Would someone...?
11-11-02, 06:00 PM
#1
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Would someone...?
I have been killing myself over not being able to get above 6-7lbs boost. Today i am looking and see the wastegate actuator rod not connected, so i connect it and Voila!! still no more boost but damn it feels like its pulling harder? any suggestions? Thanks
Darron
p.s. i have checked all hoses, couplings, converted to non-seq (thought it was the ccv) Thouht i was missing pills so went manual boost controller? The guy wouldn't have disconnected the wastegate actuator when selling the car cause the turbos are bad?? I mean i am a little new to FD's but i would assume they would make no boost instead of a dead set 6.5 lbs every single run?
Darron
p.s. i have checked all hoses, couplings, converted to non-seq (thought it was the ccv) Thouht i was missing pills so went manual boost controller? The guy wouldn't have disconnected the wastegate actuator when selling the car cause the turbos are bad?? I mean i am a little new to FD's but i would assume they would make no boost instead of a dead set 6.5 lbs every single run?
Last edited by Casper23; 11-11-02 at 06:06 PM.
11-11-02, 06:32 PM
#4
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OK, now if you could just help me out by telling me what those stand for, i looked on the vacuum chart couldn't find? Oh and thanks alot for the data!
11-11-02, 06:52 PM
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anyone else, i have been posting this damn problem for a week, i have titled it evrything form boost leak to new guy with boost problem. I have searched, read and tried. So i thought "Would someone..." would draw enough "curiosity" for people to look. Now if you have a suggestion paw140 please feel free, if you simply want to comment on my title..
Thanks to anyone who can provide usefull information!
11-11-02, 09:19 PM
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You need to grow up and learn some manners. Meaningless and non-descriptive thread titles waste a lot people's time and bandwidth and is a problem with this forum.
About your problem, maybe you should double check the hoses that go to your wastegate actuator. I'm not sure if that got changed when you went non. seq., but when mine got kinked I could not get over 7 psi. Also, since you have posted this multiple times and have been working on it so long to no avail, I will post a recent email that was on the big list. It doens't specifically address your problem, but it has some good troubleshooting techniques for the vacuum system.
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:46:14 -0600
From: "White, Jim A (MN65)" <jim.white@honeywell.com>
Subject: Re: (rx7) [3] Does no second turbo boost imply that precontrol
i sn't working? -- What I found.
On a car with a 10-0-0 boost pattern:
One list member suggested that the charge relief valve must be stuck
open.
I really liked that idea (and it was easy to test), so I checked that
first.
The charge relief valve was good.
So I went back to basics and tied a gauge into the pressure line on the
second turbo.
The second turbo was building after 3000 rpm to about 9 psi and holding
after 4500 rpm
while the first turbo fell flat on its face (zero or at best 1 psi)
after 4500 rpm.
So I concluded that the precontrol was spooling up the second turbo,
but that it wasn't
being switched in at 4500 rpm.
I tied the gauge into the control line of the charge control valve.
It showed vacuum up to 4500 rpm and then zero after 4500 rpm.
That was puzzling because it is supposed to switch from vacuum to
pressure
(from the second turbo).
Looking at the vacuum diagrams, I concluded that it was likely that the
pressure line
to the charge control solenoid had popped off. I removed the intake
manifold and
found that someone had been in there before (many paint dots on hoses
and pipes) and
that they had connected the pressure line for the charge control
solenoid to the upper
end of the "unused" pipe (the one that's for cars with automatic
transmissions).
There was nothing connected to the other end of that pipe and there was
nothing connected
to the pressure side of the charge control solenoid.
So when the engine reached 4500 rpm, the charge control solenoid
switched from vacuum
to nothing and the charge control valve didn't open. It requires
pressure roughly equal to
or greater than the first turbo pressure in order to open. Thus the
second turbo never
came on line.
But then why did the first turbo boost drop away?
If the charge control solenoid never opened, where would the boost from
the first turbo go?
This is somewhat speculation, since I didn't really do any tests about
it, but I suspect
that the charge relief valve vented the second turbo to the airbox
after it reached 9 psi
making the second turbo much easier to spin than the first turbo and
that all the exhaust
energy went into the second turbo rather than the first turbo. The
first turbo was free
to spin at only rate needed to match the incoming air flow and it just
spooled down.
I'll let someone else educate us on this speculation.
I reconnected the pressure line to the charge control solenoid and zip
tied it on.
After putting everything back together we went for a test drive -
perfect 10-8-10 boost pattern.
Unfortunately, that only lasted for two trial runs. On the third run,
something popped
and the boost went to 10-8-3.
I haven't gone back under the intake manifold again but I did check the
control line of the
charge control valve. Now it switches from vacuum to 3 psi at 4500
rpm. I suspect it was
a mistake to reconnect the original hose to the charge control solenoid
because that end
of the hose had been on a metal pipe slightly larger than the plastic
nipple of the solenoid
(so it may have been stretched) and it may have been hardened by the
heat on that pipe
(though the hose in general seemed fine). In any case, I suspect that
my zip tie was not
tight (especially if the end of the hose was hard) and that the hose
popped loose on the
solenoid and now leaks enough to only supply 3 psi to the charge
control valve.
It may be some time before I know the real answer because the owner is
going to put the
car away for the winter and I won't get to pull the intake manifold
again until then.
If I've learned anything from this, it's that speculation doesn't get
you very far.
Measuring pressure or vacuum by tapping into lines helps a lot more
(thanks Ashraf),
and removing the intake manifold and just looking around can lead to
the real culprit.
I hope this story may be useful to other list members and I thank all
the members who
offered suggestions as I started this adventure.
Jim White
VR '94 T/R2/R1/efini
http://www.NorthstarRotaries.com
http://www.rx7.net.nz/fdkai.htm
About your problem, maybe you should double check the hoses that go to your wastegate actuator. I'm not sure if that got changed when you went non. seq., but when mine got kinked I could not get over 7 psi. Also, since you have posted this multiple times and have been working on it so long to no avail, I will post a recent email that was on the big list. It doens't specifically address your problem, but it has some good troubleshooting techniques for the vacuum system.
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:46:14 -0600
From: "White, Jim A (MN65)" <jim.white@honeywell.com>
Subject: Re: (rx7) [3] Does no second turbo boost imply that precontrol
i sn't working? -- What I found.
On a car with a 10-0-0 boost pattern:
One list member suggested that the charge relief valve must be stuck
open.
I really liked that idea (and it was easy to test), so I checked that
first.
The charge relief valve was good.
So I went back to basics and tied a gauge into the pressure line on the
second turbo.
The second turbo was building after 3000 rpm to about 9 psi and holding
after 4500 rpm
while the first turbo fell flat on its face (zero or at best 1 psi)
after 4500 rpm.
So I concluded that the precontrol was spooling up the second turbo,
but that it wasn't
being switched in at 4500 rpm.
I tied the gauge into the control line of the charge control valve.
It showed vacuum up to 4500 rpm and then zero after 4500 rpm.
That was puzzling because it is supposed to switch from vacuum to
pressure
(from the second turbo).
Looking at the vacuum diagrams, I concluded that it was likely that the
pressure line
to the charge control solenoid had popped off. I removed the intake
manifold and
found that someone had been in there before (many paint dots on hoses
and pipes) and
that they had connected the pressure line for the charge control
solenoid to the upper
end of the "unused" pipe (the one that's for cars with automatic
transmissions).
There was nothing connected to the other end of that pipe and there was
nothing connected
to the pressure side of the charge control solenoid.
So when the engine reached 4500 rpm, the charge control solenoid
switched from vacuum
to nothing and the charge control valve didn't open. It requires
pressure roughly equal to
or greater than the first turbo pressure in order to open. Thus the
second turbo never
came on line.
But then why did the first turbo boost drop away?
If the charge control solenoid never opened, where would the boost from
the first turbo go?
This is somewhat speculation, since I didn't really do any tests about
it, but I suspect
that the charge relief valve vented the second turbo to the airbox
after it reached 9 psi
making the second turbo much easier to spin than the first turbo and
that all the exhaust
energy went into the second turbo rather than the first turbo. The
first turbo was free
to spin at only rate needed to match the incoming air flow and it just
spooled down.
I'll let someone else educate us on this speculation.
I reconnected the pressure line to the charge control solenoid and zip
tied it on.
After putting everything back together we went for a test drive -
perfect 10-8-10 boost pattern.
Unfortunately, that only lasted for two trial runs. On the third run,
something popped
and the boost went to 10-8-3.
I haven't gone back under the intake manifold again but I did check the
control line of the
charge control valve. Now it switches from vacuum to 3 psi at 4500
rpm. I suspect it was
a mistake to reconnect the original hose to the charge control solenoid
because that end
of the hose had been on a metal pipe slightly larger than the plastic
nipple of the solenoid
(so it may have been stretched) and it may have been hardened by the
heat on that pipe
(though the hose in general seemed fine). In any case, I suspect that
my zip tie was not
tight (especially if the end of the hose was hard) and that the hose
popped loose on the
solenoid and now leaks enough to only supply 3 psi to the charge
control valve.
It may be some time before I know the real answer because the owner is
going to put the
car away for the winter and I won't get to pull the intake manifold
again until then.
If I've learned anything from this, it's that speculation doesn't get
you very far.
Measuring pressure or vacuum by tapping into lines helps a lot more
(thanks Ashraf),
and removing the intake manifold and just looking around can lead to
the real culprit.
I hope this story may be useful to other list members and I thank all
the members who
offered suggestions as I started this adventure.
Jim White
VR '94 T/R2/R1/efini
http://www.NorthstarRotaries.com
http://www.rx7.net.nz/fdkai.htm
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11-12-02, 12:15 AM
#8
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Now thats what i am talking about!! I am going to go through and redo all silicone hoses. The previous owner had the wrap job done awhile ago and i have noticed it was only the upper hoses(none on the wastegate etc..). Also some of the ty wraps are cracking. Now that i am non-seq it shouldn't be to bad to redo. I also noticed today theres oil on lines around the primary turbo (like on the wastegate and precontrol hoses@ the turbo) Nee to check that out too. I have only had the car two weeks and i thought i would have it to full boost by now. Sigh..... i guess welcome to FD's, ey!? I guess i can't complain, a 93 Touring FD with 12k on reman for under 7grand, i'll deal with a headache or two.
Darron
oh and paw140, sorry, bad day.
Darron
oh and paw140, sorry, bad day.
Last edited by Casper23; 11-12-02 at 12:24 AM.
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