So this is interesting... (No compression?)
02-17-17, 08:21 AM
#1
So this is interesting... (No compression?)
So this is interesting!
A few weeks ago I drove the car to a friends house, and everything ran great.
Nothing to note! Drove home, parked in the garage and that's where she sat.
Fast forward to today, and the car doesn't start.
As the engine is rotating with the starter, you don't hear any obvious "chugs" from compression.
Wondering if the engine was getting spark, I attached a timing light to each plug wire and verified. (Spark is going through the wires.)
Wondering if the engine was flooded, I removed the plugs to have a look at them.
Sure enough, they're soaked with fuel.
At this point, I did not immediately attempt to "de-flood" the engine.
Instead, I decided to turn the engine over by hand.
That's when I noticed the engine turns over very freely and without making any sounds of compression.
I haven't done anything else yet, but wanted to share that bit with you guys.
Is it possible that the engine really lost compression with seemingly no warning?
I suppose tonight I'll pull the FP relay and crank the engine with the plugs out to try and de-flood and also listen for compression.
Will update, but wanted to share.
What do you think?
A few weeks ago I drove the car to a friends house, and everything ran great.
Nothing to note! Drove home, parked in the garage and that's where she sat.
Fast forward to today, and the car doesn't start.
As the engine is rotating with the starter, you don't hear any obvious "chugs" from compression.
Wondering if the engine was getting spark, I attached a timing light to each plug wire and verified. (Spark is going through the wires.)
Wondering if the engine was flooded, I removed the plugs to have a look at them.
Sure enough, they're soaked with fuel.
At this point, I did not immediately attempt to "de-flood" the engine.
Instead, I decided to turn the engine over by hand.
That's when I noticed the engine turns over very freely and without making any sounds of compression.
I haven't done anything else yet, but wanted to share that bit with you guys.
Is it possible that the engine really lost compression with seemingly no warning?
I suppose tonight I'll pull the FP relay and crank the engine with the plugs out to try and de-flood and also listen for compression.
Will update, but wanted to share.
What do you think?
02-17-17, 09:17 AM
#3
Obviously, I can put a compression tester gauge on it and see... But the quickest and easiest thing would to take the plugs out and let it spin. If I don't hear anything I'd say something done went hoop-a-jooped.
02-17-17, 09:25 AM
#4
If you flood a motor bad enough you can wash the oil off the seals causing them to stick, and a loss of compression. Assuming you did the spark test correctly and are getting fuel, do the following:
Make sure you have a strong battery or charge it.
Pull the plugs. Clean and dry them.
Pull the egi relay. Floor the gas pedal and crank the car for 10 seconds at a time with 20 second breaks in between until no more fuel vapor comes out of the plug holes.
Squirt a little atf down the spark plug holes or intake manifold runners and turn the motor over again as above.
Reinstall the plugs and egi relay, and the car should start. Keep it alive until all the atf clears out.
If it continues to happen you have a compression issue or leaking injector.
Make sure you have a strong battery or charge it.
Pull the plugs. Clean and dry them.
Pull the egi relay. Floor the gas pedal and crank the car for 10 seconds at a time with 20 second breaks in between until no more fuel vapor comes out of the plug holes.
Squirt a little atf down the spark plug holes or intake manifold runners and turn the motor over again as above.
Reinstall the plugs and egi relay, and the car should start. Keep it alive until all the atf clears out.
If it continues to happen you have a compression issue or leaking injector.
02-17-17, 09:44 AM
#7
If you flood a motor bad enough you can wash the oil off the seals causing them to stick, and a loss of compression. Assuming you did the spark test correctly and are getting fuel, do the following:
Make sure you have a strong battery or charge it.
Pull the plugs. Clean and dry them.
Pull the egi relay. Floor the gas pedal and crank the car for 10 seconds at a time with 20 second breaks in between until no more fuel vapor comes out of the plug holes.
Squirt a little atf down the spark plug holes or intake manifold runners and turn the motor over again as above.
Reinstall the plugs and egi relay, and the car should start. Keep it alive until all the atf clears out.
If it continues to happen you have a compression issue or leaking injector.
Make sure you have a strong battery or charge it.
Pull the plugs. Clean and dry them.
Pull the egi relay. Floor the gas pedal and crank the car for 10 seconds at a time with 20 second breaks in between until no more fuel vapor comes out of the plug holes.
Squirt a little atf down the spark plug holes or intake manifold runners and turn the motor over again as above.
Reinstall the plugs and egi relay, and the car should start. Keep it alive until all the atf clears out.
If it continues to happen you have a compression issue or leaking injector.
Sounds like a plan. I'll definitely try this and report back how it goes.
Probably be this weekend before I'll do it.
Looking forward to figuring it out.
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02-18-17, 02:02 PM
#8
Well, went from no "chugga chugga" to a little bit of "chugga chugga" while cranking with the plugs out.
Thinking maybe the seals freed up again and might be making compression, I put it all back together and attempted to start. No bueno.
Charging up the battery again, and going to make another go at it.
Still turns over by hand very freely. If I don't make any more progress, I'll slap a compression gauge on there and see if there's anything.
I appreciate everyone input earlier. I'll let you know how it goes.
Thinking maybe the seals freed up again and might be making compression, I put it all back together and attempted to start. No bueno.
Charging up the battery again, and going to make another go at it.
Still turns over by hand very freely. If I don't make any more progress, I'll slap a compression gauge on there and see if there's anything.
I appreciate everyone input earlier. I'll let you know how it goes.
02-19-17, 10:38 AM
#10
Followed by a 30min drive back home w/o issue.
Nothing out of the ordinary.
Just tried again, and it's the same story.
I feel no resistance when I rotate the engine by hand.
Guess I'll go dig out the compression gauge and see if I can get some #'s.
02-19-17, 06:32 PM
#11
I had an FD which we did a full power pull, then continued to drive it about 30 minutes home on the highway- once we got home and turned it off, the car never started ever again and exhibited the same no compression/weak chugging issues you're seeing.
We pulled the entire engine out and have not opened it up yet for autopsy but it was blown. From your near identical description I think you're in the same boat.
We pulled the entire engine out and have not opened it up yet for autopsy but it was blown. From your near identical description I think you're in the same boat.
02-20-17, 08:23 AM
#13
I had an FD which we did a full power pull, then continued to drive it about 30 minutes home on the highway- once we got home and turned it off, the car never started ever again and exhibited the same no compression/weak chugging issues you're seeing.
We pulled the entire engine out and have not opened it up yet for autopsy but it was blown. From your near identical description I think you're in the same boat.
We pulled the entire engine out and have not opened it up yet for autopsy but it was blown. From your near identical description I think you're in the same boat.
I'm going to put the compression gauge on it today and see what it reads.
04-01-17, 01:35 PM
#14
Sorry it took me a while to update this. (Life happens. )
Finally put a standard compress gauge on the rear rotor because it's easier to access. I left all the other spark plugs in and out the gauge on the leading plug hole.
Pulled the EFI fuse and cranked the engine over for a good 5-8 seconds.
The results were not good. Gauge read about 18-20psi.
I guess i could test all the other plug holes, but I'd wager a bet that this engine is toast? Interesting how it all unfolded anyway. Without warning, just dead one day.
Think I should do the deflooding process one more time for good measure? Or just rebuild or buy another engine. (This time maybe a Bridgeport )
thoughts?
Finally put a standard compress gauge on the rear rotor because it's easier to access. I left all the other spark plugs in and out the gauge on the leading plug hole.
Pulled the EFI fuse and cranked the engine over for a good 5-8 seconds.
The results were not good. Gauge read about 18-20psi.
I guess i could test all the other plug holes, but I'd wager a bet that this engine is toast? Interesting how it all unfolded anyway. Without warning, just dead one day.
Think I should do the deflooding process one more time for good measure? Or just rebuild or buy another engine. (This time maybe a Bridgeport )
thoughts?
04-02-17, 04:37 PM
#17
Sorry it took me a while to update this. (Life happens. )
Finally put a standard compress gauge on the rear rotor because it's easier to access. I left all the other spark plugs in and out the gauge on the leading plug hole.
Pulled the EFI fuse and cranked the engine over for a good 5-8 seconds.
The results were not good. Gauge read about 18-20psi.
I guess i could test all the other plug holes, but I'd wager a bet that this engine is toast? Interesting how it all unfolded anyway. Without warning, just dead one day.
Think I should do the deflooding process one more time for good measure? Or just rebuild or buy another engine. (This time maybe a Bridgeport )
thoughts?
Finally put a standard compress gauge on the rear rotor because it's easier to access. I left all the other spark plugs in and out the gauge on the leading plug hole.
Pulled the EFI fuse and cranked the engine over for a good 5-8 seconds.
The results were not good. Gauge read about 18-20psi.
I guess i could test all the other plug holes, but I'd wager a bet that this engine is toast? Interesting how it all unfolded anyway. Without warning, just dead one day.
Think I should do the deflooding process one more time for good measure? Or just rebuild or buy another engine. (This time maybe a Bridgeport )
thoughts?
Was the car difficult to hot start?
First engine, they said the oil pump failed. One of the rotors seized to the e-shaft. Also had hot start issue.
Second engine, not entirely sure, but it was related to oil as well. E-shaft was scarred/showed signs of wear. Oil chain was loose, and marks on the oil pump. This engine was about 30K, had hot start issues, and before it died, was having issues with oil temp. Aftermarket dual oil coolers, but for some reasons had high oil temp ~250-280F while moving at freeway speed. Never had a chance to find out why before motor would no longer start, and decided to just pull the engine.
Oil pressure was fine, was thinking it was the oil thermostat.
04-03-17, 01:21 PM
#19
Yes, I did.
No go.
I filled a syringe approximately 1-1.5 oz. and put the ATF in both rotors. (Not sure if more is required?)
I would just imagine that after doing that, and hopefully getting the seals to do their job... it would be more resistant to cranking over by hand using the ratchet. (Turns over so smooth and easy, w/o any noises of compression/de-compression.)
Wouldn't hurt for me to try again on all tasks, and this time throw in the brand new spark plugs I bought.
No go.
I filled a syringe approximately 1-1.5 oz. and put the ATF in both rotors. (Not sure if more is required?)
I would just imagine that after doing that, and hopefully getting the seals to do their job... it would be more resistant to cranking over by hand using the ratchet. (Turns over so smooth and easy, w/o any noises of compression/de-compression.)
Wouldn't hurt for me to try again on all tasks, and this time throw in the brand new spark plugs I bought.
04-03-17, 01:26 PM
#20
Interested to see what went wrong. I have seen 2 motors go with symptoms you have stated.
Was the car difficult to hot start?
First engine, they said the oil pump failed. One of the rotors seized to the e-shaft. Also had hot start issue.
Second engine, not entirely sure, but it was related to oil as well. E-shaft was scarred/showed signs of wear. Oil chain was loose, and marks on the oil pump. This engine was about 30K, had hot start issues, and before it died, was having issues with oil temp. Aftermarket dual oil coolers, but for some reasons had high oil temp ~250-280F while moving at freeway speed. Never had a chance to find out why before motor would no longer start, and decided to just pull the engine.
Oil pressure was fine, was thinking it was the oil thermostat.
Was the car difficult to hot start?
First engine, they said the oil pump failed. One of the rotors seized to the e-shaft. Also had hot start issue.
Second engine, not entirely sure, but it was related to oil as well. E-shaft was scarred/showed signs of wear. Oil chain was loose, and marks on the oil pump. This engine was about 30K, had hot start issues, and before it died, was having issues with oil temp. Aftermarket dual oil coolers, but for some reasons had high oil temp ~250-280F while moving at freeway speed. Never had a chance to find out why before motor would no longer start, and decided to just pull the engine.
Oil pressure was fine, was thinking it was the oil thermostat.
Hot start, no problems... Hardly smoked at all too with a free flowing exhaust.
I wouldn't be too surprised if I did this myself. I've been boost spiking due to the restriction-less exhaust and I didn't put any supplemental fuel management on the car. (I hardly boosted the thing at all... Just enjoyed driving it.)
You can see why I'm reluctant to pull it out based on all these strange behaviors.
I think I'll try once again the de-flooding process and see if I can get any compression back.
04-04-17, 06:11 PM
#21
Welllll.... I got her back!
I put more ATF (this time with a hose) down into each rotor and let her sit over night.
Also, put in fresh plugs. (Most likely the plugs that helped the most.)
But sure as ****, fired back up, ran rough, but eventually everything went back to "normal."
At least the way it was before this issue.
Lessons learned?
Nothing really. Still not sure what caused the flooding, since that's what seems to be the most likely culprit.
I'm going to re-compression check the engine after I drive it a few more times and see what it reads.
Those seals must have been really stuck to go from 18-20psi to running strong engine.
I'll update again after a little time has passed. Thanks again for all the suggestions and help.
04-04-17, 07:22 PM
#22
Glad you got it started, been a long time ago and an FC, but thought I'd add:
Back in '88 bought a '88TII new and the first year the car sat a short time in the garage during the winter, but
in the spring, no go. Sounded like a sewing machine as it spun over, no compression and this was with 7k miles on the car.
Had it towed to the local dealer and they used ATF to get it started. When I picked it up they stated that they had a few
that wouldn't start after the winter and had to use the same procedure. The car ran great after, except for the trailing plug
problem, but that was there since 400 miles. Just curious as to the cause, so even spoke with Jim Mederer at RB, but no
significant explanation was offered. The next year, the same occurrence, so I did the ATF to get it started and once again
the car ran great afterwards.
Mazda bought the car back and I then got the '89 TII at dealer cost. With the '89, never had a problem when the car has
been in storage over the winter.
Difference??????????????????
Back in '88 bought a '88TII new and the first year the car sat a short time in the garage during the winter, but
in the spring, no go. Sounded like a sewing machine as it spun over, no compression and this was with 7k miles on the car.
Had it towed to the local dealer and they used ATF to get it started. When I picked it up they stated that they had a few
that wouldn't start after the winter and had to use the same procedure. The car ran great after, except for the trailing plug
problem, but that was there since 400 miles. Just curious as to the cause, so even spoke with Jim Mederer at RB, but no
significant explanation was offered. The next year, the same occurrence, so I did the ATF to get it started and once again
the car ran great afterwards.
Mazda bought the car back and I then got the '89 TII at dealer cost. With the '89, never had a problem when the car has
been in storage over the winter.
Difference??????????????????