thats. cool.. 18 is right about where im planning on running when everything is here.. other thatn the usual fuel sytem, ingnition, and ecu upgrades... is there any other major thing that i need to make sure i get taken care of before i try this setup out... im plannin on a streetport also..

 

good clutch, a quality intercooler, and some good tuning.

Bryan@BNR
205 640 1193

 

cool.. how do i get a hold of a good set of bnrs for a fair price.. ???

 

http://www.bnrturbos.com/3rdGen.htm

 

Me!! J/K bring that thing down to Memphis sometime... we've got a pretty cool track down here. Maybe you've heard of it... Memphis Motorsports Park.

We've got a lot of SCCA events too.

 

If you're gonna run higher than stock boost... you should upgrade the fuel system. If you have to go with top-feed injectors, you'll have to remove the pump. I did it and I couldn't be happier. I'm also running 1680 injectors too. I know it's overkill but I plan on making more power and didn't want to hamstring myself.

 

 

I know the BNR'S are larger but the BNR primary shouldn't spool that late compared to the stock primary. The power band is too peaky and looks almost non seq like. The late spool is why you have such a huge dip in the power curve during transition. Artguy had upgraded seq twins capable of 400+ rwhp and was making nearly 250lbs at 3k. You sure your primary turbo boost isn't bleeding off somewhere? As someone above menchioned, you may very well have a solenoid problem at this boost level. If all the exhaust energy was hitting the primary (like they are suppose to in the low range), you should be making way more power down low.

 

Looking at just this dyno plot is misleading. They do spool a little slower as in the curve is not as steep on throttle tip in, but they exceed stock power in less than 500 rpm and hit over 250rwhp on the first turbo alone. Remember that a strong stock RX7 has around 225 rwhp total.

Also this car was not setup completely at the time the dyno was run, we were trying to work out a boost controller issue and had not dialed in the prespool. The torque really suffered from the poor transition, but I don't think top end horsepower did.

I would of like to make more high hp pulls once we got the boost under control, but it was just to risky with the lack of fuel on the top end. The car was delivered to the customer dialed in at 375 rwhp.

If the car had 1600+cc secondary’s, I feel confident we could of hit 450 rwhp as boost on that run was 17.2 psi. I think with the corrected prespool we could of reach peak power about 1000 rpm sooner and would of seen a significant increase in peak torque.

 

I forgot to add that the first turbo suffered in power and spool times on this run as it was extremely rich (10.4 afr) from the map I was using. I always start out with my “Safe” map (Pig rich) and remove fuel as needed.

 

Cool that clears up some things. It's really nice to see twins making these kinds of numbers. Much props!

 

Ramy

On the FAM speed website it has the turbos listed producing 499.2hp and 520hp on the twins and the Revolution for 420-430 hp

 

I see the Revolution twins for 420 - 430 PS (not hp); that's about the same as the KS ones. So nothing special there.

I don't see the FAM Speed ones you're talking about. Their "2007 Spec" twin turbo upgrade def. has a better cartridge, but they don't list a specific power output - at least not from what I saw. They do list their tuning services with which they claim "Sequential Control Specifications" producing "boosted 1.3 Kg torque 54.1 Kg/5225rpm: Horsepower 447.3 PS/6313rpm" and their "Sequential Cut Specifications" producing "boosted 1.3 Kg torque 54.6 Kg/5121rpm: Horsepower 455.6 PS/6502rpm."

But hey, I may be reading it wrong. Feel free to shoot me an email w/ the specific page you're talking about and I'll look into it further.

Thanks,
~Ramy

 

scroll down the page to the 4th dyno
you ll see it there

1 PS is 0.99HP so i would say its pretty much equal

 

ブースト１．３Ｋ・５４．５Ｋｇ／５２９２ｒｐｍ・４９９ＰＳ／６９７３ｒｐｍ
補正係数１．１５

"The Dyna pack arrangement of FAM SPEED 2007 RX-7 was performed, and the arrangement & power check finished. As for Injection of fuel control , only the 13B-REW normal engine port plan of specification is [ power & torque to worry ] F-con V Pro in - Dibbah Idku ring system at boost 1.3kg and torque 54.5kg/5292rpm and power 499.2HP / 6973rpm. The power so far came out and felt relieved in the normal engine & high flow turbine for FD3S!! If it is an engine of boost 1.5K specification, it is exaggerated 520ps. 13B-REW tuning of the user specification which becomes main [ FAM SPEED 2007 RX-7 specification ] in three years and which will come out and exist -- the engine Cheung TOTAL amount of money 1 million yen +alpha it is -- since -- Since engine tuning expense was a 234H.P. rise, the specification which becomes \4,270- / 1H.P. and is excellent in low cost completed it. This data is fed back to a user from now on!!"

quoted from the FAM speed site

 

Yea those are dyno results after THEM tuning their OWN shop car. Yes, I understand your point about them using those turbos to make that power, but all I'm saying is, they do not specifically claim those turbos to be capable of that much power. In fact, they have NO power ratings listed on their high flow twin turbos. And I only say this to be on the cautious side; I wouldn't go buying something hoping to make as much power as a shop-tuned car. Shop tuned cars are a *completely* different story. I can always ask them how much they rate their high flow twins for though, if you'd like.

~Ramy

 

This is the most excited Ive been on the forum in a while, because these are the turbos Im very near to ordering myself.

Especially
Question for chadwick: Would you be kind enough to post one of the smooth powerband dyno runs when you get a chance? Im very interested to see this. And would a 550/1600cc be the ideal for tuning to hit 450rwhp @ roughly 18 psi?

Excellent work!

 

I see what you mean.

Could you ask how much they rate them
?

Thanks Ramy

 

I've been in the twins business for a long time. I have only really heard stuff about knight sports and M2 having custom twins. M2 is out of business and is based out of australia. Knight Sports 420 is just a compressor wheel upgrade and it is almost equal to the stocker. They use the compressor wheel out of a SR20 Silvia and machine it to fit the stock shafts. I will never use the stock CHRA's EVER! They are throw aways after they let go.

As far as I know, this is by far the most out of sequential twins or non sequentials. Many people are running around with over 420 RWHP with the stage 3's.

I really don't see a reason to go single turbo in a street car. Put a set of nice drag radials on the car and run 16-17 psi and you will be driving a responsive and powerful car! I always told my customers that if you want more than 425 RWHP, go single. Now the bar has been risin, the twins are holding their ground and competing with medium singles (62-1/35R).

This is my opinion but I think that Sequential twin turbo cars will ultimately be more valuable than single turbo cars, and V8 conversion cars. Right now its the cool thing, but the more and more you alter the cars, the less they will be worth in the long run. Really the only way to make the car worth more is doing a quality 3 rotor swap.

Bryan@BNR

 

At these power levels the motor is revving much faster, solenoids and actuators simply cannot operate quick enough for a proper sequential operation.
You will get a dip as the dyno shows or uncrontrolled boost spikes during crossover.
Most dynos sheets of non-seq oem twins will see ~250rwh by 4500rpm and give you a very smooth curve.

Chadwick: Is it possible to post an uncrorrected dyno sheet, your dyno sheets are using a 1.21 for SAE correction.

Thanks
JD

 

a question regarding injectors guys

I was adviced by chadwick to use 850/1300 injectors in such application

i thought that the maximum injectors stock fd rail can handle is 850cc, correct me if im wrong.

To use the 1300cc secondary injectors, will i need another fuel rail?

Thanks

Con

 

Hey JD.

Thats just one of the benifits going to non sequentials. More linear graph.

Bryan@BNR

 

1300cc injectors are just bored out 850s so they will fit in the stock rail.

 

And whether or not the claims are true, there are indeed claims that the 1300s can stick, leading to catastrophic engine failure (search...there are a few threads about 'em from the past few years). I have yet to hear any complaints from the 1200s however. Just my $0.02 on that...

~Ramy

 

Which 1200s? You mean stock 850s bored to 1200? If so, there is probably not much of a sample size of these compared to the 1300s. Or are you talking about some other injectors?