Who makes a good roll cage/bar?
03-31-02, 09:46 PM
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Who makes a good roll cage/bar?
I have been recently looking into getting a roll bar for my car. i looked at a touring model that had a cage made by kirk racing in it and while the fit and quality seemed great i have a concern with it. the driver seat still had plenty of movement, but the passenger seat had to be slid forward at straight up, it could not be reclined. does any one make a cage that will not interfere with the seat movements but is still a quality product. also this cage did have a cross bar and harness bar, and the seat was mainly hitting the cross bar. thanks for any help pointing me in the right direction, scott
03-31-02, 11:06 PM
#4
04-01-02, 12:13 AM
#5
I just installed an M2 roll bar that I am very happy with. Here is what I posted about it:
I installed my M2 roll bar today (I took a "work on my car" vacation day). It has a chro-mo main hoop, harness support strut bar, and rear support diagonal. I also had it powdercoated black, which is an extra $100, but I think most people have it done. It also has the fasteners to attach the rear cover thing (very nice!).
Including all the hardware and everything, it weighs 46.0 lbs. It is surprisingly light. It is really nicely made in the details. It seems to have decent joints and hardware, good clean welds, and the powdercoating makes it all look pretty. It exceeded my expectations in build quality. I got the M2 bar because it attaches to the shock towers in back, which seems to be the "right" place and minimized the amount of interior hacking you have to do.
It took me a little less than 7 hours to install it, including modifying the shock tower trim pieces and cleaning up my tools and stuff. I did it alone, which wasn't too bad but it would be nice to have someone help. I did it all with hand tools, and a cordless drill, except for the trim pieces, upon which I used a Dremel with a sanding drum after I drilled some pilot holes. Everything fits really well. Considering how snug it fits in the car, the bends and everything must be quite precise. For the rear support bars, main hoop, and support diagonal, you have to kind of fit everything together and then tighten it all down. I used an old floor mat and a hammer to bang the parts together, and had to hit some of the fasteners to poke them through sometimes (they have tapered tips, so no thread damage). It wasn't that the parts were the wrong shape, just that it all fits together snugly and you might need to give it some "impact encouragement". The only thing that didn't fit quite as nicely as the rest were the shock tower plates, which seemed to have too small a hole in the middle, but went down fine as I tightened the nuts.
The part I was most worried about were the floor plates, but they went together pretty easily. It seems unlikely that you can bolt one bent plate (inside) to one flat plate (outside) through a bumpy stamping (floor) and have all the holes line up and bolt together well, but it works. I drilled three of the holes from the top, and started by drilling two holes and bolting just one of them. With the back of the car in the air, I then used the stock jack and an old sway bar mount to push the plate up into the floor so I could thread the second bolt. If the holes on the plates were a little off, I just tapped the plate with a hammer to align it. If the hole in the floor was off a bit, I just ran the drill through again. I drilled the third
hole from the top and bolted it, so now I had three of the holes bolted up but not yet tightened down too much. I drilled the fourth hole from under the car, and to my delight the drill went right through the existing hole in the top plate both times. I stuck a bolt up through there and torqued them all down to 60 lb-ft. I should note that I added my own 3/8" hardened washers on both ends of the bolts, and I put the nuts inside the car to avoid having the bolts hang down and potentially snag on things under the car (like when I spin off the track into the dirt -- hey now I don't have to wish I had a roll bar!). Tightening everything up bends the floor a bit, but not in an alarming way.
I previously lost one of those black plastic things under the car in front of each rear wheel, and after pricing a replacement at more than $200, I removed the other one today. Installing the plates removes an essential fastener from the plastic thing. If I had both, I would probably have drilled a little hole in each lower plate and used a sheet metal screw to reattach the plastic thing. But since I only had the one side, I just removed it.
The bar does seem to stiffen up the back of the car quite a bit. The car even sounds more solid when you shut the doors. The rear shock towers are a source of a lot of noise, so I was expecting the car to be much louder with the bars sticking up from there. My initial impression is that it isn't much louder, but I only went for a short drive so the jury is still out. I did have a new "tink" noise that made me wonder if I remembered to torque all the fasteners. I'll go over it again this weekend and make sure nothing is loose. The main hoop and rear support diagonal get in the way of rear visibility a little, but the bar doesn't encroach on the passenger space in any noticeable way.
Overall, I give the bar a big thumbs up. It is expensive, but it is really nicely made and the fit is excellent. It fits with the cargo divider and the cargo cover (did I mention how much I liked the inclusion of those fasteners as an option?). The person that designed and makes this bar is very good at what they do -- it shows in the fit and craftsmanship of their work. I hope that I'll never need the bar for its intended purpose, but I will enjoy the chassis stiffening effects. Verdict: the M2 bar is way better than I thought a bolt-in bar could be.
-Max
I installed my M2 roll bar today (I took a "work on my car" vacation day). It has a chro-mo main hoop, harness support strut bar, and rear support diagonal. I also had it powdercoated black, which is an extra $100, but I think most people have it done. It also has the fasteners to attach the rear cover thing (very nice!).
Including all the hardware and everything, it weighs 46.0 lbs. It is surprisingly light. It is really nicely made in the details. It seems to have decent joints and hardware, good clean welds, and the powdercoating makes it all look pretty. It exceeded my expectations in build quality. I got the M2 bar because it attaches to the shock towers in back, which seems to be the "right" place and minimized the amount of interior hacking you have to do.
It took me a little less than 7 hours to install it, including modifying the shock tower trim pieces and cleaning up my tools and stuff. I did it alone, which wasn't too bad but it would be nice to have someone help. I did it all with hand tools, and a cordless drill, except for the trim pieces, upon which I used a Dremel with a sanding drum after I drilled some pilot holes. Everything fits really well. Considering how snug it fits in the car, the bends and everything must be quite precise. For the rear support bars, main hoop, and support diagonal, you have to kind of fit everything together and then tighten it all down. I used an old floor mat and a hammer to bang the parts together, and had to hit some of the fasteners to poke them through sometimes (they have tapered tips, so no thread damage). It wasn't that the parts were the wrong shape, just that it all fits together snugly and you might need to give it some "impact encouragement". The only thing that didn't fit quite as nicely as the rest were the shock tower plates, which seemed to have too small a hole in the middle, but went down fine as I tightened the nuts.
The part I was most worried about were the floor plates, but they went together pretty easily. It seems unlikely that you can bolt one bent plate (inside) to one flat plate (outside) through a bumpy stamping (floor) and have all the holes line up and bolt together well, but it works. I drilled three of the holes from the top, and started by drilling two holes and bolting just one of them. With the back of the car in the air, I then used the stock jack and an old sway bar mount to push the plate up into the floor so I could thread the second bolt. If the holes on the plates were a little off, I just tapped the plate with a hammer to align it. If the hole in the floor was off a bit, I just ran the drill through again. I drilled the third
hole from the top and bolted it, so now I had three of the holes bolted up but not yet tightened down too much. I drilled the fourth hole from under the car, and to my delight the drill went right through the existing hole in the top plate both times. I stuck a bolt up through there and torqued them all down to 60 lb-ft. I should note that I added my own 3/8" hardened washers on both ends of the bolts, and I put the nuts inside the car to avoid having the bolts hang down and potentially snag on things under the car (like when I spin off the track into the dirt -- hey now I don't have to wish I had a roll bar!). Tightening everything up bends the floor a bit, but not in an alarming way.
I previously lost one of those black plastic things under the car in front of each rear wheel, and after pricing a replacement at more than $200, I removed the other one today. Installing the plates removes an essential fastener from the plastic thing. If I had both, I would probably have drilled a little hole in each lower plate and used a sheet metal screw to reattach the plastic thing. But since I only had the one side, I just removed it.
The bar does seem to stiffen up the back of the car quite a bit. The car even sounds more solid when you shut the doors. The rear shock towers are a source of a lot of noise, so I was expecting the car to be much louder with the bars sticking up from there. My initial impression is that it isn't much louder, but I only went for a short drive so the jury is still out. I did have a new "tink" noise that made me wonder if I remembered to torque all the fasteners. I'll go over it again this weekend and make sure nothing is loose. The main hoop and rear support diagonal get in the way of rear visibility a little, but the bar doesn't encroach on the passenger space in any noticeable way.
Overall, I give the bar a big thumbs up. It is expensive, but it is really nicely made and the fit is excellent. It fits with the cargo divider and the cargo cover (did I mention how much I liked the inclusion of those fasteners as an option?). The person that designed and makes this bar is very good at what they do -- it shows in the fit and craftsmanship of their work. I hope that I'll never need the bar for its intended purpose, but I will enjoy the chassis stiffening effects. Verdict: the M2 bar is way better than I thought a bolt-in bar could be.
-Max
04-01-02, 12:29 AM
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My Lord Max!!! What do you do for a living? Write Novels!
...Either way, good write up. I should be installing my P.P. Racing Roll Cage here within a few months.
...Either way, good write up. I should be installing my P.P. Racing Roll Cage here within a few months.
04-01-02, 12:53 AM
#7
Max,
Can you post a pic showing how the bar attaches to the shock towers? I was told it does not interfere with adjustable shocks but from the pics on there site I cannot see how that is possible.
Thanks,
Eric
Can you post a pic showing how the bar attaches to the shock towers? I was told it does not interfere with adjustable shocks but from the pics on there site I cannot see how that is possible.
Thanks,
Eric
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04-01-02, 01:58 AM
#8
Yeah, I am long-winded, sorry. I posted that to the "big list" and just copied and pasted it into my post here.
I don't think the bar would interfere with any adjustable shocks. I don't have a pic of it installed on the car, but here is an exploded view of the LHS shock tower plate and the bars that attach to it:
I don't think the bar would interfere with any adjustable shocks. I don't have a pic of it installed on the car, but here is an exploded view of the LHS shock tower plate and the bars that attach to it:
04-01-02, 05:43 AM
#9
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Max,
I'm considering a roll bar/roll cage for safety's sake. The speeds I'm reaching make me think about the consequences of a catastrophic failure...
I'm considering the Kirk Racing roll bar/cage...but have read that the M2 is also great. The M2 seems pricey, and M2 appears to be very slow with shipping from CA to IN (took 3 weeks for an exhaust, can't imagine the wait for roll bar!).
I've read M2 stuff is high quality, but was not impressed with their dual tip exhaust system (the welds were poor quality). I hope the M2 roll bars live up to what everyone's been posting about M2's stuff...
Please list all the M2 roll bar parts you've used for your setup, and the approximate cost.
I'll be installing Willans 6-pt harnesses and Race Tech seats at the same time...
Anyone that has experience with the Kirk Racing bars/cages should chime in too!
I'm considering a roll bar/roll cage for safety's sake. The speeds I'm reaching make me think about the consequences of a catastrophic failure...
I'm considering the Kirk Racing roll bar/cage...but have read that the M2 is also great. The M2 seems pricey, and M2 appears to be very slow with shipping from CA to IN (took 3 weeks for an exhaust, can't imagine the wait for roll bar!).
I've read M2 stuff is high quality, but was not impressed with their dual tip exhaust system (the welds were poor quality). I hope the M2 roll bars live up to what everyone's been posting about M2's stuff...
Please list all the M2 roll bar parts you've used for your setup, and the approximate cost.
I'll be installing Willans 6-pt harnesses and Race Tech seats at the same time...
Anyone that has experience with the Kirk Racing bars/cages should chime in too!
04-01-02, 06:33 AM
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thank you for that great reply max. my main concern is the mobility of the passenger seat. i would like them to be as comfortable as possible, but also have saftey in the car. is there anyway that you could show a pic of the cage and the passenger seat. if not dont worry about it, and thanks again for the help. it sounds as if m2 is the way to go if it doesnt get in the way, thanks, scott
04-01-02, 09:41 AM
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Anyone know of a roll bar that has the front sections that come over the door unbolt off? More like a roll bar than a roll cage?? But where you can bolt them back if you plan on doing serious racing?
04-01-02, 12:51 PM
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04-01-02, 05:51 PM
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I purchased a Autopower roll bar...It came black but I had it painted a nice silver with a green pearl...The install was not too bad the hardest part was designing the trim around where the back bar bolts to the wheel housing. it comes with backing plates for more reinforcement. The passenger seat is a little shorter but so what the passenger will be prevliged just to get a ride anyway 
04-01-02, 07:59 PM
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This is the response I received from Kirk Racing:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for your interest. We do make both 4 point compeition bars as well as 6 point cages for the 3rd gen RX7. The competition bar includes a main loop with a diagonal and horizontal brace and two rear legs. This bar is usually made of a 1.75" x .120 DOM material and runs $315 plus shipping. The cage includes the rear section as described and a forward section that runs across the roof line and down to the floor with a windshield bar and one door bar on each side. This is also made of a DOM tubing and is available as a weld in ($545 plus shipping) or a bolt in ($595 plus shipping). We do not offer any of these in a chrome moly. The bar would weigh about 75 lbs. and the cage about 110 lbs. While you are adding weight, you will also be adding stiffness to the chassis which should help to make up for that a little. If you have any questions or need more information, please let me know. I would be happy to help.
Julie - Kirk Racing Products
205-608-1156
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Price seems much more reasonable than the M2 bar, no?
Anyone use the cage (front portion)?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for your interest. We do make both 4 point compeition bars as well as 6 point cages for the 3rd gen RX7. The competition bar includes a main loop with a diagonal and horizontal brace and two rear legs. This bar is usually made of a 1.75" x .120 DOM material and runs $315 plus shipping. The cage includes the rear section as described and a forward section that runs across the roof line and down to the floor with a windshield bar and one door bar on each side. This is also made of a DOM tubing and is available as a weld in ($545 plus shipping) or a bolt in ($595 plus shipping). We do not offer any of these in a chrome moly. The bar would weigh about 75 lbs. and the cage about 110 lbs. While you are adding weight, you will also be adding stiffness to the chassis which should help to make up for that a little. If you have any questions or need more information, please let me know. I would be happy to help.
Julie - Kirk Racing Products
205-608-1156
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Price seems much more reasonable than the M2 bar, no?
Anyone use the cage (front portion)?
Last edited by SleepR1; 04-01-02 at 08:03 PM.
04-01-02, 09:53 PM
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04-01-02, 09:54 PM
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FYI....
I got mine used but here it is at an excellent price at $272.00.
http://www.optauto.com/webstore/prod...k=yes&dept=962
I got mine used but here it is at an excellent price at $272.00.
http://www.optauto.com/webstore/prod...k=yes&dept=962
04-02-02, 12:30 AM
#21
Originally posted by slopoke
thank you for that great reply max. my main concern is the mobility of the passenger seat. i would like them to be as comfortable as possible, but also have saftey in the car. is there anyway that you could show a pic of the cage and the passenger seat. if not dont worry about it, and thanks again for the help. it sounds as if m2 is the way to go if it doesnt get in the way, thanks, scott
thank you for that great reply max. my main concern is the mobility of the passenger seat. i would like them to be as comfortable as possible, but also have saftey in the car. is there anyway that you could show a pic of the cage and the passenger seat. if not dont worry about it, and thanks again for the help. it sounds as if m2 is the way to go if it doesnt get in the way, thanks, scott
Since I don't have a diagonal on the main hoop, seat travel is not impacted much at all (but it is just a little). Unless you turn around and look at it, you wouldn't know the bar is there. Really. I wanted something that wouldn't get in the way, and the config I got is great in that regard.
Here's the list:
- 4 point main hoop in chromemoly $695
- rear support diagonal $127.50
- harness support strut brace (w/hatch cover fasteners) $60
- powercoat $100
Total: $982.50 + tax (sales tax sucks!)
Shipping was about $175 by truck.
It's expensive, but it fits great, doesn't get in the way, and wasn't too bad to install. It is the nicest bolt-in bar available for the FD, IMO.
-Max
