dollar compared to choosing an appropriate oil in the first place.
I've talked to a couple of oil manufacturers and so far Mobil1 is the only one that has published anything about ZDDP content. Note that they are publishing phosphorous content, and I'm not sure how much of that phosphorous is coming i the form of ZDDP specifically.
I believe there's one reason you won't get many *good* answers about oil - because the oil makers don't publish hard data about the oil, there are very few folks out there who've built enough side-by-side comparisons who can fairly speak about one oil vs. another. All of them work if the viscosity is about right and you change it often enough. So there is lots of room for snake-oil marketing and die-hard consumers who can claim about anything they want.
Dave
Check out this chart from Mobil1:
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...duct_Guide.pdf
If the various oils range from 800ppm to 1600ppm, I don't feel that 100ppm is doing much per dollar compared to choosing an appropriate oil in the first place.
I've talked to a couple of oil manufacturers and so far Mobil1 is the only one that has published anything about ZDDP content. Note that they are publishing phosphorous content, and I'm not sure how much of that phosphorous is coming i the form of ZDDP specifically.
I believe there's one reason you won't get many *good* answers about oil - because the oil makers don't publish hard data about the oil, there are very few folks out there who've built enough side-by-side comparisons who can fairly speak about one oil vs. another. All of them work if the viscosity is about right and you change it often enough. So there is lots of room for snake-oil marketing and die-hard consumers who can claim about anything they want.
Dave
07-25-08, 01:26 PM
#86
Idemitsu 10w30 'Racing' blend
No one has posted a VOA or UOA of the Idemitsu Rotary Motor oils.
Below is their 10w30 Racing Blend.
:-) neil
=====
Taken from:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...rue#Post478600
Here is a virgin sample of Idemitsu 10w30 'Racing' blend. It supposed to be a PAO/Ester base which 'exceeds API SM standards.'
BTW, this is a four-stroke formula and not their rotary formula.
http://www.idemitsu-usa.com
http://www.idemitsu.co.jp
Lab: Blackstone
Iron: 1
Copper: 1
Moly: 562
Potassium: 1
Boron: 63
Silicon: 9 (anti-foam additive)
Sodium: 2
calcium: 1696
magnesium: 5
Phosphorus: 576
zinc: 684
sus viscosity @ 210F: 61.2
flashpoint: 485F
TBN: 6.6
Below is their 10w30 Racing Blend.
:-) neil
=====
Taken from:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...rue#Post478600
Here is a virgin sample of Idemitsu 10w30 'Racing' blend. It supposed to be a PAO/Ester base which 'exceeds API SM standards.'
BTW, this is a four-stroke formula and not their rotary formula.
http://www.idemitsu-usa.com
http://www.idemitsu.co.jp
Lab: Blackstone
Iron: 1
Copper: 1
Moly: 562
Potassium: 1
Boron: 63
Silicon: 9 (anti-foam additive)
Sodium: 2
calcium: 1696
magnesium: 5
Phosphorus: 576
zinc: 684
sus viscosity @ 210F: 61.2
flashpoint: 485F
TBN: 6.6
07-26-08, 08:26 PM
#87
apeiron
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Okay guys... so here is my story and reason for considering an engine cleaning procedure. In a nut shell, I bought the car about a month ago, the car had a reman installed with what is now approx: 16k miles. The secondary turbo was not working due to a vacuum leak which the seller I believed had mistaken for what he had told me was a slipping clutch. Due to the nature of how the secondary turbo would spool up intermittently I could see how somone would easily mistake it for a clutch that is beginning to slip. On top of that, the car had a clogged ndownpipe that was causing considerable water temp issues. It was at this point, and after inspecting the sparkplugs, that I decided the engine could use a good internal combustion cleaning.
On to my little experiment, so far I am finished with phase one...
I did two compression tests today, both were done on a warm engine approx 10 to 15 minutes after shut down...
These were my base line compression tests: (Oil has approx 2,500 miles of use)
-Test 1: Rear rotor 101 psi, Front rotor 106 psi (Vacuum 17 inches)
-Test 2: Rear rotor 100 psi, Front rotor 108 psi (Vacuum 17 inches)
Following the base line readings, I did a steam clean of the engine. I decided to go with the steam cleaning method versus sea foam primarily due to the fact that I have not read enough testimonials / experiences with this product and its effects on the engine long term.
My steam cleaning method was as follows: I used half a gallon of distilled water that was hooked up to the nipple on the UIM that runs to the pressure release valve (the black OEM bov). With my friend holding the jug of water and me in the drivers seat, he dropped the vacuum line and instantly the RPMS on the car will drop and the car will nearly stall (I kept the RPMS @ around 4k, periodically redlining the motor.) I did this until there was no more water left in the jug and kept revving the engine for roughly 10 more minutes.
I let the car idle and it seemed stable so I shut the car down, let it cool for 15 minutes and did my second compression test.
These were the compression numbers and vaccume following the Steam cleaning method.
-Test 1: Rear rotor 111 psi, Front rotor 120 psi (Vacuum 19 inches)
-Test 2: Rear rotor 110 psi, Front rotor 120 psi (Vacuum 19 inches) - This was done an hour after the initial compression test
So... following the steam cleaning method, the compression on both rotors increased by a minimum of 10 psi and the vacuum increased by 2 inches.
Following this process, I changed my oil with the usual royal purple 20w40 but I added a little twist (ZDDplus) addative...
I will be doing another compression test in 500 miles...
On to my little experiment, so far I am finished with phase one...
I did two compression tests today, both were done on a warm engine approx 10 to 15 minutes after shut down...
These were my base line compression tests: (Oil has approx 2,500 miles of use)
-Test 1: Rear rotor 101 psi, Front rotor 106 psi (Vacuum 17 inches)
-Test 2: Rear rotor 100 psi, Front rotor 108 psi (Vacuum 17 inches)
Following the base line readings, I did a steam clean of the engine. I decided to go with the steam cleaning method versus sea foam primarily due to the fact that I have not read enough testimonials / experiences with this product and its effects on the engine long term.
My steam cleaning method was as follows: I used half a gallon of distilled water that was hooked up to the nipple on the UIM that runs to the pressure release valve (the black OEM bov). With my friend holding the jug of water and me in the drivers seat, he dropped the vacuum line and instantly the RPMS on the car will drop and the car will nearly stall (I kept the RPMS @ around 4k, periodically redlining the motor.) I did this until there was no more water left in the jug and kept revving the engine for roughly 10 more minutes.
I let the car idle and it seemed stable so I shut the car down, let it cool for 15 minutes and did my second compression test.
These were the compression numbers and vaccume following the Steam cleaning method.
-Test 1: Rear rotor 111 psi, Front rotor 120 psi (Vacuum 19 inches)
-Test 2: Rear rotor 110 psi, Front rotor 120 psi (Vacuum 19 inches) - This was done an hour after the initial compression test
So... following the steam cleaning method, the compression on both rotors increased by a minimum of 10 psi and the vacuum increased by 2 inches.
Following this process, I changed my oil with the usual royal purple 20w40 but I added a little twist (ZDDplus) addative...
I will be doing another compression test in 500 miles...
07-27-08, 12:45 PM
#88
www.silverbulletrx7.com
As I write this I see a banner ad for Royal Purple above the reply box. I decided to write to RP, whom I consider to be the best. They are recommended by Racing Beat and have addressed use of their oil in Rotary engines more so than most other oils. Anyway they responded in part with:
"Royal Purple has chosen to stay with the more robust API SL formulation in our RP 5W20, RP 5W30 and RP 10W30 oils. The API SL formulation allows a 37.5% higher concentration of antiwear than the SM formulation."..."My choice (and what I used in my 94 R2) would be either the XPR 5W30 or the RP XPR 10W40 which have an even more robust formulation having 225% more antiwear than the allowed API SM formulations."
Well just thought I would share as most of the posts are nothing more than speculation.
"Royal Purple has chosen to stay with the more robust API SL formulation in our RP 5W20, RP 5W30 and RP 10W30 oils. The API SL formulation allows a 37.5% higher concentration of antiwear than the SM formulation."..."My choice (and what I used in my 94 R2) would be either the XPR 5W30 or the RP XPR 10W40 which have an even more robust formulation having 225% more antiwear than the allowed API SM formulations."
Well just thought I would share as most of the posts are nothing more than speculation.
07-28-08, 11:33 AM
#89
These products from STP both contain ZDDP:
http://www.stp.com/oil_4cyl.html
http://www.stp.com/oil_oiltreat.html
I believe the 4 cyl version has a higher concentration - I don't have the labels available at the moment to check.
As some ZDDP appears to be much better than little or no ZDDP, I just used the STP during my last oil change, preferring some protection over spending too much time trying to determine which may be the 'perfect' product.
http://www.stp.com/oil_4cyl.html
http://www.stp.com/oil_oiltreat.html
I believe the 4 cyl version has a higher concentration - I don't have the labels available at the moment to check.
As some ZDDP appears to be much better than little or no ZDDP, I just used the STP during my last oil change, preferring some protection over spending too much time trying to determine which may be the 'perfect' product.
07-29-08, 08:33 PM
#91
Something new that will be of interest here.
May or may not pan out, but seems to show some promise.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0723143548.htm
May or may not pan out, but seems to show some promise.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0723143548.htm
07-30-08, 05:56 AM
#92
Racing Rotary Since 1983
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
GMPartsDirect.com indicates a new part number (88862586) for the 4 oz camshaft lifet prelube. the old number still works (12345501).
i dynoed yesterday and saw 253 F on my oil. my sensor is in the boss on the oilpan that normally houses the oil level sensor so i generate higher numbers than taking temp off the oil filter boss which is just after the cooler (s) before the engine.
no problems, but my high speed fans weren't working and we were using the eddby brake which really heats up the motor. mobil 1. 5-30.
hc
i dynoed yesterday and saw 253 F on my oil. my sensor is in the boss on the oilpan that normally houses the oil level sensor so i generate higher numbers than taking temp off the oil filter boss which is just after the cooler (s) before the engine.
no problems, but my high speed fans weren't working and we were using the eddby brake which really heats up the motor. mobil 1. 5-30.
hc
Last edited by Howard Coleman; 08-01-08 at 06:37 AM.
08-03-08, 11:01 PM
#94
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08-12-08, 10:26 PM
#96
Racing Rotary Since 1983
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GM no longer offers any ZDDP.
my next move will be to buy ZDDPPlus. 4 oz about 10$ per.
here's a pretty good 3 page thread on the situation from turbobuick. stick with it and you may learn a thing or two...
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/eng...-question.html
BTW, the (big) bottles of EOS that GM sold have half the ZDDP of one 4 oz bottle of ZDDPPlus or the old GM 4 oz bottle.
hc
my next move will be to buy ZDDPPlus. 4 oz about 10$ per.
here's a pretty good 3 page thread on the situation from turbobuick. stick with it and you may learn a thing or two...
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/eng...-question.html
BTW, the (big) bottles of EOS that GM sold have half the ZDDP of one 4 oz bottle of ZDDPPlus or the old GM 4 oz bottle.
hc
09-02-08, 08:32 PM
#100
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Staveley Lab report on Royal Purple 5W30 XPR Racing Oil (full synthetic).
In parts per million (ppm):
Calcium = 3039
Phosphorus = 1338
Zinc = 1421
Moly = 204
TBN = 10.9
Racing Beat runs Royal Purple in all their motors and they swear its the best oil they ever tested.
In parts per million (ppm):
Calcium = 3039
Phosphorus = 1338
Zinc = 1421
Moly = 204
TBN = 10.9
Racing Beat runs Royal Purple in all their motors and they swear its the best oil they ever tested.
Last edited by kwerks; 09-02-08 at 08:35 PM.