What in the world did i just come across?
#101
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
I just talked to Dave at Lindsey Racing. He says they don't have any additional data they are willing to share but they are setting up some dyno testing this Spring and will make inlet and outlet temps available for the air and the coolant. Kind of sucks they wont share anything but maybe down the road the test cars can be compared to similar cars with air-to-air setups.
In January last year they also told me they would have data available by Spring - but that was Spring of 2008...
- Sandro
#104
10-8-10
iTrader: (7)
First time I've seen this thread. Seems like one 10" or 12" unit could fit between the intercooler outlet and elbow into the UIM.
Seems like water injection would trump this though in terms of cost and effectiveness. I am definitely a big fan of water to air intercooling though.
Seems like water injection would trump this though in terms of cost and effectiveness. I am definitely a big fan of water to air intercooling though.
#108
10-8-10
iTrader: (7)
Just keep your stock IC and do a water injection system. It will do more than an upgraded intercooler and will cost much less. That is what I did so of course I favor that route.
The other thing you could do just install one of these tube air/water intercoolers in between your stock IC and the elbow.
I still say water injection will trump it though.
The other thing you could do just install one of these tube air/water intercoolers in between your stock IC and the elbow.
I still say water injection will trump it though.
#109
Senior Member
iTrader: (9)
looks cool and all...
i have only seen this setup used on full out drag cars ..that do one pass ..then they are turned off until next pass .. running on alcohol or methanol at high boost...
i never seen any one... use one on the street...but as i came to find out in this thread ...some high end exotic cars use it.....
so i dont see way it wouldn't work for a street car running low bust ...
lets say single turbo rx7 gt35r at 15psi ....or a larger turbo at 10 psi... for around 350-400 max rwhp range
i think it would work best with larger turbos and low boost and methanol injection for street...
i would definitely use two pipes instead of one ...and run a separate radiator for it...and use 50/50 antifreeze with it ...
benefit of this-- simple piping ,faster response,you dont have to relocate radiator,,
or the battery...
so i say 400rwhp max rotary response machine would work with this setup for street
mostly do to methanol injection....
but .....
if you wanna get in to some crazy numbers 450 or 500+rwhp on rotary with this setup one the street or circuit racing....i dont think it would work....you would pretty much need another 3row radiator in the car to cool the pipes...
this is primarily full out drag racing stuff not really for the street or auto x or circit...meant to cool more efficiently for short period of time
i have only seen this setup used on full out drag cars ..that do one pass ..then they are turned off until next pass .. running on alcohol or methanol at high boost...
i never seen any one... use one on the street...but as i came to find out in this thread ...some high end exotic cars use it.....
so i dont see way it wouldn't work for a street car running low bust ...
lets say single turbo rx7 gt35r at 15psi ....or a larger turbo at 10 psi... for around 350-400 max rwhp range
i think it would work best with larger turbos and low boost and methanol injection for street...
i would definitely use two pipes instead of one ...and run a separate radiator for it...and use 50/50 antifreeze with it ...
benefit of this-- simple piping ,faster response,you dont have to relocate radiator,,
or the battery...
so i say 400rwhp max rotary response machine would work with this setup for street
mostly do to methanol injection....
but .....
if you wanna get in to some crazy numbers 450 or 500+rwhp on rotary with this setup one the street or circuit racing....i dont think it would work....you would pretty much need another 3row radiator in the car to cool the pipes...
this is primarily full out drag racing stuff not really for the street or auto x or circit...meant to cool more efficiently for short period of time
#111
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I am curious though that you could always run a setup like below. Which would be Turbo-->A2W-->stock intercooler-->A2W-->TB. You definitely wont have any cooling issues on that route.
I am intrigued though on running a split dual like they did on this other porsche.
Doing something along these lines would help as well.
I would only run 3 hoses in and 3 out though. Running that many hoses from 1 split just kills your flow. You could do 2 pipes, back to back which would give you better cooling (IMO) then 1 long pipe.
I am intrigued though on running a split dual like they did on this other porsche.
Doing something along these lines would help as well.
I would only run 3 hoses in and 3 out though. Running that many hoses from 1 split just kills your flow. You could do 2 pipes, back to back which would give you better cooling (IMO) then 1 long pipe.
#112
Senior Member
iTrader: (9)
idk how much you know about porch 944... but what you see there is setup with stock turbo...
944 makes about 247 hp ...so it would work for stock rx7 to... Turbo-->A2W-->stock intercooler-->A2W-->TB...
you wouldn't gain anything, it just might look cool....and you would have to much going on in engine bay...
you are better of just adding methanol injection and greddy elbow.....on the stock car....should be able to get 350 with pfc and tuning ,,,,
when you add A-w there is no need for stock ic,,,,, it would just defeats the purpose as you wont gain any response or make it worse than it is ...
and you only need to run one hose in and one out ...the pressure from the pump will do the rest...
with that mods are you trying to run this setup....
944 makes about 247 hp ...so it would work for stock rx7 to... Turbo-->A2W-->stock intercooler-->A2W-->TB...
you wouldn't gain anything, it just might look cool....and you would have to much going on in engine bay...
you are better of just adding methanol injection and greddy elbow.....on the stock car....should be able to get 350 with pfc and tuning ,,,,
when you add A-w there is no need for stock ic,,,,, it would just defeats the purpose as you wont gain any response or make it worse than it is ...
and you only need to run one hose in and one out ...the pressure from the pump will do the rest...
with that mods are you trying to run this setup....
#113
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idk how much you know about porch 944... but what you see there is setup with stock turbo...
944 makes about 247 hp ...so it would work for stock rx7 to... Turbo-->A2W-->stock intercooler-->A2W-->TB...
you wouldn't gain anything, it just might look cool....and you would have to much going on in engine bay...
you are better of just adding methanol injection and greddy elbow.....on the stock car....should be able to get 350 with pfc and tuning ,,,,
when you add A-w there is no need for stock ic,,,,, it would just defeats the purpose as you wont gain any response or make it worse than it is ...
and you only need to run one hose in and one out ...the pressure from the pump will do the rest...
with that mods are you trying to run this setup....
944 makes about 247 hp ...so it would work for stock rx7 to... Turbo-->A2W-->stock intercooler-->A2W-->TB...
you wouldn't gain anything, it just might look cool....and you would have to much going on in engine bay...
you are better of just adding methanol injection and greddy elbow.....on the stock car....should be able to get 350 with pfc and tuning ,,,,
when you add A-w there is no need for stock ic,,,,, it would just defeats the purpose as you wont gain any response or make it worse than it is ...
and you only need to run one hose in and one out ...the pressure from the pump will do the rest...
with that mods are you trying to run this setup....
As for running multiple hoses in and out. It really depends on how the water flow area is set up. If the coolant can flow freely through the whole unit from one hose you would still find a hot zone on the opposite side of the hose intake.
From my understanding of water cooling capabilities and my experience in water cooling electronics: Faster flow on small cooling area or slow flow on larger cooling area = same cooling capabilites.
But again, it would be a huge waste of money on a stock setup.
#114
10-8-10
iTrader: (7)
The whole deal is cost prohibitive if you consider that you can achieve better results for much less money. It does look very cool though.
It seems like a lot of work running any kind of air-water intercooler when you can have direct contact between the air and water by running water injection.
If air-water IC is better than air-air, then direct contact using water injection comes out on top by far, plus it's proven, can be done for well under $500.
Again, it looks cool but for those that already have a nice SMIC or FMIC, adding water injection would do much more than just piling on additional intercoolers.
It seems like a lot of work running any kind of air-water intercooler when you can have direct contact between the air and water by running water injection.
If air-water IC is better than air-air, then direct contact using water injection comes out on top by far, plus it's proven, can be done for well under $500.
Again, it looks cool but for those that already have a nice SMIC or FMIC, adding water injection would do much more than just piling on additional intercoolers.
#115
Senior Member
iTrader: (9)
totally agree with adamrs80....
you can buy methanol injection kit for 350$ from AEM
running this pipes with stock ic is just waste of money and time
because methanol injection is way more efficient
and installation is more simple ... some shops will install and tune it for 500$ including the unit ...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
now if you are interested in only cooling your stock rx7 with stock ECU... one 10" pipe it
should be better than your stock ic ...
if you add to may things inline you will kill the flow....and response time
by running one 10" you will get the cooling you need and better response ...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
you can buy methanol injection kit for 350$ from AEM
running this pipes with stock ic is just waste of money and time
because methanol injection is way more efficient
and installation is more simple ... some shops will install and tune it for 500$ including the unit ...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
now if you are interested in only cooling your stock rx7 with stock ECU... one 10" pipe it
should be better than your stock ic ...
if you add to may things inline you will kill the flow....and response time
by running one 10" you will get the cooling you need and better response ...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#116
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
iTrader: (17)
I saw a custom one once, worked extremely well! They modified an air/air IC sealing up the ambient air area, filling it with some type of wax that melted at 50C or so and leaving some air space for thermal expansion. At testing they found that the phase change pulled lots of heat out of the air charge and since they used a huge core the wax never melted completely and went back to solid when off-boost. Charge air never went over 50-55 C.
Only thing is that they could not use a lower temp wax because it would be liquid at ambient temps and they would lose the phase change.
#117
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I saw a custom one once, worked extremely well! They modified an air/air IC sealing up the ambient air area, filling it with some type of wax that melted at 50C or so and leaving some air space for thermal expansion. At testing they found that the phase change pulled lots of heat out of the air charge and since they used a huge core the wax never melted completely and went back to solid when off-boost. Charge air never went over 50-55 C.
Only thing is that they could not use a lower temp wax because it would be liquid at ambient temps and they would lose the phase change.
Only thing is that they could not use a lower temp wax because it would be liquid at ambient temps and they would lose the phase change.
#118
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Cool looking and easier to incorporate into your system, but not every efficient. Doesn't come close to the regular a2w cores. I'm doing a MONSTER a2w on my FD right now, pictures and how to coming soon so come see it