3rd Generation Specific (1993-2002) 1993-2002 Discussion including performance modifications and Technical Support Sections.
Sponsored by:

Trouble getting the car started after rebuild

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Jul 4, 2020 | 06:37 PM
  #551  
MuRCieLaGo's Avatar
Thread Starter
Forever blown!
Tenured Member 15 Years
iTrader: (14)
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,370
Likes: 13
From: Trois-Rivieres (QC)
Originally Posted by Red94fd
Check that the oil drain from the turbo is good(no kink) and is 10 AN size at least.
make sure you have crank case vented(oil catch can).
do you have a restrictor on your tubo oil feed line? What size is the oil feed line?
What is the oil presure you see?
  • Oil drain line has no kink, I don't know which size it is though...
  • Oil catch can received, but not installed yet.
  • By restrictor, do you mean that there is a tiny hole in the flange for the oil to go through? If so, yes!
  • Unkown feed line size...
  • I cannot tell the oil pressure but I feel like it was OK.
I didn't change anything on my single turbo setup that was there before. I ordered a new turbo oil seal, I've got a good feeling that it is the problem.

Originally Posted by DaleClark
Quite possible the turbo bearings took some damage when you had your first engine with oil pressure problems. But, I'd get some more easy miles on the car to make sure you get everything to seat and burn off. You probably have a LOT of oil and residual crap in the exhaust from all the work.

I'm happy the gasket fixed that leak, still mystified that it would have been that much of a leak, though!

So what is your idle doing now?

Dale
I know that there was some residual oil to burn, but it was smoking much more after I took it for a drive, which makes total sense for a blown turbo.

Originally Posted by Narfle
Yeah, the turbo is the likeliest suspect in a smokescreen. Especially, if the rest of the engine is trustworthy. Has the smoking gone away, or can you bring it back at will?
Smoke went away only after I stopped the car for 1 hour. I checked spark plugs and they were covered with oil.

RIght now I'm waiting for the turbo oil seal.

Last edited by MuRCieLaGo; Jul 5, 2020 at 03:16 PM.
Reply
Old Jul 5, 2020 | 10:41 AM
  #552  
Red94fd's Avatar
Rotary Enthusiast
iTrader: (5)
 
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 814
Likes: 96
From: Florida
Yea, some flanges have an oil restrictor built in.
well, good luck and hopefully there is nothing else wrong with it.
Reply
Old Jul 5, 2020 | 01:35 PM
  #553  
Rotary Alkymist's Avatar
My mom lets me redline
Tenured Member: 10 Years
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 600
Likes: 132
From: Cornwall, ON
Is your PCV valve installed properly? Sounds like you might have pressure building up in your crankcase. Your symptoms point to that. See if that valve is installed correctly and in working order.

Is the return gravity fed on a 3rd Gen? Dale?
Reply
Old Jul 5, 2020 | 03:13 PM
  #554  
MuRCieLaGo's Avatar
Thread Starter
Forever blown!
Tenured Member 15 Years
iTrader: (14)
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,370
Likes: 13
From: Trois-Rivieres (QC)
Originally Posted by Red94fd
Yea, some flanges have an oil restrictor built in.
well, good luck and hopefully there is nothing else wrong with it.
Thanks... I know that I didn't answer most of your questions, but I've got a very good feeling that the turbo is simply blown. I remember that I found a lot of oil just like on the picture before I started the rebuilds process.

Originally Posted by Rotary Alkymist
Is your PCV valve installed properly? Sounds like you might have pressure building up in your crankcase. Your symptoms point to that. See if that valve is installed correctly and in working order.

Is the return gravity fed on a 3rd Gen? Dale?
PCV valve has been removed, I simply put a blank hose on the top oil filler neck nipple, and left the bottom nipple open in the air. Temporary setup before I install the oil catch can.

Last edited by MuRCieLaGo; Jul 5, 2020 at 03:26 PM.
Reply
Old Jul 6, 2020 | 11:37 AM
  #555  
Rotary Alkymist's Avatar
My mom lets me redline
Tenured Member: 10 Years
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 600
Likes: 132
From: Cornwall, ON
That might very well be your problem.
Reply
Old Jul 10, 2020 | 01:17 AM
  #556  
MuRCieLaGo's Avatar
Thread Starter
Forever blown!
Tenured Member 15 Years
iTrader: (14)
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,370
Likes: 13
From: Trois-Rivieres (QC)
Originally Posted by Rotary Alkymist
That might very well be your problem.
I have just read on the purpose of the PCV valve.

I think you could be right... Previously in this thread, I removed it. I would like to know what other guys here think of your idea!
Reply
Old Jul 10, 2020 | 08:45 AM
  #557  
DaleClark's Avatar
RX-7 Bad Ass
Tenured Member: 20 Years
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (56)
 
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 15,622
Likes: 2,725
From: Pensacola, FL
You have to have a PCV valve between the upper intake manifold and the oil neck if that hose is attached. If you have a straight hose, that's a problem.

Stock, you have the PCV from the left-pointing oil nipple to the UIM and a hose going from the down-pointing nipple to the primary turbo inlet, which is just filtered atmospheric pressure air. 95 Mazda removed the PCV and capped those 2 nipples, it's not really necessary.

For testing you may want to cap the UIM nipple and have both oil neck nipples open to atmosphere and go for a drive. It may take a little to burn off residual oil. If you still have smoking, it could be the turbos.

Since you ran the turbos dry most likely on the old engine that's a very good possibility that they are not happy. Turbo bearings get eaten up FAST with no oil.

Dale
Reply
Old Jul 10, 2020 | 01:16 PM
  #558  
Narfle's Avatar
Rx7 Wagon
Tenured Member: 20 Years
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (16)
 
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 6,978
Likes: 888
From: California
Yes, I thought you had completely disconnected the PCV system. Do you still have hose connected from the oil filler neck to the intake manifold?
Reply
Old Jul 10, 2020 | 04:52 PM
  #559  
MuRCieLaGo's Avatar
Thread Starter
Forever blown!
Tenured Member 15 Years
iTrader: (14)
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,370
Likes: 13
From: Trois-Rivieres (QC)
Originally Posted by DaleClark
You have to have a PCV valve between the upper intake manifold and the oil neck if that hose is attached. If you have a straight hose, that's a problem.

Stock, you have the PCV from the left-pointing oil nipple to the UIM and a hose going from the down-pointing nipple to the primary turbo inlet, which is just filtered atmospheric pressure air. 95 Mazda removed the PCV and capped those 2 nipples, it's not really necessary.

For testing you may want to cap the UIM nipple and have both oil neck nipples open to atmosphere and go for a drive. It may take a little to burn off residual oil. If you still have smoking, it could be the turbos.

Since you ran the turbos dry most likely on the old engine that's a very good possibility that they are not happy. Turbo bearings get eaten up FAST with no oil.

Dale
Originally Posted by Narfle
Yes, I thought you had completely disconnected the PCV system. Do you still have hose connected from the oil filler neck to the intake manifold?
Top nipple at the oil filler neck is capped, bottom nipple is open to atmosphere. No connection between filler neck and manifold! So I understand that everything is okay...
Reply
Old Jul 10, 2020 | 06:04 PM
  #560  
Narfle's Avatar
Rx7 Wagon
Tenured Member: 20 Years
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (16)
 
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 6,978
Likes: 888
From: California
I think you're good on that. That should mean there's no easy way for crank case oil to enter the intake.
Reply
Old Jul 11, 2020 | 10:18 AM
  #561  
Rotary Alkymist's Avatar
My mom lets me redline
Tenured Member: 10 Years
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 600
Likes: 132
From: Cornwall, ON
I think your misunderstanding the function of the pcv valve. You just rebuilt your engine. You may have excessive blow by. Capping the filler neck will only make the problem worse.

As you boost your creating positive pressure in the crankcase. You could be creating so much that you indeed have to SUCK it out with the vacuum.

In that short lived timeframe, as you are boosting, your oil return from your turbo CANNOT FLOW because of the pressure in the crankcase, forcing it out of the turbo and into your exhaust. The oil will follow the path of least resistance.

I would reintroduce the pcv valve, which will take literally 2 minutes and see if it fixes your issue.

Last edited by Rotary Alkymist; Jul 11, 2020 at 10:21 AM.
Reply
Old Jul 11, 2020 | 12:10 PM
  #562  
Bimmer_Tyler's Avatar
Full Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 85
Likes: 3
From: Reno, nv
He still has the bottom nipple open so it’s venting pressure and doesn’t have a line from neck to UIM, just for my knowledge where is the crankcase pressure coming from??
Reply
Old Jul 13, 2020 | 01:19 PM
  #563  
MuRCieLaGo's Avatar
Thread Starter
Forever blown!
Tenured Member 15 Years
iTrader: (14)
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,370
Likes: 13
From: Trois-Rivieres (QC)
Alright,

So I installed the PCV valve, and no change whatsoever. It definitely seems to smoke as soon as the turbo starts spinning.

I took another short 1 mile ride yesterday, damn I want that car to be running this year.

I am still waiting on a seal to fix that turbo, to be continued!
Reply
Old Aug 15, 2020 | 05:00 PM
  #564  
MuRCieLaGo's Avatar
Thread Starter
Forever blown!
Tenured Member 15 Years
iTrader: (14)
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,370
Likes: 13
From: Trois-Rivieres (QC)
Update:

Turbo has to be changed, I bent the shaft while trying to change the seal. No big deal, it was from eBay, installed in 2010. Still lasted longer than I expected. It was a T04B 1.15 A/R hot side and 0.60 A/R cold side (suited my student budget). I bought another cheap turbo from eBay but some fitments are required (didn't come with V-band flange) so I decided that was enough with the cheap stuff.
.
I'm not a student anymore, so I can afford a better turbo.

I only need the turbo itself, with the T4 flange that will fit my actual manifold.

I am looking for reliability and at least 300whp.

What do you guys recommend?

Note: The idea of buying another cheap turbo was to make sure that if my engine blows (fresh rebuild), it could only break a cheap turbo, not an expensive one. What do you think?

Last edited by MuRCieLaGo; Aug 15, 2020 at 05:29 PM.
Reply
Old Aug 15, 2020 | 05:43 PM
  #565  
TwinCharged RX7's Avatar
Built Not Bought
Tenured Member: 15 Years
Top Answer: 1
iTrader: (14)
 
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 4,389
Likes: 964
From: Stamford, CT
Borg Warner SXE series. Cheap, reliable, just get one on the smaller size. Maybe the smallest S300 they make, will give you some leeway if you want to increase boost later on
Reply
Old Aug 15, 2020 | 05:44 PM
  #566  
TwinCharged RX7's Avatar
Built Not Bought
Tenured Member: 15 Years
Top Answer: 1
iTrader: (14)
 
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 4,389
Likes: 964
From: Stamford, CT
There is also a used Aspec 500R for sale in the classified. Used to be one of the bees knees turbos a few years back. I think based on GT35series turbo if I remember correctly. May be a good option for you.
Reply
Old Aug 15, 2020 | 09:06 PM
  #567  
MuRCieLaGo's Avatar
Thread Starter
Forever blown!
Tenured Member 15 Years
iTrader: (14)
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,370
Likes: 13
From: Trois-Rivieres (QC)
Originally Posted by TwinCharged RX7
There is also a used Aspec 500R for sale in the classified. Used to be one of the bees knees turbos a few years back. I think based on GT35series turbo if I remember correctly. May be a good option for you.
I have seen the A-Spec 500R for sale. It seems to be suitable for people looking for 450-500 whp. I don't need that power, do you think I could get max 350 whp by lowering the boost? Would I need to change some more stuff in my setup (injectors, for example)? I'm OK to get the car tuned.

And does it happen often that people blow their turbo when their engine blows?

Last edited by MuRCieLaGo; Aug 16, 2020 at 10:51 AM.
Reply
Old Aug 16, 2020 | 12:44 PM
  #568  
TwinCharged RX7's Avatar
Built Not Bought
Tenured Member: 15 Years
Top Answer: 1
iTrader: (14)
 
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 4,389
Likes: 964
From: Stamford, CT
Really depends how you blow the engine. If apex seals shoot through it then the turbine blades can really take a hit. Or if you piling issues in the engine then the bearings of the turbo can be impacted that way.

Regarding the 500R, it looks like a decent deal. If you run it at 10-12 psi you won't be making more than 400. Your other supporting systems would need to be upgraded if they can handle the fueling needs.

Or if you are really set on 350 as a max, get a small SXE Borg Warner or the EFR 7670 if in your budget. There are a lot of other options that don't break the bank at that range and can usually be found used as people upgrade. Which is why I recommend snagging the 500r so you can turn it up if you eventually decide to.
Reply
Old Aug 16, 2020 | 07:17 PM
  #569  
GoodfellaFD3S's Avatar
Original Gangster/Rotary!
Veteran: Army
Tenured Member: 25 Years
Liked
Loved
iTrader: (213)
 
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 30,804
Likes: 646
From: FL-->NJ/NYC again!
500R is basically a GT35R turbo with a larger T04R/Z sized compressor wheel..... 67mm inducer 84mm exducer from memory.

Great turbo, overkill for only 300 rwhp.
Reply
Old Aug 17, 2020 | 03:42 PM
  #570  
MuRCieLaGo's Avatar
Thread Starter
Forever blown!
Tenured Member 15 Years
iTrader: (14)
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,370
Likes: 13
From: Trois-Rivieres (QC)
Originally Posted by TwinCharged RX7
Really depends how you blow the engine. If apex seals shoot through it then the turbine blades can really take a hit. Or if you piling issues in the engine then the bearings of the turbo can be impacted that way.

Regarding the 500R, it looks like a decent deal. If you run it at 10-12 psi you won't be making more than 400. Your other supporting systems would need to be upgraded if they can handle the fueling needs.

Or if you are really set on 350 as a max, get a small SXE Borg Warner or the EFR 7670 if in your budget. There are a lot of other options that don't break the bank at that range and can usually be found used as people upgrade. Which is why I recommend snagging the 500r so you can turn it up if you eventually decide to.
I will not want to go more than 350 whp, ever. I already own faster cars and I will buy more in a near future. I really don't like the idea of upgrading the supporting systems.

Originally Posted by GoodfellaFD3S
500R is basically a GT35R turbo with a larger T04R/Z sized compressor wheel..... 67mm inducer 84mm exducer from memory.

Great turbo, overkill for only 300 rwhp.
That is what I figured! So what else? I don't know much about BorgWarner series... I know GoodfellaFD3S is a forum superstar and I was hoping for an advice.
Reply
Old Aug 19, 2020 | 09:20 PM
  #571  
MuRCieLaGo's Avatar
Thread Starter
Forever blown!
Tenured Member 15 Years
iTrader: (14)
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,370
Likes: 13
From: Trois-Rivieres (QC)
I know I'm asking you guys a lot... What other T4 turbos would you recommend for 300-350 whp?
Reply
Old Aug 19, 2020 | 10:49 PM
  #572  
TwinCharged RX7's Avatar
Built Not Bought
Tenured Member: 15 Years
Top Answer: 1
iTrader: (14)
 
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 4,389
Likes: 964
From: Stamford, CT
Just do some searching. Gt35 is fine, or go the next step smaller if you want.

If it were me I'd try out the S200sx-e by Borg Warner. Cheap compared to the EFR line, but you are going small enough to where it will spool fine anyways. There is an option for a T4 housing, and several A/R sizes available. I'd go for something between .8 and 1.0. Less than $1000 shipped brand new if you shop around.
Reply
Old Apr 18, 2021 | 11:52 AM
  #573  
MuRCieLaGo's Avatar
Thread Starter
Forever blown!
Tenured Member 15 Years
iTrader: (14)
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,370
Likes: 13
From: Trois-Rivieres (QC)
Originally Posted by TwinCharged RX7
Just do some searching. Gt35 is fine, or go the next step smaller if you want.

If it were me I'd try out the S200sx-e by Borg Warner. Cheap compared to the EFR line, but you are going small enough to where it will spool fine anyways. There is an option for a T4 housing, and several A/R sizes available. I'd go for something between .8 and 1.0. Less than $1000 shipped brand new if you shop around.
8 months later...

Sorry guys, I had a lot of studies over the winter, had to put that project on standby.

Just a quick refresh: I'm actually shopping for a T4 turbo.

And as TwinCharged RX7 mentioned, I found out that the new S200SX 1.22 A/R is fairly cheap: $800 + shipping.

But I also found the new T04E 0.96 A/R by BNR: $1,000 + shipping. I know BNR is a pretty good brand when it comes to rotaries.

There's also a "cheap" CXRacing T76 1.15 A/R which looks very similar to the T04B I had before ($416 + shipping)...

I get lost very easily when searching for infos, shopping for turbos...

I would like to get something equal or more powerful than the T04B 1.15 A/R @ 13 psi that I was using on the car. As I already said, 300whp+ is a must.

Last edited by MuRCieLaGo; Apr 18, 2021 at 12:04 PM.
Reply
Old Apr 18, 2021 | 12:04 PM
  #574  
Red94fd's Avatar
Rotary Enthusiast
iTrader: (5)
 
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 814
Likes: 96
From: Florida
I had 362sxe and you would not be dissapointed with borg sxe line. The 200sxe will fit your need as TwinCharged Rx7 said,.
i am glad you are back to it..
Reply
Old Apr 20, 2021 | 04:58 PM
  #575  
MuRCieLaGo's Avatar
Thread Starter
Forever blown!
Tenured Member 15 Years
iTrader: (14)
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,370
Likes: 13
From: Trois-Rivieres (QC)
I am now convinced, I'm gonna go with Borgwarner.

However, lots of people are going with the S300SX-E series.

For what it's worth, this is what I'm planning to buy: S366SX-E 1.00 T4 Twin Scroll.

The S362SX-E is exactly $4.12 cheaper via Turblown (vendor on this forum).

What do you guys think?
Reply



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:19 AM.