So you trust your engine builder huh?
10-13-07, 05:14 PM
#1
So you trust your engine builder huh?
I recently bought my current FD with 3k on the SP engine. The engine was built by ___ ______ (one of the most well known rotary company's in the USA). You think you can trust these so called "professional" engine builders but the fact is you really never know what your getting. I guess this just confirms the way I've felt about "big company" engine builds all along. It's quality NOT quantity, which seems to fly out the window with about 90% of the companies out there. (I did not say 100%)
So enough bitching lets see the vids and hear the facts! FACT: Ever since i got this FD I've been chasing a clunking noise that occurs during shifting. Since FD's are literally my job and I have seen this problem countless times before, I went through ALL the normal (and not so normal) things that could be causing this issue. But after all the searching i came up with no solution to my problem..... till last Sunday when my motor kicked the bucket merging onto the interstate. so Monday morning I started the engine pull when i discovered the source of my "clunking noise", engine letting go and the fact that I always burnt more oil than I should have.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=cGsli4cFmcA
http://youtube.com/watch?v=WPLD01PSjF0
Just an FYI the end play spec on 13B REW S6 rotary engine is .001-.002"..... Mine was .070"! But hey who's worried about the other .068" huh huh I mean really?
Oh and by the way, the source of the excessive end play came from (any guesses?) the 6 bolts in the front thrust washer NOT BEING INSTALLED!
Just be careful what you pay for folks! Have a great day everyone and ROTOR ON!
-J
So enough bitching lets see the vids and hear the facts! FACT: Ever since i got this FD I've been chasing a clunking noise that occurs during shifting. Since FD's are literally my job and I have seen this problem countless times before, I went through ALL the normal (and not so normal) things that could be causing this issue. But after all the searching i came up with no solution to my problem..... till last Sunday when my motor kicked the bucket merging onto the interstate. so Monday morning I started the engine pull when i discovered the source of my "clunking noise", engine letting go and the fact that I always burnt more oil than I should have.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=cGsli4cFmcA
http://youtube.com/watch?v=WPLD01PSjF0
Just an FYI the end play spec on 13B REW S6 rotary engine is .001-.002"..... Mine was .070"! But hey who's worried about the other .068" huh huh I mean really?
Oh and by the way, the source of the excessive end play came from (any guesses?) the 6 bolts in the front thrust washer NOT BEING INSTALLED!
Just be careful what you pay for folks! Have a great day everyone and ROTOR ON!
-J
10-13-07, 05:22 PM
#3
10-13-07, 05:32 PM
#4
-J
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10-16-07, 06:48 PM
#9
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Well unfortunatly I don't see how this helps much, I agree "X" company shouldn't be disclosed but perhaps we should assemble a list of basic things to check when recieving an engine and questions to ask "x" company before doing business with them??
Seems obvious that checking end play on any purchased engine before installing it would be 5 min that may save you weeks of headache and frustration later...
Seems obvious that checking end play on any purchased engine before installing it would be 5 min that may save you weeks of headache and frustration later...
10-16-07, 07:14 PM
#11
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This post should have never been posted unless he was going to disclose the builder. You stated it was rebuilt prior to you buying the car. What proof do you have that the builder you think did it really did?
10-16-07, 08:10 PM
#14
I don't think this thread should have been started to begin with, but here we are. I don't trust any "big name" rotary shops in this country. I've heard horror stories about every single one. KDR, Atkins, Petit, Pineapple, Gotham, Mazdatrix...I'm sure you wouldn't be outing anyone who hasn't screwed up at least one engine in the past.
10-16-07, 08:28 PM
#16
did the same builder install the engine? im guessing no.
installer should have the responsibility to check engine condition before dropping it in. its like getting a used engine and not even checking for obvious problems eg. apex seals that are broken or seized rotating internals. how long does it take to check end play? the OP did it in a few seconds.
installer should have the responsibility to check engine condition before dropping it in. its like getting a used engine and not even checking for obvious problems eg. apex seals that are broken or seized rotating internals. how long does it take to check end play? the OP did it in a few seconds.
10-16-07, 08:28 PM
#17
Well...you're not sharing any useful knowledge if you're not going to create a "bad guy" thread on who to avoid.
I don't think this thread should have been started to begin with, but here we are. I don't trust any "big name" rotary shops in this country. I've heard horror stories about every single one. KDR, Atkins, Petit, Pineapple, Gotham, Mazdatrix...I'm sure you wouldn't be outing anyone who hasn't screwed up at least one engine in the past.
I don't think this thread should have been started to begin with, but here we are. I don't trust any "big name" rotary shops in this country. I've heard horror stories about every single one. KDR, Atkins, Petit, Pineapple, Gotham, Mazdatrix...I'm sure you wouldn't be outing anyone who hasn't screwed up at least one engine in the past.
10-16-07, 08:54 PM
#18
Original Gangster/Rotary!
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did the same builder install the engine? im guessing no.
installer should have the responsibility to check engine condition before dropping it in. its like getting a used engine and not even checking for obvious problems eg. apex seals that are broken or seized rotating internals. how long does it take to check end play? the OP did it in a few seconds.
installer should have the responsibility to check engine condition before dropping it in. its like getting a used engine and not even checking for obvious problems eg. apex seals that are broken or seized rotating internals. how long does it take to check end play? the OP did it in a few seconds.
Endplay should be checked when the front cover is still off (during the build), so that if it's out of spec a different width spacer can be installed.
Of course, if someone brought me a motor to be installed that was built by someone else, it would make a hell of a lot of sense to spin the motor to check for compression, as well as check the endplay.
10-16-07, 09:37 PM
#21
What in the mother truck is going on there? 
Leaving the bolts out is an unexcuseable mistake. Hell, leaving them loose would still be. I don't see how the gear shaft didn't rub on the intermediate iron and the stat gears every time you pushed the clutch.
By the look of all the sealant on the parts, it looks like a mazda reman...
I will say that if you did not get the engine directly from whatever builder was rumored to have built it, then I agree with the decision not to badmouth said builder. There's no telling what happened with the previous owner, or what stories they made up to help sell the car. It could be a backyard special that they did themselves, a used engine they got secondhand, etc. No builder should be held accountable for second or thirdhand engines, IMO, because people do a lot of dumb **** between the builder and the 2nd or 3rd owner.
Also, this is another reason why I've started documenting rebuilds for customers of mine, as have a couple of other builders I know of. If there ever were a question of what the porting looked like, or what the parts condition or cleanliness was, it would be put down very quickly this way. It protects both parties, the customer AND the builder, from unnecessary bullshit. Here is one I did last week: http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/kl...tfiles/simmons
Leaving the bolts out is an unexcuseable mistake. Hell, leaving them loose would still be. I don't see how the gear shaft didn't rub on the intermediate iron and the stat gears every time you pushed the clutch.
By the look of all the sealant on the parts, it looks like a mazda reman...
I will say that if you did not get the engine directly from whatever builder was rumored to have built it, then I agree with the decision not to badmouth said builder. There's no telling what happened with the previous owner, or what stories they made up to help sell the car. It could be a backyard special that they did themselves, a used engine they got secondhand, etc. No builder should be held accountable for second or thirdhand engines, IMO, because people do a lot of dumb **** between the builder and the 2nd or 3rd owner.
Also, this is another reason why I've started documenting rebuilds for customers of mine, as have a couple of other builders I know of. If there ever were a question of what the porting looked like, or what the parts condition or cleanliness was, it would be put down very quickly this way. It protects both parties, the customer AND the builder, from unnecessary bullshit. Here is one I did last week: http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/kl...tfiles/simmons
10-17-07, 12:08 AM
#22
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Also, this is another reason why I've started documenting rebuilds for customers of mine, as have a couple of other builders I know of. If there ever were a question of what the porting looked like, or what the parts condition or cleanliness was, it would be put down very quickly this way. It protects both parties, the customer AND the builder, from unnecessary bullshit. Here is one I did last week: http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/kl...tfiles/simmons
Engine shop builds 6 engines a week, has 50-100 in house already built and another 200 with customers. During a race engine #066 blows, engine shop says driver over revved it and blew it up, driver says engine shop fucked up. Two races later another engine blows, built exactly the same, different driver this time, fingers pointed. Engine gets back to the shop and failed for the same reason as the first. Third engine blows, now there is a pattern all three engines where built by the same builder in the shop according to the books. Shop pulls several other engines that builder assembled and finds all the main and rod caps are under torqued by 10 lb/ft and later they conclude the builders torque wrench is out of calibration.
Here is another good one, "x" company calls and says to discard all timing belts between date code 081106 and 081706 and that they are sending replacements for the defective parts. Nobody logged any of that info when building the engines so now you're ripping down engines checking timing belts. A month later a customer comes in and says his engine broke down leaving him stranded and it's your fault because you built it. Later come to find out the engine broke a timing belt that happened to be defective. If the info was logged all someone would have to do is check the book and tear into the affected engines instead of all of them and call the customer and inform him to come in for a free repair. Instead you have a pissed off customer who isn't comming back and tells everyone he knows not to go to the dumb s&*ts at "x" company because they f&^ked up his car.
At the same time if you are getting something second hand or buying it used, assume it is a pile of crap until you prove otherwise. I've refused to by low mileage good running cars before because the seller wouldn't let me do a compression check or go deeper into the engine to check something. As they say, assumption is the mother of all f-ups.
10-17-07, 12:17 AM
#23
Doritos on a toothpick
by NOT disclosing the engine builder in question....you are throwing EVERY engine builder under the bus....even though the others may do an excellent job....now you have created a negative thread geared towards ONE builder but effectively bad-mouthing ANY "big" engine builder......thats not cool....just settle the issue with the builder and post the resolution here so we can all know how they dealt with the problem.....
10-17-07, 01:32 AM
#24
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I would also like to know who the engine builder was, but only if you have PROOF that they did in fact do the rebuild. If you have no proof (invoice/receipt) then I agree with you.. you shouldn't disclose the shop.
Either way, I'm still surprised it made it to 3k miles!
Either way, I'm still surprised it made it to 3k miles!
