SMIC or H20/AI injection on stock boost?
12-27-09, 08:53 PM
#1
SMIC or H20/AI injection on stock boost?
My goal is to keep my stock engine with 40k running strong for as long as possible. It gets hot here in San Antonio and I want to keep the intake temp down. I like the cleaning aspect of the water injection and I know it will probably drop the IAT much more than even a nice sized & ducted SMIC. I don't want a problem with detonation if the boost ever gets to 11. Other than an HKS downpipe and K&N drop in filter my car is stock. I can also get a nice injection kit for $300 or so and not have to mess with remplacing the stock intercooler and spending $1000 or more. Seems like the right thing to do. Since I won't be relying on a large amount of water/alcohol I think the wiper tank. Is my thinking correct?
12-27-09, 09:56 PM
#2
Rotary Freak
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You can get a SMIC much cheaper if you do not buy name brand. Some say they are same others say they are not as good. It is like paying more money because your levi jeans have the red tab 
If your engine is stock it is unlikely you will be running alcohol. I would imagine you would just use water, and that is pretty safe.
You might want to look at the other reliability mods first. I believe they are posted in the FAQ. Things like a better flowing rad.
If your engine is stock it is unlikely you will be running alcohol. I would imagine you would just use water, and that is pretty safe.
You might want to look at the other reliability mods first. I believe they are posted in the FAQ. Things like a better flowing rad.
12-27-09, 10:15 PM
#3
Any reason why an SMIC would be a better move on a stock car? Looking at the coolingmist.com simple kit for $250. Much less pricey than an aquamist 1s and I think it will accomplish the same thing. I figured I would run Peak brand wiper fluid. It's about $1.50 a gallon and has some alcohol in it which I don't think can hurt.
I am one of those people who would probably buy a name brand intercooler. Reliability mods already done....
AST
HKS downpipe, wrapped.
Fan switch mod
pettit 185 deg. fan switch
Going to wait on radiator until summer.
I am one of those people who would probably buy a name brand intercooler. Reliability mods already done....
AST
HKS downpipe, wrapped.
Fan switch mod
pettit 185 deg. fan switch
Going to wait on radiator until summer.
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12-28-09, 09:35 AM
#9
if you want colder intake temps, you can upgrade the intercooler (I'd keep a SMIC) but make sure you keep the stock airbox. there is a Mazda TSB that specifically warned against them all the way back in 95:
You can keep your engine bay temps down by installing an FC thermoswitch. I disagree that any kind of injection is necessary on a stock car. The main cooling problems with the stock car are the precat, the high trigger temps for the fans, the small intercooler core (stock ducting is fine) and the lack of dual oil coolers on most models.
You can keep your engine bay temps down by installing an FC thermoswitch. I disagree that any kind of injection is necessary on a stock car. The main cooling problems with the stock car are the precat, the high trigger temps for the fans, the small intercooler core (stock ducting is fine) and the lack of dual oil coolers on most models.
12-28-09, 10:02 AM
#10
My goal is to keep my stock engine with 40k running strong for as long as possible. It gets hot here in San Antonio and I want to keep the intake temp down. I like the cleaning aspect of the water injection and I know it will probably drop the IAT much more than even a nice sized & ducted SMIC. I don't want a problem with detonation if the boost ever gets to 11. Other than an HKS downpipe and K&N drop in filter my car is stock. I can also get a nice injection kit for $300 or so and not have to mess with remplacing the stock intercooler and spending $1000 or more. Seems like the right thing to do. Since I won't be relying on a large amount of water/alcohol I think the wiper tank. Is my thinking correct?
12-28-09, 07:50 PM
#12
if you want colder intake temps, you can upgrade the intercooler (I'd keep a SMIC) but make sure you keep the stock airbox. there is a Mazda TSB that specifically warned against them all the way back in 95:
You can keep your engine bay temps down by installing an FC thermoswitch. I disagree that any kind of injection is necessary on a stock car. The main cooling problems with the stock car are the precat, the high trigger temps for the fans, the small intercooler core (stock ducting is fine) and the lack of dual oil coolers on most models.
You can keep your engine bay temps down by installing an FC thermoswitch. I disagree that any kind of injection is necessary on a stock car. The main cooling problems with the stock car are the precat, the high trigger temps for the fans, the small intercooler core (stock ducting is fine) and the lack of dual oil coolers on most models.
I just felt that the water injection in conjunction with the stock intercooler would be more effective than just an SMIC alone. From what I've it's more effective than an intercooler because it can actually lower IAT below ambient air temp which would be impossible with an air to air intercooler.
12-28-09, 09:19 PM
#14
I wish I had the time and money to do a somewhat scientific analysis of stock IC, stock IC + water injection, and small-med SMIC with and without water injection. I still think that due to the huge cooling ability of water that the stock IC + water injection would give 2nd coolest IAT, 2nd only to some sort of SMIC with water injection.
12-29-09, 12:37 AM
#15
I just felt that the water injection in conjunction with the stock intercooler would be more effective than just an SMIC alone. From what I've it's more effective than an intercooler because it can actually lower IAT below ambient air temp which would be impossible with an air to air intercooler.
exactly!
keep the stock intercooler, and no larger than an M5 (380cc?) after the turbo. and no larger than an M1 pre-turbo
you can use a mixture with meth in small amount with no tuning. but remember: pre-turbo = water ONLY!
12-29-09, 07:12 AM
#16
I was tossing around the idea of using wiper fluid but I'm fine with just water. I would be injecting post-turbo and using the smaller of the nozzles provided with the AEM kit. Unfortunately I don't have flow rates from them. That is something I would like to find out.
12-29-09, 09:01 AM
#18
Racing Rotary Since 1983
iTrader: (6)
i agree w most of what has been posted in this thread.
there are advantages to upgrading your IC as well as advantages to doing the AI.
i like the AI because it will not only cool your combustion but will steam clean your engine. most engines i disassemble are seriously carbon impaired. when i say seriously that is precisely what i mean. rotors coated with up to a tenth of an inch of carbon. apex seal grooves often clogged w carbon to the point the seals are unable to move in their groove.
i disassembled my 4 year old 500 hp motor a year ago just to give it a look-see. i found almost no carbon. my compression after 4 years was still increasing and was at an all time high after 4 years and over 250 4th gear 2000-8000+ dyno runs and hundreds of street blasts.
my motor was clean and happy primarily because of 2 items:
1. AI
2. Deleted External Oil Pump and Premix as a replacement.
CARBON KILLS OUR MOTORS
NOT ONLY DOES IT CLOG THE CRUCIAL SEAL GROOVES THEREBY INHIBITING NECESSARY APEX SEAL MOVEMENT BUT IT RETAINS HEAT, ACTING LIKE A GLOWPLUG, AND CAN IGNITE GASOLINE BEFORE THE SPARKPLUG CAUSING LIFE THREATENING PREIGNITION.
as to what you should run as injectant...
i like water alone, methanol (alcohol) alone or a mix including windshield washer solvent.
FJO's in-house test car is a 1200 rwhp twin turbo Camaro. it has run "bug juice" for 4 years and is happy.
there's lots of info in the AI section.
you have picked good initial mods...
steam clean the carbon out of your motor while cooling the CCP,
howard coleman
there are advantages to upgrading your IC as well as advantages to doing the AI.
i like the AI because it will not only cool your combustion but will steam clean your engine. most engines i disassemble are seriously carbon impaired. when i say seriously that is precisely what i mean. rotors coated with up to a tenth of an inch of carbon. apex seal grooves often clogged w carbon to the point the seals are unable to move in their groove.
i disassembled my 4 year old 500 hp motor a year ago just to give it a look-see. i found almost no carbon. my compression after 4 years was still increasing and was at an all time high after 4 years and over 250 4th gear 2000-8000+ dyno runs and hundreds of street blasts.
my motor was clean and happy primarily because of 2 items:
1. AI
2. Deleted External Oil Pump and Premix as a replacement.
CARBON KILLS OUR MOTORS
NOT ONLY DOES IT CLOG THE CRUCIAL SEAL GROOVES THEREBY INHIBITING NECESSARY APEX SEAL MOVEMENT BUT IT RETAINS HEAT, ACTING LIKE A GLOWPLUG, AND CAN IGNITE GASOLINE BEFORE THE SPARKPLUG CAUSING LIFE THREATENING PREIGNITION.
as to what you should run as injectant...
i like water alone, methanol (alcohol) alone or a mix including windshield washer solvent.
FJO's in-house test car is a 1200 rwhp twin turbo Camaro. it has run "bug juice" for 4 years and is happy.
there's lots of info in the AI section.
you have picked good initial mods...
steam clean the carbon out of your motor while cooling the CCP,
howard coleman
Last edited by Howard Coleman; 12-29-09 at 09:57 AM.
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