The sway bar story Part 1
06-21-07, 07:10 PM
#126
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An UPDATE
I sent this letter
Jim Tanner Osborne Milton Jr
Dear Sir, March 12, 2007
I am returning the Racing Beat sway bars. I would like a full refund.
At your suggestion I did purchase a set of Mazdaspeed sway bars. I have noted that there is indeed a fitment issue with the rear Racing Beat sway bar as compared with the Mazdaspeed sway bar (which has none). It is also noted that the rear Racing Beat sway bar is without temper and lends itself to bending under normal driving conditions while the Mazda speed is tempered. This lack of temper with the Racing Beat sway bar leads to instability while driving my car. The car is unsafe with the rear bar installed.
I have compared the front RB sway bar with the Mazdaspeed and have no reason to conclude that it suffers from the same issues as the rear Racing Beat sway bar. However given the history of the rear I do not want to bet my life on it and therefore I am returning it also.
A lot of time (it took me about 6 months to order, receive and compare the Mazdaspeed sway bars to the Racing Beat sway bars), money and effort were necessary to check out your theories. I have concluded the following.
1) Your statement that I had to have wrecked my car to bend the Racing Beat rear sway bar. I did not wreck my car. Your rear sway bar is easy to bend under normal drive conditions. Your Racing Beat rear sway bar bends easily. A pot hole or an uneven surface condition will cause the bar to bend. God help the person who jacks up one side of the car to change a flat tire.
2) Your statement that the RB bars are the same as the Mazdaspeed sway bars is wrong. The Mazdaspeed sway bars are indeed different. The rear is significantly different in design, fitment and construction.
3) That I have/had installed the Racing Beat sway bars incorrectly. That is also wrong.
I have purchased several other products from Racing Beat and always been very satisfied. I must say, however, this experience has left me both confused and frustrated. I have never spent so much time, effort and money defending myself.
I have included the pictures you requested. Please note, that I coated the Racing Beat sway bars with a black wax undercoating. This was done for aesthetic purposes as I felt a blood red was not appropriate for a 53 year old man. I cleaned off the wax before returning them. I hope these pictures answer your questions. If you have any questions or if I can be of any further help please feel free to contact me.
Sincerely
Okay can any body guess what I got in response????????
Doc
Jim Tanner Osborne Milton Jr
Dear Sir, March 12, 2007
I am returning the Racing Beat sway bars. I would like a full refund.
At your suggestion I did purchase a set of Mazdaspeed sway bars. I have noted that there is indeed a fitment issue with the rear Racing Beat sway bar as compared with the Mazdaspeed sway bar (which has none). It is also noted that the rear Racing Beat sway bar is without temper and lends itself to bending under normal driving conditions while the Mazda speed is tempered. This lack of temper with the Racing Beat sway bar leads to instability while driving my car. The car is unsafe with the rear bar installed.
I have compared the front RB sway bar with the Mazdaspeed and have no reason to conclude that it suffers from the same issues as the rear Racing Beat sway bar. However given the history of the rear I do not want to bet my life on it and therefore I am returning it also.
A lot of time (it took me about 6 months to order, receive and compare the Mazdaspeed sway bars to the Racing Beat sway bars), money and effort were necessary to check out your theories. I have concluded the following.
1) Your statement that I had to have wrecked my car to bend the Racing Beat rear sway bar. I did not wreck my car. Your rear sway bar is easy to bend under normal drive conditions. Your Racing Beat rear sway bar bends easily. A pot hole or an uneven surface condition will cause the bar to bend. God help the person who jacks up one side of the car to change a flat tire.
2) Your statement that the RB bars are the same as the Mazdaspeed sway bars is wrong. The Mazdaspeed sway bars are indeed different. The rear is significantly different in design, fitment and construction.
3) That I have/had installed the Racing Beat sway bars incorrectly. That is also wrong.
I have purchased several other products from Racing Beat and always been very satisfied. I must say, however, this experience has left me both confused and frustrated. I have never spent so much time, effort and money defending myself.
I have included the pictures you requested. Please note, that I coated the Racing Beat sway bars with a black wax undercoating. This was done for aesthetic purposes as I felt a blood red was not appropriate for a 53 year old man. I cleaned off the wax before returning them. I hope these pictures answer your questions. If you have any questions or if I can be of any further help please feel free to contact me.
Sincerely
Okay can any body guess what I got in response????????
Doc
06-21-07, 07:19 PM
#127
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I sent mine back, Jim received it today and is shipping me out the new chrome moly version. No arguments from him, although I didn't ask for full refund like Doc.
12-21-07, 02:00 AM
#128
This is exactly why I love this forum
I was really hot on purchasing a set and now I know much much much better
There is nothing worse than spending money and time on an upgrade that is actually worse than stock
I am surprised at how calm members of the forum have been
On the flipside, I have extreme respect for RB and are highly concerned about the way they responded to this thread
As I am to make an order on some other things I will make a point to them
I was really hot on purchasing a set and now I know much much much better
There is nothing worse than spending money and time on an upgrade that is actually worse than stock
I am surprised at how calm members of the forum have been
On the flipside, I have extreme respect for RB and are highly concerned about the way they responded to this thread
As I am to make an order on some other things I will make a point to them
02-15-08, 02:21 PM
#131
I just called racing beat on the phone about 30 or so minutes ago. Complete ********. I just had a question about the stop bushings, and he starts giving me this **** about my invoice number (which i didnt have cuz i bought it from mazdatrix) and how they cant help me cuz they dont know if i really have that part or not.
yeah, like i'm really going to call and question about an imaginary part that i dont have right in ******* front of me.
My advice, buy elsewhere.
yeah, like i'm really going to call and question about an imaginary part that i dont have right in ******* front of me.
My advice, buy elsewhere.
02-15-08, 08:35 PM
#132
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2008 Update
I do not like to sling mud. One never knows what the circumstance is that people are working under.
I sent the Racing Beat bars back to them with the letter. To date I have never received a response from Racing Beat. I called many times and never got a response back. They have kept the money and the sway bars.
It is true I am out over three Hundred dollars and have not made a big deal out of it. I guess the issue that left me so disillusioned was the accusation that somehow I had installed them wrong or that I had had an accident with my car and bent them. As a small child I blamed everything on my brother and I think that would have been a better avenue for blame.
As I have stated before I have other RB products on my car. I love the Cat Back. However I hope that this article did have a small part in Racing Beat deciding to build a better product and all of us will benefit from it.
In the end I suspect that it was more about personalities between myself and Mr. T ( a little joke there). I got the impression that he did not like being backed in a corner with so much documentation ( which I sent to them) and his only response was a personal attack.
All said and done my experience with Mr. T was bad. My experience everywhere else concerning my build of the 1994 black R2 has been wonderful. The Mazdaspeed sway have worked out very well. Bushing have been an issue however. They are hard to get.
My latest project has been rebuilding my transmission. 5th gear reached up and got me. It was a wonderful experience. I have now rebuilt 3 of them. There is a great deal of technical material here which helped immensely and Ray has been the man getting me all the parts.
Doc
I sent the Racing Beat bars back to them with the letter. To date I have never received a response from Racing Beat. I called many times and never got a response back. They have kept the money and the sway bars.
It is true I am out over three Hundred dollars and have not made a big deal out of it. I guess the issue that left me so disillusioned was the accusation that somehow I had installed them wrong or that I had had an accident with my car and bent them. As a small child I blamed everything on my brother and I think that would have been a better avenue for blame. As I have stated before I have other RB products on my car. I love the Cat Back. However I hope that this article did have a small part in Racing Beat deciding to build a better product and all of us will benefit from it.
In the end I suspect that it was more about personalities between myself and Mr. T ( a little joke there). I got the impression that he did not like being backed in a corner with so much documentation ( which I sent to them) and his only response was a personal attack.
All said and done my experience with Mr. T was bad. My experience everywhere else concerning my build of the 1994 black R2 has been wonderful. The Mazdaspeed sway have worked out very well. Bushing have been an issue however. They are hard to get.
My latest project has been rebuilding my transmission. 5th gear reached up and got me. It was a wonderful experience. I have now rebuilt 3 of them. There is a great deal of technical material here which helped immensely and Ray has been the man getting me all the parts.
Doc
02-15-08, 09:06 PM
#133
i dont really like to sling mud either, but when a customer calls about a technical question regarding your product, you really shouldnt be a complete *******. Talking to me like a child. i honestly said
"**** You Man." and hung up on his ***. The guy sounded like a high pitched dweeb. so if you call them and get him, prepare yourself.
Bump for letting others know they are ********!
"**** You Man." and hung up on his ***. The guy sounded like a high pitched dweeb. so if you call them and get him, prepare yourself.
Bump for letting others know they are ********!
02-16-08, 06:59 PM
#136
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Whether it was a bad batch or not, I'm glad to know how they stand by their product (or don't stand by it). I guess I'll go in a diff direction with my project.
This is an awesome forum.
This is an awesome forum.
02-22-08, 09:23 PM
#137
you guys will love this:
RB RX-8 rear sway...
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.ph...48#post2312048
now I worry! I have front and rear RB bars on my FD!
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.ph...48#post2312048
now I worry! I have front and rear RB bars on my FD!
Last edited by neit_jnf; 02-22-08 at 09:28 PM.
06-30-08, 11:35 PM
#141
www.silverbulletrx7.com
I recently pulled my RB rear bar and it was fine. However I do have a fitment issue due to my coilovers. If anybody has any info on other rear bars and if they are adjustable please take a look at my post here: https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showthread.php?t=767616
07-01-08, 08:51 AM
#143
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Top two SCCA SM2 FD's use RB rear bars
FYI-
Not sure if you guys autox on the local or national level. In the May 08 issue of the SCCA magazine 'SportsCar' there is an article covering the top two SoloII SM2 cars.
The two top cars happen to be FD's. One is a 410whp 13BREW, the other a 478whp 20B. The cars are set up differently but both are blazingly fast straight line and around corners. I've been lucky enough to see the Strelnieks car run in person. It's unbelievably fast.
These are the top two SM2 cars in the nation.
They both use Racing Beat rear sway bars.
Not sure if you guys autox on the local or national level. In the May 08 issue of the SCCA magazine 'SportsCar' there is an article covering the top two SoloII SM2 cars.
The two top cars happen to be FD's. One is a 410whp 13BREW, the other a 478whp 20B. The cars are set up differently but both are blazingly fast straight line and around corners. I've been lucky enough to see the Strelnieks car run in person. It's unbelievably fast.
These are the top two SM2 cars in the nation.
They both use Racing Beat rear sway bars.
07-21-08, 02:13 AM
#145
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I'm about to order a front RB sway bar to replace the 1 1/8" Addco I now have on the car. I bought it years ago when I autocrossed the car, and also got the matching Addco 7/8" solid rear.
Well, I finally put the rear on to track the car, and scared myself to death: major, major oversteer. The rear end was just scary loose, and these two were meant to be installed together. About half way through the day the front snapped off a connecting bolt to the end link (3rd time that's happened on this bar) and I had to park it.
I'm thinking of getting the larger RB 1.25" for the front in hopes of curing some of the oversteer, or at least get close enough to deal with the remainder through air pressures and alignment. But I can't believe how big that Addco rear bar is, anyone else ever use one of these?
Well, I finally put the rear on to track the car, and scared myself to death: major, major oversteer. The rear end was just scary loose, and these two were meant to be installed together. About half way through the day the front snapped off a connecting bolt to the end link (3rd time that's happened on this bar) and I had to park it.
I'm thinking of getting the larger RB 1.25" for the front in hopes of curing some of the oversteer, or at least get close enough to deal with the remainder through air pressures and alignment. But I can't believe how big that Addco rear bar is, anyone else ever use one of these?
07-22-08, 12:17 PM
#147
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I've got just the RB front swaybar along with the stock '93 rear ('93 being the biggest of the stockers) and it's worked great. Cut body roll during autocross tremendously.
10-23-20, 07:23 PM
#148
2020 recommendation for sway bars? I'm running the stock showa adjustable dampers with 8/6 tein springs, front RB and rear 93 stock bars for now.
Driver side bent inward
Passenger side
Last edited by neit_jnf; 10-23-20 at 11:03 PM.
10-25-20, 09:51 PM
#149
A roll bar for roll bar sake, sure, but think about what they are there for. A stiffer rear bar will increase overseer. FDs tend to overseer. Try it without a rear bar and go from there. Maybe stock 94 then stock 93 then go from there if you seem to be understeering
That said spring rates will affect traction more than roll bars
That said spring rates will affect traction more than roll bars
Last edited by TomU; 10-26-20 at 10:46 AM.
10-26-20, 08:17 AM
#150
Both my stock front bar and rear bar were bent when I took them off the car. I suspect they were both a result of running the car lowered on coilovers, additionally the passenger side front sway bar mount had collapsed.
That said, were you running the links connected to the inward or outward hole (this is how RB refers to the holes, which is dumb and confusing). It looks like from the paint marks, you had them connected to the stiffer inward hole.
EDIT and - were you using adjustable end links?
That said, were you running the links connected to the inward or outward hole (this is how RB refers to the holes, which is dumb and confusing). It looks like from the paint marks, you had them connected to the stiffer inward hole.
EDIT and - were you using adjustable end links?
Last edited by F1blueRx7; 10-26-20 at 10:10 AM. Reason: extra question