Stevey629

I was quoted 2400 for a core, and was wondering if u guys knew anywhere else that I could get one for cheaper. A shop here in SD quoted me 2400 for basically a mazda reman core, and said this may be the best option to go with, since my motor may have core problems. Is this true? I mean, I could take a chance and have the shop take my motor apart to find that there are no problems at all with the core, but the shop said that a lot of the time, there will usually be problems with one or more of either the side housings, or rotor housings. So, as insurance, the best option would to be to play it safe and get a mazda reman core, avoiding costs of taking my motor entirely apart.

suggestions on what to do? Replace with a completely new motor; get a mazda reman and use my old internals and install; or just rebuild the thing using parts all the old parts, and just lapp the side or rotor housings as needed. I think the best way to go would be to get a mazda reman core only, and use my internals if they are still in good shape, and of course with any of the "options" that I choose, I will be getting all new seals including but not limited to coolant o-rings, all rotor seals, apex, side, etc, and oil seals granted the mazda reman cores have new coolant seals and oil seals. So what did u guys do, or not do and what do you suggest?

One more thing, he said it wont be possible to port the reman core if I get one, because he will have to take it apart. Don't you have to take the core apart anyways to get the internals like the rotors and eccentric shaft in? Anyhow, I wanted to do a mild street port, and was wondering if this could be done to a reman. core. Im sure it can if the housings were taken apart, but I guess it would cost more. So the debate is whether or not to get that reman core, because if I can, I would like to port if at all possible, since the wallets busted, hitting up the bank for more cash would just not be any better.

BicuspiD

A mazda reman core will have a core charge where they charge you more until you turn in your old motor. I dont know what they are charging for cores nowadays, but be assured its probably well over $1k. Many people just drop the reman in and go, others will have the reman engine sent directly to a shop to be ported - Since you shouldnt need any new parts, the charges are much less than a rebuild. Labor to disassemble the motor is really minimal with the right tools and some experience. They crack it open, port it, and put it back together. Of course this invalidates the Mazda 12/12000 warranty ( do they even offer that on the remans anymore?)

The best benefit of using the reman is the down time on the car - since you will have a complete motor, you can just swap them.. If you can float the core charge for a few weeks, that should be plenty of time to ship it out to a shop to be ported

sevenup

iTrader: (1)

core charge is around 1k or more as bicsuid stated. shop around for a friendly dealer in your area. I was quoted $1850, $150 over dealers cost because i stated i was in the factory backed mazdaspeed program. also high balled at standard dealer retail price of $2090.00+tax& core charge by several dealers before i found one parts guy who cared about what i was doing,unusal to say the least...all that said still cheaper and easier than sending off to private builders after checking freight both ways unless you are lucky enough to live close to somebody good. Check with dealer on what to leave on and what to take off of core. core must be same as what you order. one more thing,my price was for 89 13bna ,so just call around you will get a fix on what the going price is real quick.

rotary-tt

The Mazda reman is not a 'core', it is the whole working motor. No need to take it apart unless you want it checked or ported. Should be $1950 or so from Malloy Mazda in MD + shipping. It's often more expensive to take your existing motor apart and fix than to get a reman so this is how many people go. If Mazda puts it in it has a 12 mo/12,000 mile warrenty. I believe that Pineapple Racing has the best 'tuner' motor deal for the price and their warrenty is better than Mazda's...

patriick

iTrader: (3)

I've read that porting may cause the car to fail a smog test since they tend to run rich at idle. I was tempted to get my new engine ported, but decided it wasn't worth the hassle. I guess it wouldn't be a problem if you plan to run an alcohol/gas mixture or replace both stock cats before the test.

What part of SD are you in? Are you planning to pull the motor yourself, or have Autotech do it?

Stevey629

ok, Im somewhat confused. What was suggested to me by autotech, was to get a core from mazda, and use my stock internals and put them into the new core. This new core by itself was quoted to me at 2400 from them. From what you guys are saying, I might as well get a whole mazda reman motor for less. Is this correct? And its only warrantied if its intstalled by mazda?

How much is it going to cost for pineapple racings "tuned" (mild street ported) motors, including shipping charges...and how long do their warranties last?

Another thing, is that I was really thinking about porting it, if I didn't get a motor that has already been ported. If I were to get either the assembled core or entire motor, taking it apart to port it should cost about how much? Because, Autotech said that it would cost quite a bit more (didnt give me a price), as they said upon receiving the core, they wont take it apart, unless I pay extra. Again, roughly how much will/SHOULD this cost? thx for the help guys. And patriick, I dont think Im going to be pulling the motor on my own. I was thinking of letting autotech pull it, unless you know how to do it all, and wanted to help me out, I think I might be able to remove it if I was pointed in the right direction.

BicuspiD

The "core" you are referring to from Mazda is, in fact, a complete working engine, remanufactured to specs.. The only reason you would take it apart is to port it or rebalance it. You can just drop it right in and go.

They (Mazda) charge a "core" charge, an incentive for you to return your exisiting/old motor to them, so they can remanufacture it. This charge is over 1000$. So then, if you wish to keep your old motor, for a spare, or to build as a race motor, you will not get the core charge refunded. The Actual price for the new motor will be the motor price, plus the core charge, which will be $3500 or so (assuming 2400 for the motor, 1000 core charge (not refunded) and taxes)


Pineapple charges $2495 for a 13BREW motor with a 5 yr/60k warranty - The street porting would be 250-500ish depending on how extreme. There are also other options one can add, cooling jacket modifications, oil pump/galley modifications, hardened stationary gears, etc etc. They require you to ship them a rebuildable engine. As far as shipping costs go, they can vary depending on your location, time in transit, preferred carrier, etc .

weblair24

iTrader: (1)

This may help:
Pineapple Racing

patriick

iTrader: (3)

Stevey629: Do you have a garage?

TTurboXfd3s

can someone explain exactly what is a core deposit? thanks

Stevey629

I really wish I had a garage. I do have access to some. Friends have garages. Why?

weblair24

iTrader: (1)

They want your old engine so it can be rebuilt and sold to someone else, so $1000 core charge is added to the price of the new engine to get you to send them your engine, but refunded once they receive your old engine.

Stevey629

so, it would cost me to approx 175 to ship my motor out there, and 175 to get the new one from pineapple. Cryogenic apex seals? Ive heard this can help as well. Comments.

Um, if I were to get a new motor, is it considered a salvage title for the car? Stupid ques, but I may end up selling the car, who knows.

weblair24

iTrader: (1)

I almost confused myself, I think BicuspiD explained it much better:

TTurboXfd3s

wth? i'm lost so it's like you're paying them to give them your motor? ...... don't pay attention to me....hahah

BicuspiD

hehe ok it doesnt get much simpler


You pay 2400 for a remanufactured complete motor from Mazda - Note this is not BRAND NEW - It is made from some new parts and usable parts of RETURNED CORES

They charge you 1000 extra if you do not send them a blown up/used motor - this is a core charge. It encourages you to return the dead engine, so they can take the usable parts back out of it.

Manufacturers have been doing it (core charges) for years, from starters to alternators to engines and transmissions - even brake cylinders back in the day- the frames and hard parts are cheaper to rebuild than using brand new equipment

The rotary engine, even blown up/smoking/leaking, still has a good chance of containing valuable , reusable parts ( Housings, Ecc shaft, rotors). These are what make up 75+% of a mazda remanufactured engine.

A brand new engine, from all new parts, would be very, very expensive..

SO you ..

Buy a motor from Mazda, and they charge you $3400 total .

IF YOU SEND THEM BACK A DEAD MOTOR YOU WILL RECEIVE $1000 BACK - This is "the" core charge

If you dont send them your old motor, then you do not get the core charge returned, and you now have 2 complete engines.

I don't know if I can break it down any further

flunkysama

iTrader: (4)

Jumping waaaaay back to your first post. The best way to tell if you really need a new core is to have compression test done using a special tester that can read the compression for each side of the rotar. Most likely, the only one near you with one of these will be your mazda dealer.

If is has OK compression and if the O rings are ok (do a search if you do not know what the symptoms of bad O rings are), you don't need a new core. Alot of "bad" mechanics will say you need a new core when they can not find the problem. (And in the process of putting the new core in, they will unknowingly fix the real problem).

Stevey629

alright. I gotcha now. Thx for clarifying.

Now the question still remains...Say I send them my blown motor and get my "refund". I get a reman one from mazda, and now I want to port it. How much does this cost, and is it worth it? Im assuming that the completely assembled reman core will have to get taken apart, ported and put back together. Wouldn't it be a bit more logical to take my current motor apart, lap the housings if needed, and port them right there? I mean, there could be other problems with my motor that Im not aware of, and might wanna play it on the safe side and get a mazda reman, but how often are the side and rotor housings in need of complete replacement?
From reading pineapples site, they want the blown motor, and would charge a bit more for a rebuilt motor, ported and with a warranty. Including shipping charges to send my motor to them, and for them to send it back, is this all worth it? Or should I ask the shop near me here in San Diego to port the motor here. Sorry that seemed like complete jibberish, but Im runnin low on sleep here.

Stevey629

interesting idea, however, from the way the motor is acting, I dont think that its still holding a seal. It spits out smoke like mad, has a chugging type idle reving from 500 up to around 1000 and back down. From what I remember, when I was driving it, it felt like the motor just lost a bunch of power, almost like the clutch got pushed in, and it wasnt getting power. My compression was equal before this happened, howver it was low, and I can't remember the figures.

BicuspiD

Depends on the mileage of the motor. If it wasnt overheated, the housings may still be reusable. The rotors may be reusable as well. A complete stock seal kit is around $1000 last I checked, so that plus labor plus porting and freight would be minimum it would cost you if you dont need anything else.

Rotors are 600ish apiece new if I remember right, housings 350-400? Anyways you get the picture, it can add up very quickly.

Call the shop you want to use tomorrow, and tell them you want to ship them a reman engine, how much to port it and upgrade the o-rings. I would imagine the labor will be minimal, unless you want everything checked out for specs and rebalanced or something

patriick

iTrader: (3)

Just wondering if you had a place to pull the engine and store the car, tools, parts, etc. I have an engine hoist and can walk you through the removal, or, Autotech can remove&replace for $1k. If you have the cash, having them do it is much more convenient. I did it myself and used the money towards tools and mods

Stevey629

ok, well I dont have enough time to pull the motor on my own. And I believe that autotech charges 1800 for R and I, Removal and Installation, granted its a 13B. Anyhow, I still dont know whether or not porting would be a good idea. I can't see how it really can be a bad idea, however the only problem again, would be having to take apart the new mazda reman core. And I've also heard that mazda remans have a bad rep for having all sorts of junky parts as far as internals, and even bad housings, killing the purpose of getting one. I read this somewhere, and also heard this from another mechanic that I was taking my car to, as he recommended against getting a mazda reman. So, is it most likely that Im going to need to get a new housing(s) whether it would be side, rotor? And is lapping them better if they're in bad shape assuming that they need it, and it would not shave things down too thin? I really want to find out whats going to be the best thing besides just getting an entirely new motor, which I really dont have funds for. I would assume that a fresh rebuild with as many new parts as needed, and not replacing ones that dont need it would be best, efficient and cost effective. But this should only be done knowing what is really wrong. Taking the motor apart to its utmost breakdown would cost more, and finding out that I might as well have gotten a new motor instead of trying to rebuild this one would be a waste of time and more importantly money. So Im in a rut here guys, help???

rxrotary2_7

although this is true for the most part... the last one i kept, i F'ed myself over. i knew the motor had about 15K on it and was strong before the *incident* so i decided to keep it. figuring on rebuilding it latter on and that at least *half* of the motor was still reusable. my dumb *** did not crack it open and check the condition of it. i dont know what i was thinking. at the time the core charge was $800. soooo... after it was cracked open... the whole motor was shot. 4 seals were cracked and dislodged, housings were scored up... and rotors had apex seals imbedded in them.
another thing... dont get cute after cracking it to check and try to toss some old n/a rotors in there or anything like that... they WILL know and WILL get you.... but if you have a few bad motors aleady sitting around... you can swap out the REAL bad rotors and housings and keep the good stuff and eventualy you will have a good spare, but make sure it is all the right stuff you put in to return.

rxrotary2_7

well... porting it will void the factory waranty. they paint bolts under the flywheel so they know if you have cracked it. i wouldnt do it if you are not already making 450+HP. ****... look for some threads by ErnieT. he ran a stock ported reman. besides voiding the waranty, you will need a new soft seal kit as the water seals have already been pressed and it is not going to be worth it to try to get them back in. (if you did go this route... you cna always buy an 86 n/a soft kit as the cost is less)
next thing... DAMN!! $1800!!! holy ****! and what does mean?!

next... yesterday a friend and i had this guys motor (reman w/ less than 2K miles on it) apart to replace an apex seal that cracked w/o the motor even running. (long story... short version... a backfire in the intake due to a leaky injector) and everyhing in there was NEW. i think a part of the quality of the rebuild comes from where you purchase the motor??? maloy mazda seems to have good prices/quality.
good luck with whatever you decide.

rotary-tt

I've been running a reman for the last 3 years without any issues. You are going to be in for major $$ if you try to piece a new motor together yourself. Below are the Mazda retail prices for the housings from last year.

Slide Section Description Part Number List Price

1-E 3 10-4001 Housing, Intermediate N3A1-10-D0B 458.65

1-D 3 10-1001 Housing, Rotor-Front N3Y2-10-570 658.15

1-D 3 10-1501 Housing, Rotor-Rear N3Y2-10-570 658.15

1-G 3 10-2001 Housing, Front N3F1-10-C00 399.25

1-G 3 10-3001 Housing, Rear N3YC-10-C50 399.25

1-I 3 10-6001 Cover, Front N3A1-10-500 209.30

As you can see, just the housings cost more than a Mazda reman and you're not getting the rotors, eccentric shaft, seals, etc. It does not take too many bad parts for your old motor to cost more to rebuild than just trade it for a reman.

The old Mazda remans had some issues but the newer ones are fine...