Trouble getting the car started after rebuild
#402
RX-7 Bad Ass
iTrader: (55)
Can you get a picture of the sensor check screen with the engine not running?
Also what does the boost/vacuum say on the commander with the car running?
Dale
Also what does the boost/vacuum say on the commander with the car running?
Dale
#403
Sensors screen: car wasn't running, took it just before starting the car.
I understand vacuum is very low, but could it be because of the rich mixture, preventing the engine from building a decent compression?
OR,
Could it be because of the (known) exhaust leak between turbo and wastegate?
Last edited by MuRCieLaGo; 05-09-20 at 06:55 PM.
#404
Full Member
iTrader: (1)
Correct me if I’m wrong guys but -251 on the map sensor OFF is fairly out of wack right? Maybe the map sensor needs to be Calibrated? I know I had to do the scaling in the Datalogit to correct it before tune
*EDIT- I’m dumb I see rpm right above it*
*EDIT- I’m dumb I see rpm right above it*
Last edited by Bimmer_Tyler; 05-09-20 at 08:49 PM.
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MuRCieLaGo (05-09-20)
#405
BUT. I've had a failed map sensor before, and honestly, maybe it feels like it. We all know what happens when you unplug the map sensor hose (it runs very rich, and that's also what is happening now). I'm thinking about buying an used one locally.
#409
I never really took pictures of the porting, but here is an example.
I would like to add that I've got full confidence into that rotary shop, they've got a pretty much undented reputation.
Last edited by MuRCieLaGo; 05-09-20 at 11:18 PM.
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EUROX (05-10-20)
#411
RX-7 Bad Ass
iTrader: (55)
VTA1 and 2 are out of wack because the throttle is manually opened with the throttle stop screw.
Murci, you may want to close the throttle and see what VTA1 and 2 read to rule out a misadjusted TPS.
Dale
Murci, you may want to close the throttle and see what VTA1 and 2 read to rule out a misadjusted TPS.
Dale
#412
RX-7 Bad Ass
iTrader: (55)
AHA!
We got something going on with the MAP sensor.
I just turned my car on, stock map sensor with stock map sensor calibration. It's reading -25mmHg - yours is reading .23 kg/cm2 - that's showing with the car off about 3psi of boost!
Do you have a stock MAP sensor? Go to the PIM volt screen and make sure it's set to Normal, option1.
Also my sensor check screen shows 2.65v for PIM which is really close to yours - I'm damn near sea level elevation BTW.
Dale
We got something going on with the MAP sensor.
I just turned my car on, stock map sensor with stock map sensor calibration. It's reading -25mmHg - yours is reading .23 kg/cm2 - that's showing with the car off about 3psi of boost!
Do you have a stock MAP sensor? Go to the PIM volt screen and make sure it's set to Normal, option1.
Also my sensor check screen shows 2.65v for PIM which is really close to yours - I'm damn near sea level elevation BTW.
Dale
#414
RX-7 Bad Ass
iTrader: (55)
My guess is the PFC is configured for an aftermarket MAP sensor like a 3-bar. Yeah, if it's that far off with the engine off (atmospheric pressure on the sensor) it will be off all over the place.
MAP sensor is one of the primary inputs on the ECU, if it's that far off the car is going to run very poorly.
Dale
MAP sensor is one of the primary inputs on the ECU, if it's that far off the car is going to run very poorly.
Dale
#415
AHA!
We got something going on with the MAP sensor.
I just turned my car on, stock map sensor with stock map sensor calibration. It's reading -25mmHg - yours is reading .23 kg/cm2 - that's showing with the car off about 3psi of boost!
Do you have a stock MAP sensor? Go to the PIM volt screen and make sure it's set to Normal, option1.
Also my sensor check screen shows 2.65v for PIM which is really close to yours - I'm damn near sea level elevation BTW.
Dale
We got something going on with the MAP sensor.
I just turned my car on, stock map sensor with stock map sensor calibration. It's reading -25mmHg - yours is reading .23 kg/cm2 - that's showing with the car off about 3psi of boost!
Do you have a stock MAP sensor? Go to the PIM volt screen and make sure it's set to Normal, option1.
Also my sensor check screen shows 2.65v for PIM which is really close to yours - I'm damn near sea level elevation BTW.
Dale
Car started, ran much better. I couldn't hear the street port idle! I even managed to get a steady idle of 930-1,010 RPM.
At this point, I really thought it was time for a road test... not yet.
I gave the engine some gas (went up to 4,000 RPM)... Then the idle got like before. Had to screw the idle bolt up to 1,600 RPM to get it steady. I stopped the engine, restarted it... Still no luck.
#416
RX-7 Bad Ass
iTrader: (55)
Good! Well that's one problem down!
The -35mm hG when off is correct, that's what it should be showing. That's most likely why the car is running so rich.
Didn't you reset the PFC to defaults at some point? I'm baffled as to why the MAP sensor was on the wrong setting, resetting it to defaults should have wiped that setting out.
Dale
The -35mm hG when off is correct, that's what it should be showing. That's most likely why the car is running so rich.
Didn't you reset the PFC to defaults at some point? I'm baffled as to why the MAP sensor was on the wrong setting, resetting it to defaults should have wiped that setting out.
Dale
#417
Good! Well that's one problem down!
The -35mm hG when off is correct, that's what it should be showing. That's most likely why the car is running so rich.
Didn't you reset the PFC to defaults at some point? I'm baffled as to why the MAP sensor was on the wrong setting, resetting it to defaults should have wiped that setting out.
Dale
The -35mm hG when off is correct, that's what it should be showing. That's most likely why the car is running so rich.
Didn't you reset the PFC to defaults at some point? I'm baffled as to why the MAP sensor was on the wrong setting, resetting it to defaults should have wiped that setting out.
Dale
I did another reset today. I turned off O2 feedback. MAP sensor's default setting is "Normal" so I kept it there.
Tonight, I started it again. Steady idle at 1,300 RPM. I decided it was time to go for a test drive... Then the bouncing idle came back all by itself (I wasn't touching anything).
It seems like the bouncing idle happens when the engine reaches its operating temperature... I've got to fix that before going for a test drive. The vacuum is much better now, -400 mmHg/-16 inHg, that's a relief!
#418
Lousy Crew Chief
iTrader: (10)
You’ve been trying forever to get this thing to run but you’ve probably never even had the PFC learn idle yet. Takes like 25 min for it to learn idle. Look up PFC idle learn on here and you’ll find some threads about it. IIRC it’s like run it 10 min, 10 min with rear defroster on, and 10 min with AC on or something to that tune. The fact that you’ve been playing around with the wrong throttle plates doesn’t help. That screw you adjust shouldn’t ever be fussed with really. You adjust idle speed using the air bleed screw at the bottom of the throttle body. Initial setting of the PFC, it should be 3/8 to 1/2 turn from closed IIRC. As for other idle related things, I imagine you don’t have an air pump anymore, which would effect idle. Do you still have the ISC? A tune will greatly help your idle after you do the idle learn procedure.
Matt
Matt
#419
Full Member
iTrader: (2)
The screw you are playing with is the throttle adjusting screw and should be 1/4 turn after touching the lever. You should use the air adjustment screw under the throttle body for adjusting idle. I have that screw 1.5 counter clock way out. Do you still have idle air control valve?
#420
RX-7 Bad Ass
iTrader: (55)
Nice! First drive, woo hoo!
I agree, you will have to do the idle learn procedure. Also if the ISC is dirty it can create a bouncing idle as well.
The idle learn procedure is well documented, read up on it. I like to do it with the car warmed up. Get it warm, then do a full PFC reset and restart the car and start the process.
Dale
I agree, you will have to do the idle learn procedure. Also if the ISC is dirty it can create a bouncing idle as well.
The idle learn procedure is well documented, read up on it. I like to do it with the car warmed up. Get it warm, then do a full PFC reset and restart the car and start the process.
Dale
#421
You’ve been trying forever to get this thing to run but you’ve probably never even had the PFC learn idle yet. Takes like 25 min for it to learn idle. Look up PFC idle learn on here and you’ll find some threads about it. IIRC it’s like run it 10 min, 10 min with rear defroster on, and 10 min with AC on or something to that tune. The fact that you’ve been playing around with the wrong throttle plates doesn’t help. That screw you adjust shouldn’t ever be fussed with really. You adjust idle speed using the air bleed screw at the bottom of the throttle body. Initial setting of the PFC, it should be 3/8 to 1/2 turn from closed IIRC. As for other idle related things, I imagine you don’t have an air pump anymore, which would effect idle. Do you still have the ISC? A tune will greatly help your idle after you do the idle learn procedure.
Matt
Matt
Your procedure is bang on, that's the way to do it. Here is what I did:
- Brought the car up to temperature. Bouncing idle only started when it was warm, again (at 70°C (158°F) on the Commander).
- Turned the engine off. Adjusted the screw to get VTA1 and VTA2 within normal specs.
- Unplugged the battery, pumped the brake pedal for a few seconds.
- Plugged the battery back.
- Started the engine, can't idle (I had to tighten the screw and to go over normal VTA1 and VTA2 specs. I went as close to normal specs as I could).
- Started the engine, instant bouncing idle. Waited for 11 minutes, no change whatsoever. That is a where I took the following video.
- Tightened idle screw to get constant idle of 1,900 RPM (can't get it steady under that).
- Turned the engine off.
- Unplugged the battery, pumped the brake pedal for a few seconds.
- Plugged the battery back.
- Started the engine, instant steady idle of 1,900 RPM (can't get it steady under that).
The screw you are playing with is the throttle adjusting screw and should be 1/4 turn after touching the lever. You should use the air adjustment screw under the throttle body for adjusting idle. I have that screw 1.5 counter clock way out. Do you still have idle air control valve?
Nice! First drive, woo hoo!
I agree, you will have to do the idle learn procedure. Also if the ISC is dirty it can create a bouncing idle as well.
The idle learn procedure is well documented, read up on it. I like to do it with the car warmed up. Get it warm, then do a full PFC reset and restart the car and start the process.
Dale
I agree, you will have to do the idle learn procedure. Also if the ISC is dirty it can create a bouncing idle as well.
The idle learn procedure is well documented, read up on it. I like to do it with the car warmed up. Get it warm, then do a full PFC reset and restart the car and start the process.
Dale
Dirty ISC (IAC)? Wait, what? I'm assuming that the UIM was sucking some oil from the filler neck, so for sure everything got dirty in there... But I like the idea. As I said before, that IAC used to make some weird noise sometimes (electrical noise), but now it's always quiet. I'll search!
EDIT: I removed the IAC. It is dirty, but working fine.
Last edited by MuRCieLaGo; 05-13-20 at 09:29 PM.
#424
RX-7 Bad Ass
iTrader: (55)
The ISC can move and look OK but be dirty inside. Spray the inside of the ISC with carb or brake cleaner and get it clean - you will probably get black crud coming out. Once clean, spray some WD-40 in there and use 2 wires to hook the 2 terminals to 12v and ground and click it open and closed a few times.
Also that gasket is the old paper gasket, the new version is a metal gasket. Probably not a leak but something to know about.
There's also the idle adjust screw below the entrance to the throttle body. With the PFC you typically screw it all the way in and then back out a half turn.
Dale
Also that gasket is the old paper gasket, the new version is a metal gasket. Probably not a leak but something to know about.
There's also the idle adjust screw below the entrance to the throttle body. With the PFC you typically screw it all the way in and then back out a half turn.
Dale
#425
Senior Member
iTrader: (7)
I had the bouncing idle on my old street ported motor when it got above 70*C. It happened out of nowhere. Parked it one night and then had the bouncing idle the next morning. I spent months tracking it down but did not find anything wrong. No vacuum leaks or anything like that.
What I found helped was a combination of adjusting the various throttle body screws (I think there are three) and lightening the electrical load. One of my radiator fans was stuck/fried and when I unplugged it, it helped settle the bouncing idle a lot. It didn't 100% cure it but I was able to resolve the rest by adjusting the various screws on the throttle body. After that, I was able to comfortably idle around 900rpm.
What I found helped was a combination of adjusting the various throttle body screws (I think there are three) and lightening the electrical load. One of my radiator fans was stuck/fried and when I unplugged it, it helped settle the bouncing idle a lot. It didn't 100% cure it but I was able to resolve the rest by adjusting the various screws on the throttle body. After that, I was able to comfortably idle around 900rpm.