At what point is an ignition amplifier necessary?
08-06-10, 06:22 PM
#1
Who say's i need a Van
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At what point is an ignition amplifier necessary?
I was wondering at what point does the stock ignition need help. I know for the injectors its pretty clear cut. Such as add power until tune is around 85% injector duty cycle. I was wondering at what point is an ingnition mod (such as an ignition amplifier) is imperative?
my mods so far are:
Intake
down pipe
mid pipe
cat back
pfc smic
walbro hp fuel pump
PFC
meth injection (for reliability only)
all reliability mods have been done and i repaced the spark plugs with NGK 9's all around and new wires as well.
It dynoed at 309 whp 366bhp @13.5 psi
I have some 1300cc secondaries going in next and no higher than 15psi
Im looking for greater than 325whp
I would like to hear some feedback from people who went as far as they could on the stock ignition coils w/out modification and what differences an amp made at that point.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pZQVvMI5RM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6b75LOm4-s
my mods so far are:
Intake
down pipe
mid pipe
cat back
pfc smic
walbro hp fuel pump
PFC
meth injection (for reliability only)
all reliability mods have been done and i repaced the spark plugs with NGK 9's all around and new wires as well.
It dynoed at 309 whp 366bhp @13.5 psi
I have some 1300cc secondaries going in next and no higher than 15psi
Im looking for greater than 325whp
I would like to hear some feedback from people who went as far as they could on the stock ignition coils w/out modification and what differences an amp made at that point.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pZQVvMI5RM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6b75LOm4-s
Last edited by Hotwheelz; 08-06-10 at 06:29 PM.
08-06-10, 06:33 PM
#3
Original Gangster/Rotary!
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I'd say the OP is about at the stage where you should consider an ignition amp, I'm very partial to the HKS Twinpower. Not cheap, but easy install and works very well.
08-06-10, 06:55 PM
#4
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a local tuning shop. they say you only need it at that point. the stock coils are good but turbo 2 coils are better. besides.. my car is running fine with the t88 and and the pfc tune. there is no ignition break up. i guess it all depends on the setup and how its been tuned.
08-06-10, 07:40 PM
#6
I got breakup at around 300 whp, which the TwinPower cured instantly.
It really depends on the state of the car's ignition system components.
What is the name of this shop that quoted the 600 hp figure? Are you sure they were not talking about the stock coils?
It really depends on the state of the car's ignition system components.
What is the name of this shop that quoted the 600 hp figure? Are you sure they were not talking about the stock coils?
08-06-10, 07:54 PM
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are you sure they were not talking about the stock coils?.. of course we were.. because we were talking about my car :P as for the shop its called vector auto and the owner has 3 fds and hes built many race cars.. that he personally races.. maybe instead of just buying a ignition amp.. maybe you should have figured out the weak point in your particular ignition system. could simply be a bad ground.. not trying to be a jerk by the way.
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08-06-10, 08:21 PM
#8
are you sure they were not talking about the stock coils?.. of course we were.. because we were talking about my car :P as for the shop its called vector auto and the owner has 3 fds and hes built many race cars.. that he personally races.. maybe instead of just buying a ignition amp.. maybe you should have figured out the weak point in your particular ignition system. could simply be a bad ground.. not trying to be a jerk by the way.
08-06-10, 08:39 PM
#10
PFC - but I was not running rich, if that is what you are getting at . I am familiar with the effects of ignition breakup due to excess fuel dumping and, in my experience at least, you have to be running humoungously rich to cause that.
My car only had 50k or so miles at the time so I was surprised at relatively low breakup point - though there does seem to be a wide variance here. Some have reported doing fine to 400 whp.
My car only had 50k or so miles at the time so I was surprised at relatively low breakup point - though there does seem to be a wide variance here. Some have reported doing fine to 400 whp.
08-06-10, 08:54 PM
#11
A quality clean spark is important no matter your power goals...
I'm shooting for 400whp with my 35R & plan to use a Twin Power. Granted, this is a good cure to the stock setup. If you were to change your ignition setup completely then an amp may not be needed.
As mentioned, it mostly comes down to age & heat. The OEM coils take a beating from the heat in their stock placement.
The stock FD coils are good coils.... Ray at Malloy Mazda can hook you up with a new leading, & with the combo of a Twinpower you should be solid..
GL OP
I'm shooting for 400whp with my 35R & plan to use a Twin Power. Granted, this is a good cure to the stock setup. If you were to change your ignition setup completely then an amp may not be needed.
As mentioned, it mostly comes down to age & heat. The OEM coils take a beating from the heat in their stock placement.
The stock FD coils are good coils.... Ray at Malloy Mazda can hook you up with a new leading, & with the combo of a Twinpower you should be solid..
GL OP
08-06-10, 09:48 PM
#12
I realize this is the 3rd Gen forum, but I have a 2nd Gen race car (in addition to my 3rd Gen) and I was wondering if anyone could rough-out a diagram of how to hook up an AEM Twinpower amp to the 2nd Gen (N/A) igniters. I am sure I can figure it out, but it always helps to see someone else's work to cross check. Thanks for any help.
08-06-10, 09:57 PM
#13
Original Gangster/Rotary!
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The grounds were double checked and were fine. I also tested coil resistances, which were within factory specs (not that that means much). Three new coils for an FD are $450+ and I found an unused TwinPower for $300 (and it pretty much has a resale value of same) so it seemed like a no-brainer.
08-06-10, 10:16 PM
#15
This.
I changed my coils 8k miles ago with ones that were "low mileage". Seller promised it was in the 30-40k range so i took his word for it.
Change my plugs once a year. So just 2 and a half months ago i had just changed them.
Always run fresh gas, fuel filter also done 8k miles ago.
And i get ignition breakup at high rpm's.
Im gonna get the twinpower now lol. Its cheap, easy to install and after searching previous threads/posts, the success rate is almost too good to turn down.
08-07-10, 06:55 AM
#17
The stock coils perform well, add a HKS Twin Power, decent plug wires and spark plugs, the ignition system can support 500-600hp without issue.
We install the TP on just about every modified FD. If we are upgrading the fuel system, then we are upgrading the ignition system. Pushing more fuel and boost requires more spark.
We have seen ignition break up on cars as low as 12psi of boost on stock twins, that the HKS Twin Power instantly cured.
It is a little more expensive, but it amplifies all three coils, has a compact design that can be mounted just about anywhere and there is a plug and play harness available so that no cutting or soldering is needed.
http://banzai-racing.com/store/93+_r...ification.html
We install the TP on just about every modified FD. If we are upgrading the fuel system, then we are upgrading the ignition system. Pushing more fuel and boost requires more spark.
We have seen ignition break up on cars as low as 12psi of boost on stock twins, that the HKS Twin Power instantly cured.
It is a little more expensive, but it amplifies all three coils, has a compact design that can be mounted just about anywhere and there is a plug and play harness available so that no cutting or soldering is needed.
http://banzai-racing.com/store/93+_r...ification.html
08-11-10, 05:15 PM
#19
Some good iridium plugs will help get more out of any system. Smaller electrode = hotter spark for the same voltage. Any setup running a water injection kit can benefit from running an amp. Meth burns easier so it probably doesn't effect the chance of breakup much. In my opinion at that power level a water injection kit makes more sensor for reliability.
I run the twin power also, which works well for my mods. I'm certain without it I would have breakup.
I run the twin power also, which works well for my mods. I'm certain without it I would have breakup.
08-12-10, 12:14 AM
#20
I use an amp for a different reason: to improve drive-ability & throttle response, especially with ported / high overlap motors. Due to exhaust gas dilution at lower rpm's, the mixture can be difficult to ignite. I run a multi-spark (MSD) unit on the leading coil, its obvious advantage being that it gives more than one chance to ignite a stubborn charge. At higher RPM's this is rarely a problem; however, you still gain the advantage of having a capacitive discharge ignition. And although I've not experienced breakup issues per se, the improvement in low end response is significant (especially when used with good plugs) and makes the car much easier and more enjoyable to drive.
08-13-10, 07:04 PM
#21
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With stock ignition, mazdaspeed leads and R6725-11 plugs, I started getting a bit of breakup in the higher revs, with any more than 1.35bar on my T88-34D. Around the 535rwhp mark
Installing a twin power cleaned it all up. That little gold box was money well spent
Installing a twin power cleaned it all up. That little gold box was money well spent
08-13-10, 07:32 PM
#22
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How did it effect your electrode life? I don't notice any break-up with the stock coils and iridiums
08-13-10, 08:07 PM
#23
No it's not Turbo'd
Once I went single Turbo I had horrible Ignition Issues, but neither HKS Twinpower nor the AEM Shitbox cured, the shitbox(tm) did leave me stranded in the middle of an intersection 1 1/2 weeks after I installed it, AEM just said it failed... "they do that" .... OK....
The Motor let go 6 Mo. Later, after I installed the HKS, and I never did find out why I couldn't avoid High RPM Breakup.... I tried Colder Plugs (10's) I tried new wires 2 sets... new Coils From Malloy, the only thing I didn't do is all new grounds, which could have been the culprit, but who knows... It's all behind me..
The Moral of that story is, different cars have different problems, a lot of the hesitation and other issues can be ironed out by a Ignition Amp System, and work well, but I wouldn't just get one to get one, wait 'till the application warrants it.
The Motor let go 6 Mo. Later, after I installed the HKS, and I never did find out why I couldn't avoid High RPM Breakup.... I tried Colder Plugs (10's) I tried new wires 2 sets... new Coils From Malloy, the only thing I didn't do is all new grounds, which could have been the culprit, but who knows... It's all behind me..
The Moral of that story is, different cars have different problems, a lot of the hesitation and other issues can be ironed out by a Ignition Amp System, and work well, but I wouldn't just get one to get one, wait 'till the application warrants it.
