The sway bar story Part 1
#51
Mod Powers...gone!
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,522
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This thread is interesting.
Per Racing Beat's website, the front sway bar is solid, while the rear is hollow.
http://www.racingbeat.com/FRmazda3.htm
I'm really annoyed w/ the bar not being tempered.
Despite it being "unnecessary" per the manufacturer's recommendations, this doesn't sit well w/ me for a "sports car".
But I'm going to see what happens w/ this situation. This is definitely a thread I'm keeping an eye on.
Per Racing Beat's website, the front sway bar is solid, while the rear is hollow.
http://www.racingbeat.com/FRmazda3.htm
I'm really annoyed w/ the bar not being tempered.
Despite it being "unnecessary" per the manufacturer's recommendations, this doesn't sit well w/ me for a "sports car".
But I'm going to see what happens w/ this situation. This is definitely a thread I'm keeping an eye on.
#53
Racecar - Formula 2000
Originally Posted by DomFD3S
This thread is interesting.
I'm really annoyed w/ the bar not being tempered.
Despite it being "unnecessary" per the manufacturer's (Racing Beat) recommendations, this doesn't sit well w/ me for a "sports car".
I'm really annoyed w/ the bar not being tempered.
Despite it being "unnecessary" per the manufacturer's (Racing Beat) recommendations, this doesn't sit well w/ me for a "sports car".
If it bent, it WAS necessary, no matter what they said!
Dave
#54
update...
I just spoke w/ RB a few minutes ago & I'm shipping my front bar back to be inspected. I'll check for any bends once it is off the car. I explained to Jim that it was installed correctly and he is cooperating to help diagnose how this could have happened...
#55
Well I just removed my rear sway bar and it is definatlly bent. I matched it up with the stock one and it is bent in two directions, out and up. Both of these bends will cause the car to sag on ths side(left rear).
I took some photos while it was on the car and some side by side with the stock bar.
In the first photo you can see how it forces the mount out and up. If it was centered like the second photo it would not force the LR wheel up and elimiminate sag on this side of the car.
Looks like I will be contacting RB tomorrow as well looking for what, I don't know. If this is how they just are then I will be seeking a refund and going with one of the others mentioned in this thread.
I took some photos while it was on the car and some side by side with the stock bar.
In the first photo you can see how it forces the mount out and up. If it was centered like the second photo it would not force the LR wheel up and elimiminate sag on this side of the car.
Looks like I will be contacting RB tomorrow as well looking for what, I don't know. If this is how they just are then I will be seeking a refund and going with one of the others mentioned in this thread.
#57
Doc-1
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: alabama
Posts: 273
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A note here, both of the RB bars I got were/are solid. The Mazdaspeed are both solid as well. I was surprised to see the OEM rear hollow.
It appears to me that Mazda was looking to take for ways to take every ounce of weight possible off the car, to make it hollow. I does save a pound or two.
It appears to me that Mazda was looking to take for ways to take every ounce of weight possible off the car, to make it hollow. I does save a pound or two.
#59
Racecar - Formula 2000
Originally Posted by adam c
A hollow bar will have the same effectiveness controlling sway as a solid bar, and will weigh less.
It will also tend to yield at a slightly lower loading, given the same material and hardness.
This is the nit-picking engineer in me coming out...
Dave
#61
Racecar - Formula 2000
Originally Posted by adam c
Typical engineer . Argues with you, and then proves you are only 99% right
Yup! I can be a real PITA!
Dave
#62
Doc-1
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: alabama
Posts: 273
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dave while true ......the real golden BB is that you can stack one inside of another. What you can do (if very clever) is have an progressive sway bar. Only DoD and formula 1 can afford. The early versions had an issue for breaking...if you can call it that...they exploded.
Doc
Doc
#63
Racecar - Formula 2000
Originally Posted by Doc-1
Dave while true ......the real golden BB is that you can stack one inside of another. What you can do (if very clever) is have an progressive sway bar. Only DoD and formula 1 can afford. The early versions had an issue for breaking...if you can call it that...they exploded.
Doc
Doc
I believe it would still be linear.
If both bars (one inside the other) were twisted the same # of degrees, and both were constant (but different) torsional rates (which they would be), their rates would be additive, and the sum of the two rates would still be constant the same way a single thickness bar would be. That would still be true even if they had different arm lengths and rotated different, but proportional, #'s of degrees.
Dave
#65
Doc-1
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: alabama
Posts: 273
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dave
What was used... different rates as a function of material and diameter. Stops were incorporated to force rate changes as a function of wheel movement. There for the first several inches were relatively soft and the last inch or so was used to absorb the entire weight of the vehicle. This allows wheel movement without transmitting the shock to the vehicle. By using this approach a stabilized system could be incorporated with some effectiveness. However limits of both sides of the system do exist. In other words it is not a 100% solution, but a very good system solution that covers 90% of the envelope. The hollow torsion bars fit one inside of another and give a practical length of the total. The mechanical stops force a change from one rate to another. The system can be preloaded, each torsion tube can be preloaded. Each wheel can be tuned. The tubes can be made of carbon fiber or any number of metal alloys.
Hope this helps
Doc
What was used... different rates as a function of material and diameter. Stops were incorporated to force rate changes as a function of wheel movement. There for the first several inches were relatively soft and the last inch or so was used to absorb the entire weight of the vehicle. This allows wheel movement without transmitting the shock to the vehicle. By using this approach a stabilized system could be incorporated with some effectiveness. However limits of both sides of the system do exist. In other words it is not a 100% solution, but a very good system solution that covers 90% of the envelope. The hollow torsion bars fit one inside of another and give a practical length of the total. The mechanical stops force a change from one rate to another. The system can be preloaded, each torsion tube can be preloaded. Each wheel can be tuned. The tubes can be made of carbon fiber or any number of metal alloys.
Hope this helps
Doc
#66
Racecar - Formula 2000
OK. Progressive engagement => progressive rate. That makes sense. I posed the question because your original discussion didn't say that. Thanks.
Dave
Dave
#67
Racecar - Formula 2000
Originally Posted by adam c
Dave is only 99% right, so I am going to argue with him, to be a PITA.
If Delti Fi * Gamma squared + 1/2 interior radius of softer bar = 3 sigma's then Dave = only 99% right. Please try to prove me wrong ..........
If Delti Fi * Gamma squared + 1/2 interior radius of softer bar = 3 sigma's then Dave = only 99% right. Please try to prove me wrong ..........
Dave
#69
Lives on the Forum
Originally Posted by DaveW
OK. Progressive engagement => progressive rate.
#72
Racecar - Formula 2000
Originally Posted by Doc-1
Dave
Sorry, it was me that did not provide enough information for my statement.
Sorry, it was me that did not provide enough information for my statement.
Dave
#74
Full Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: New York, N.Y.
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gen3 I sure hope you securely boxed up that bar. Evidently thier UPS delivery man is rather "hard" on his packages, as evidenced by RB statement that the possible reason for the returned bent swaybar might have been caused by UPS.
AMAZING
AMAZING