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WIerdDDDd situation need help

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Old 10-13-05, 01:30 AM
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NAN777

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Unhappy WIerdDDDd situation need help

hi guys,

i have a 94-FD3S. almost 100% stock with stock TWINS. but with following mods

1. Blitz NUR SPEC muffler
2. Straight Down Pipe (no CAT at all, not even main cat)
3. Apexi Power Flow Air Filter

a month ago my car was diagnosed at dyno with 250bhp on the crank
that was the time i sent in for a clutch replacement and rear absorber fix.


a month later. lost of power at top end. in between my brother have been driving it. they say it has been like that since they collected the car after the clutch replacement

my dyno ready is 220 Bhp. and my A/F ratio dropped.

1st turbo kicked out with better bhp, but 2nd turbo did kick in but not strong enough. ended up 220 bhp.

the mechanic doesn't know what's the cause. suggested S-AFC2. and i put it on. they pushed it back to 260bhp on the crank.

but realised that fuel consumption did not change. still VERY HIGH.... about 11 MPG... terrible...

i plan to sent it for a full check up at some rotary experts. probably change my fuel filter. change back to mineral oil (someone say it's ok for synthetic oil). do a compression check on the APEX seal health and also my radiator coolant seemed to be getting lower day by day need to add every 3 days. about 200 ML

please suggest what can i do with it....


oh yeah... one more to add.... on the wheels..... it's only 190BHP need suggestion here...


Old 10-13-05, 05:56 AM
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What's the boost hitting? Boost pattern?

If you're not getting full boost then clearly you won't get full dyno power.

Dave
Old 10-13-05, 07:38 PM
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thanks for taking a look at my problem.

the attached is my dyno tune files. less than 200bhp on the wheels





when they do dyno tune they hook up a HKS boost meter.

the boost reading if i'm not wrong, 0.5 PSI - 0.6 PSI - 0.5 PSI.

after i hook up the S-AFC, the pressure reading when i check on 3rd gear WOT,

0.43 mmhg - then it drop a little.. then i goes back up to 0.43 mmhg. (based on the graph mode check)

when the days are hot.... the knock level varies around 15 to 20... morning.. it is less than 5.

idle is smooth... when rev high (on the dyno) the exhaust whitish greyish smoke. does it signal weak Apex seal ? or coolant consumption ? i need to add coolant every few days...

the S-AFC2 is something that they recomend me to add to adjust back the air/fuel. and also suggested me to get a boost controller. but i refused to. until i found out what's the root cause of such high petrol consumption and the drop of 20 bhp over a month.

i plan to take it to another rotary specialist to check on the compression and also the boost pressure. will check also if there's any leakages of pressure etc. but tha'ts gonna be like 1 month time when i drive the car back my home town as now the place i'm in has no capability at all on rotary.

Last edited by NAN777; 10-13-05 at 07:44 PM.
Old 10-13-05, 07:47 PM
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first of all, your boost should be 10 -12 -10 psi. Maybe you meant bar instead of psi? That sounds like your turbos or control system is at fault. I would try and troubleshoot the turbo control system if your boost pattern is off. here is a link http://www.autosportracetech.com/RX-...leshooting.htm
you need to determine if your turbos are functioning properly. The coolant loss is bothering me, could be a coolant seal. DO a compression on the rotors, FIRST. then check the turbos. good luck
-Jason
Old 10-13-05, 08:19 PM
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i appologize... it's BAR....

anyway, do you know anything about the calculated about 11 MPG ? that's terrible... i cry everytime i pump petrol in it.

i calculated.. BAR convert to PSI.... ended up... 0.5 bar is about 7.25 PSI... darn.... something must be leaking...

my pattern should be 7.2- 8.7- 7.2


so what i can see over here is that... changces are the

1. possibly fuel filter badly clogged
2. compression problem
3. boost problem
4. coolant seal problem


need help one more help on the extremely bad fuel comsumption 11 mpg

Last edited by NAN777; 10-13-05 at 08:25 PM.
Old 10-13-05, 08:40 PM
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1. When was it last changed (fuel filter)
2. Not necessarily
3. Definate possibility.....should be 10-8-10 stock (but full exhaust and better flowing intake you should see more like 12-10-12 with spiking) not good with the stock ECU
4. Need to find out where the coolant is going or a rebuild is eminent if it over heats
Old 10-13-05, 11:24 PM
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last change fuel filter.... god knows when.. probably 10 years ago... i think.. i got this car 2nd handed.

other than the boost pressure that i definitely getting it to check...
and also rotor compression number.

the 2nd important thing in my mind is the MPG terrible.... 11 MPG... ohhhh my god.....
Old 10-14-05, 05:52 AM
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Change the FF now... very important...

Dave
Old 10-15-05, 04:32 AM
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thanks man..... appreciate your suggestion....

will get that changed as soon as possible.

any idea if the fuel filter is FD3S specific or any place or filter will do the trick ?

if it's FD3S specific, then i need to get it back to my home town to change.


stay tuned. i'll update some information once i got it changed.

anyway, i've checked the turbos and hoses. nothing leakage, some rubber hose are a little bit worn internally but no splittings. did a clean up on the intercooler, the hoses, in and out. the rest... too difficult to take out,,, especially the turbo charger unit which is burried deep inside.

the turbo actuator seemed to be working fine as i see the actuator movement and the shinny center cylinder of the actuator.

as for the pressure wise, probably i'll take it to the rotary experts to take a look at it. that'll be when i got back to home town. :P

going to Hong Kong this weekend. not sure if the place have any cool parts. probably looking at a boost controller if it's not too expensive. :P

as the engine ages, the boost will drop right ? what i afraid is the turbos are running injured or tired.
Old 10-15-05, 06:18 PM
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How many miles are on your engine? When was the last time you changed your O2 sensor? If you're running a full exhaust, stock ECU, and you have a bad O2 sensor, that could be saving you from a rebuild because when the ECU can't read the O2 sensor anymore, it goes pig ritch. swap your O2 sensor, your fuel filter, air filter, and get a PFC and get it tuned. the PFC may be 1k+ american, but it's cheaper than a new motor and possibly new turbos.

Engine age has nothing to do with boost levels. if your turbo seals are starting to go, or the control system is not functioning right, that is when you'll have erratic turbo operation. i'd suggest warming up your engine and spraying soapy water on the rats nest and seeing if any of your lines are cracked from age/heat.
Old 10-16-05, 03:12 AM
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thanks man...

my car has a 85K KM ( not miles) on it. if calculated miles, probably 50 to 60 K miles. 1st owner... weekend car... 2nd owner... occasionally driving it. me... go office.. back from office.

i'll try to shoot some soap powder and try and see if any bubbling up.

anyway, this test should i rev it up ? bcoz i think reving it up the turbulance will blow away the soapy water anyway.

1. fuel filter
2. O2 sensor
3. test for leakage at the rat area.

oh yeah... i got temporary a S-AFC2 to make sure the mix is good for now. cheapest solution. the tune up and the PFC cost almost 5 K in malaysia dollars. which in turn... about 1.3 K USD. will look into it... maybe getting a used one. cheaper

will see howw
Old 10-16-05, 11:33 PM
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hi all,

i just curious about one thing....

can i know what's the effect if the fuel filter is badly clogged ?
does it induce heavy fuel consumption ?
my engine does not die nor having bad idle. when i rev up, the engine goes up smoothly.
no sign of jerking or short of fuel delivery. just lack of power after my clutch replacement.

i'll definitely look at the O2 sensor and the turbo leakage. or maybe the previous owner adjust the blow off valves too loose to protect the turbos... not sure. need to test it myself or send to rotary experts.
Old 11-04-05, 06:39 PM
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latest news, the car went to the rotary expert over the weekend.

i pointed out to him that the car has whitish smokes when rev at high RPM and when ONLY the rpm going down from 8000... if continue rev.. no smoke.

he says chances of it is the primary turbo is injured. but still usable. he suggested that wait till it's really dead only see what's the exact problem. servicing the turbos are expensive. getting a reman turbo kit is better.

as for the fuel filter... nope.. didn't get it done. they say it's too hidden behind the gear box.
due to public holidays... and they are extremely busy with some FC that need to put in original engine, i didn't get anything done.

as for O2 sensor, he says less likely the O2 sensor is causing the high fuel consumption. won't die easily.

then i started to scratch my head.. previous owner says that normal driving, once in awhile reving, millage is 300 plus Kilo meters for one full tank.
but i only get about 250 or less..
with AFC, it gets better more than 260.

where should i suspect ? oil tank leak ? ehehehhe
Old 11-04-05, 10:40 PM
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Doesn't sound like your specialist knows how to troubleshoot the boost control system. The first place probably screwed up a vac line or a boost coupler (search for boost leak for more info).

If you are mechanically inclined, go to the FAQs and check out the link for Turbo troubleshooting.

https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/faq-3rd-gen-other-useful-links-68640/
Old 11-21-05, 12:06 AM
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i got myself dissembling the IC. found out inside the tubes are coated with oil... not to say so oily until it drips out. but approximately.. if i pour it all out.. it should be around a table spoon, that's inside the IC. as for the collapsible hoses, also another tea spoon.

sprayed some dissolver and got rid of it.. will check it again couple of weeks from now.. if the hoses are stained again.. probably need to inspect the turbos or maybe some oil seal got Fck ed up.

which oil seal is it... that's what i have to ask... need rebuild ?
Old 02-15-06, 09:31 AM
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hi guys,

i've patched the boost leak... found out there's a one way check valve was torn into 2 slice... and my Y pipe coupler is dead... oil coming out of it and it's loose.... replaced with hi grade silicones and replaced the expandable IC pipes with RE amimeya alluminum cast pipes.

now i have another problem..... when i drive hard.... it seemed like my car is jerking at higher RPMS like 5000 ~ 6000 onwards... feels like fuel cut.. but it comes on and off....

the boost pressure... no idea.. that time i don't have the boost meter yet... i've installed already... but the installation and the trouble shooting are doing parallel at one of the work shop in my country.

do you guys know anything about it ? high RPMs... they seemed to be cutting fuel ... on and off...

are those boost cut ? or boost creeps ? boost spikes ?
Old 02-15-06, 01:18 PM
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fuel cut... not good.
put the boost gauge in and USE IT... that $100 gauge will save you a $3000 engine.
Old 02-15-06, 02:30 PM
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You are running a full exhaust on the stock ecu with the S-AFC, that's your problem. You'll be lucky if the engine isn't blown or hasn't been weakened. Your "specialist" is clueless about properly modifying FDs.
Old 02-15-06, 07:06 PM
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the S-AFC is already been ripped off.. because of theft....
the car is still in other factory inspecting the boost, solenoids and vacuum hoses.
i'm driving it safely..... until i get myself a PFC or a modded ECU...
i'm looking at RE-Amimeya ECU... or Mines ECU... PFC is good to have.. but need to source for it....
Old 02-18-06, 08:32 PM
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hey masters,

i got a question here. recently i've sent my ride to local RE mechanic (not very expert but good experience) to fix the vacuum hoses. yeah it's done.. my boost are standing at 0.7 bar and no hesitation. and also replaced my punctured radiator. sorry dave.. my dad sent it to replace without even noticing me.. i know u have one extra.

today the AST failed on me. the buzzer went on ... and yeah... got someone send me replacement AST to get my ride moving. the problem i see just about an hour before the failure... gears are difficult to shift.... i'm in a hell mass jam.

the RPM of the engine shots up to 3K rpm and hold on it..it's warmed or cold also same.... and the exhuast is like constant farting.. blup blup blup blup... not the usual back fire bang bang....

anyone know what' that ?
Old 02-18-06, 08:44 PM
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if your running full exhaust a remapped ecu may not be good. with an open exhaust u really need something like a pfc if u hope to control it. and get a boost gauge my god! if your boost is really low your lucky because i would think it would higher be spiking like crazy!

and if u get a pfc find someone more competent to tune it. good luck!
Old 02-19-06, 09:32 AM
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i got my car patched up... i don't know what the RE mechanic did... but with all the settings... my boost is controlled at 0.7 bar...

what i understand from the RE amemiya ECU, they refined the map, the timing, 2nd boost comes 4.2K rpm. boost cut raised to 0.95 bar. normal run will be 0.8 to 0.85 bar.

meant for mild mods like DP MP catback air filter, the power will be around 280 to 300 rwhp that's what they claim...
and with 3 core Front mount IC, it should be able to touch 380.

some guy on ebay selling one of these...
it's very rare over in US... but it's really common in Japan...
Old 02-19-06, 10:43 AM
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1. A small amount of oil in the piping and IC is normal, as long as it is not a large amount.

2. Did you ever replace the fuel filter? That is very important.
Old 02-19-06, 10:56 AM
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you have too many "weak links" in your system. i suggest you rectify these things first before you have a blown engine on your hands.

1. get proper ecu. with this you'll be better able to dial in fuel based on your setup. the re-ecu you've got doesnt tell you its limitations and before you know, its going to cost more for an engine.

2. fuel-filter
Old 02-19-06, 06:46 PM
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hi all,

sorry for the confusion.. my car came with below configuration

1. DP
2. MP
3. Catback
4. blitz NUR spec
5. Apexi dual funnel air filters
6. stock ECU (it's bad, i know)
7. pre-cont solenoid disconnected and capped vacuum hose
8. wastegate cont solenoid disconnected and capped vacuum hose

i did a few things.. but didn't update here...
below are what i did below.

1. fuel filter changed
2. spark plug changed
3. changed to Hard IC pipe
4. replaced all vacuum hose to silicone
5. replaced the punctured radiator
6. changed the gear oil, lsd oil, brake fluid
7. connect everything back to stock, including replaced 1 of the faulty solenoid.
8. vacuum lines running stock configuration.
9. from over boost, fixed and managed to boost running at 0.7 bar on WOT.

now all of sudden, before the AST blew off, the car RPM is at 3000. no idea why, even the engine is warm and hot... after replace AST.. it's still 3000. it doesn't go down..

any idea why ? throttle position sensor gone ? or the throttle got hay wire ?


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