mcfly4001

ok, im about to the end of the line...

turbo timer, gutted down pipe, apex BOV, thats it on the upgrades. engine has 14000 miles. car has 63000.

car got to a point where it would not crank, and i could smell gas.

my car has had so many problems its crazy, i tore it all the way down to the engine block, and this is what i have done trying to fix the problem:

-complete hose job
-replaced damaged solenoid vavles
-cleaned out sut filled ACV
-installed 6 new grounds in the engine bay, one at the ecu
-replaced all check valves
-purchased two new primary injectors
-replaced orings and all insulators and diffusers
-checked fuel pressure, regulated and unregulated, both were good
-changed oil
-changed fuel filter
-changed plugs
-changed wires
-test coil packs, test was good
-rear main seal
-repaired many faulty wires at ecu and in engine bay
-new battery
-new battery terminals

thats about it, i think

got it all put back together last night, after about 5 attempts to crank the car, it fired up, but after it warmed up, it started sputtering around, and had terrible throttle control, and i cut the car off, and it would not crank.

pulled the new plugs today, they have only been in the car for about 5 min, covered in black crap, but wet with gas, cleaned them, and physically tested for spark fire, had a nice blue spark.

car still will not crank, turns over fine, but no crank, not flooded, did the deflooding, nothing came out.

no codes, i did disconnect the knock sensor, so see if the ecu would pull a code, and it did, so it seems to be working right, and i have reset the computer several times,

ANY IDEAS?

thanks to all, i have not done a compression test, bc of the low milleage on the car, and it has not been driven hard, im thinking something electrical, help!

DamonB

If you can ever pull the plugs and decribe them as "wet", then the car is flooding. Whether from too much gas or not enough spark you'll have to figure out.

When the car was running you said "but after it warmed up, it started sputtering around, and had terrible throttle control". What do you mean by that? Sounds like the motor is loading up with too much gas.

Bryan_RX-7

It might be the ignighter, it could be one of those problems that happens when it gets warm and it starts to freek out. I'm not saying thats what it is but its might be a good place to look.

skunks

so how did you plug them in and check for spark? you should have gotten a wire and put one end to ground and wrapped the other end around the spark plug and had someone crank her up. BTW: you checking all 4 sparkplugs/wire right???

also, how are you testing for fuel? you should have pulled the fuel line closes to the front of the car near the oilfilter and jump the fuel pump to see if fuel is shooting out. just jumping the fuel pump and hearing it whorl around is not good enuf, you gotta make sure fuel is actually getting to your injectors. perhaps its your injectors? compression test is a good idea, how are you doing this btw, are you towing her to a dealer? personnaly i would try a regular compression testor first, much cheaper and damn near free if you already have one
do you still have the stock ecu??? perhpas you should try to plug that in and see if it will start with that.

Oh yeah, check to see if all the relays and fuses are good.

(coppied from another thread that i answered)

Jonesboro

Check the vacuum tube going to your MAP sensor, it could be disconnected and would have the symptoms you are describing.

jr

Bad MAP sensor? Bad ECU?

mcfly4001

damonb, i agree with what you said about the plugs being wet.

bryan rx7, does the igniter respond/funtion different after warmup?

skunks, i checked my plugs for fire, by, getting under the car, and taking them out of the block, and plugging the into the spark plug wire, and turning the ignition, and the spark jumped from the plug to the engine block, i did if for each plug. checked the fuel pressure with my fuel pressure checker, and i hooked it all up properly, fuel pressure good. stock ecu, i have two, when i change them out, my problem is uneffected.

jonesboro, the map sensor vac. hose it properly hooked up to the UIM.

jr, i have two ecus, like i said earlier, both give the car the same symptoms, so not that i dont think, but it could be the MAP sensor.

well after three days of trying to get the car cranked, i took out the plugs and deflooded the car, again, cleaned the plugs of, than bang! fired up, i let it warm up, took it for a spin, and as the engine got warmer, car started cutting out really bad between 2600-3000 rpms, i mean bad, but good idle, and i had lots of power while the car was not fully warm, but the problem got worse as the car ran longer. and when i cut the car off, it would not crank back.

here is my theory, i think i have a lack of fire, due to a bad coil pack (s), bc:

i have new plugs, and wires.

the car starts decently after the deflooding procedure, and cleaning the plugs, but will not start after car gets hot. i think, if i remember right, that a car will start and run better if it has a failing plug wire, or coil pack, or distributor cap, when the car is cold, and gets worse as it warms up. i think that is what is happening here.

here are the results from my test on my coil packs:

for those who have manuals, section G if you dont know:

A-B (T1) .2 (T2) .9
A-T (T1) infinity (T2) infinity

Leading Coil Pack
A-B .6
L1-L2 13.89

im a little worried about my T2; A-B test result. its a .9 and the manual calls for it to be 1 ohm of resistance or lower, its close, could this be causing my no crank problem? i imagine that after warm up that it could be going over 1 ohm of resistance.

so i figure that if i am not getting good fire off the T2 coil pack, that the car will crank sometimes when only the primary injectors are firing, but when the secondaries come on line at (2500-3000 rpms), all the fuel can not be burnt, causing my lag, backfires, and stumbling.

what do yall think?

THANKS A MILLION IN ADVANCE to all that will reply, and to all those who have already helped, i will not forget all this help.

paul

Zyon13B

How's the coolant level?

mcfly4001

coolant level is pretty good i imagine, how come?

Zyon13B

My engine went into a "safe" mode one time like yours when I got an air bubble in the cooling system. But I think it can go in that mode for other reasons too. But if your definitly flooding it then I don't know besides what these guys said. It doesn't hurt to check though.

mcfly4001

oh i see, thanks for you input i will check into that, anyone else?

volley1

I don't know jack squat about solving your problem, but I do remember reading a post with about the same symptoms and it was a bad map sensor. Just a thought. Good luck.

93blackrx

the seals that seal the injectors into the rails. it is VERY easy to pinch one when putting new injectors into the rails. its happened to me before, you have to be extremely careful. I use Vaseline to help seal and seat them. you need to unbolt your rails from the car, pull them up and away from the block. then turn the key to the on position to run the pump. go and take a look at your rails and see if there is any fuel coming from the bottom of the injectors. there will probably be a HUGE amount leaking from there.

I know it sounds like a lot of work but I had the same symptoms and that's what my problem was. if you have any other questions feel free to drop me a line.

Matt

mcfly4001

hey volley, thanks for the map sensor suggestion, i will look into testing that.

93blackrx, i agree with you, those orings are tough to get back into the fuel rail without some lubrication of some sort, i just used motor oil, and they seated properly, that is valuble information though, so i dont think that is my problem, but could have easily been, so if its not gas, im thinking lack off spark.

has anyone had much experience with failing coil packs and the symptoms of bad packs? thanks everyone, keep the suggestions coming!

paul

cavellm

Could be a leaky o-ring for one or more of your injectors.

Flooding the car and once it gets warm and the seal gets worse more and more gas gets thrown into the engine.

Cihuuy

wat do you mean by "the engine cutting out at 2600-3000?? is it hesitation or does not want to go any faster??

Did you adjust your TPS yet??

ronarndt

Is your voltage from the alternator, with car running and fully warmed up, over 12.5 volts? Fuel injectors will not operate properly if voltage is low. Alternators with hairline cracks in the stator or rotor short out when the alternator warms up. If the alternator is not working properly, it may affect your ignitors also, since they will be only running on battery voltage. Does the starter turn the engine over after it gets hot and starts malfunctioning, or do you need to jump start it, or charge the battery back up? My $0.2
Ron A.

wanklin

iTrader: (2)

You may want to go back and ohm out your ECU harness. You mentioned that you had to do some repair work to the wiring.. maybe something got crossed up or has a bad connection. I had a buddy with a truck that had the same symptoms and it turned out to be the ECU. The MAP sensor needs to be verified as well. Good luck.
-Rob

mcfly4001

cavellm, i agree with what u say, but i just put new orings in, and im almost positive that they are not leaking.

cihuuy, its both, a hesitation and cut out, if i rev slowly, it will not go past about 2600 to 3500 rpms, it will hold in that range, or even decrease power if i give it more gas, and if i rev it fast, it will usually rev just fine all the way to red line if i take it there, this is with no load, just parked in neutral, funny thing is, it does it worse when i push in the clutch.

ronarndt, i will check the alternator.

well new discovery today, sort of, after the car cranked yesterday, i shut it off, and it would not crank back while it was hot, so i went out and tried again this morning, it was cold of course, no crank, didnt even start to crank, turned over fine, battery is charged over 12 volts. so i cleaned my new plugs off, and did the deflooding procedure, and no gas whatsoever came out. i put the plugs back in, and on the first attempt to crank the car, it tried to fire up, but would not, heres another strange thing; if i just held the key in the start position and continued to tried to crank the car, for like 10 seconds, it would not even try to crank, but if i just turned the key over for like 2 seconds, and let off and tried again, it cranked. is my starter taking to much power from my the battery to give enough power to the coils to fire up the engine, due to a weak coil? did that make any sense?!

well the i drove the car around again, symptoms came back, got worse as i drove more, and as the car warmed up, cut the car off, would not crank back!!

so, i will attempt to adjust TPS, check alt. output, and test MAP sensor, but i have been through all this, but i will check again, im so confused here,

thanks everyone, so much,

paul

mcfly4001

ok, adjusted the TPS, its perfect.

checked alt. output: 13.89, its good.

tested MAP sensor voltages, good.

ok, i once again took the plugs out, and cleaned them, deflooded the car, and it finally cranked, (its getting more difficult to crank), it ran terrible, the worse yet, misfiring and breaking up all through the rpm range, good idle though. so i started wiggling wires around the coil packs, i took the coil harness and moved it around, the car just died.

i took the plugs out again today, and the two trailing were black with sut on them and wet, the two leading where perfectly clean, and dry. the car will not even try to start now.

i have read these cars will run with just the leading plugs getting fire, is that true? cause i think that my leading are the only ones getting fire. i retested my leading coil pack:

Leading Coil Pack
A-B .6
L1-L2 12.84

the continuity is getting pretty low on the L1-L2 test, has anyone had any personal experience on coil packs? i know mine are within the manuals specs., but i would rather have a personal opinion.

i have ordered a new coil harness from ray and malloy, but it will be next wednesday before it gets in, so any insight on the coil packs and anything else would be great!

thanks, paul

skunks

im having trouble following what you mean by "crank/cranking" and "turned over". Does the starter turn the engine? does your engine start/idle? what battery are you using, perhaps you can crank the engine while jumping it with another car. im not 100% sure on how you check the coilpack but it could be the problem, try finding a buddy near by with another working fd, that way you can easily take off the uim, pull the coilpack/ignitor and everything else you can pull off and slap it on to your car to check it out (its much cheaper then buying more and more parts, it will nickel and dime you to death!).

you might wanna check how much fuel is actually flowing thru the injectors as well, take off the injectors while they are still on the injector rail and jump fuel pump, then ground injectors and have it spray in to a cup, there should be a picture howto in the service manual.

P.S. what kinda exhaust system do you got again? i know you got a gutted dp but what about the cat and catback?
Also, are you sure you fixed all the wires in the engine bay, you mentioned in yoru first post that -repaired many faulty wires at ecu and in engine bay. what wires were they?

Rx7aholic

iTrader: (22)

Do u have the air pump still on the car? Check to see if the air pump clutch in engage after start up? Also where exactly on the engine harness u repair? Make sure u did not break the crank sensor wires insulation or some other wire is touching the sensor wire? Also u can check the soleniod right next to the oil cap cover. Also some the guys mention your injectors could be your problem u know it's working but what u don't is how is it flowing into the engine and the only way to tell that is to take it out and send them to an Injector shop who can check them for flow rate. Also is the black smoke coming out form your exhaust? Another thing to check is your o2 sensor.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

I would start with the ignitor. I'm not sure how you would check it, but the manual may have a procedure for it. As with what skunks said, if there is a working FD in your area it would be nice to try and swap out their ignitor for a test.

After that, check this thread:

https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...hreadid=177575

It may offer some help.

crazyrx7

When the car is started does it smoke a lot? If it does what color is the smoke? You said that when it warms up it starts to sputter; when it does this does the check engine light come on? It sounds like the problem I had and it was the oil metering pump. It was stuck on full open when you start the car to inject oil and then when the car is warmed up then it doesn't allow that much oil in. The car will then go into limp mode and you can't rev it past 2500 rpm without it sputtering really bad. Just something you can look in to. I might get flamed for my answer but at least you can look into that issue.

R.K.

mcfly4001

skunks, the starter turns the engine fine, the engine has only started a few times, and kept an idle, over the last week, its like its not getting enough gas or fire, the starter just turns the engine, and 1 out of 20 times it will get the motor running, same no matter if im using the cars own battery power or jumping it off. i have all factory stuff, just a gutted dp,

rxaholic, im pretty sure the ecu harness is repaired fine, but it is old and brittle looking, plus there is no black smoke, just sut on my trailing plugs when i pull them out.

mahjik, i live in north GA, i have no idea of anyone that has an rx7 that would be so gracious.

crazyrx7, smokes on start up, while idling until normal warm up temp. but thats normal i think, the check engine light does flicker when it starts sputtering just like you said, it acts like its in some kind of limp mode, but no codes are stored, and when i let it reach idle again, the CEL goes off, tell me more,

thanks everyone, i wish i did have some other rx7 close by, man that would make this a lot easier, for example, the leading coil pack, the manual says to check resistance between the two holes where the plug wires go in, and if the resistance is between 9-16 ohms, its ok, but a member on here, said if its under 13 ohms, its bad, and mine is, 12.84, but i dont know who to trust, i mean thats another 150 bucks i would have to spend, and this car has cost me a lot already, im just tired of guessing, and when i go by the manual, people tell me dont, which im tottaly glad for the responses, just a bit confused, and if i had 5 grand to throw into this car, i would have already mastered it, and just replaced all the parts, but anyway, sorry for the ramblings,

thanks, really,

paul