Small coolant leak
11-10-10, 02:52 PM
#1
Small coolant leak
Hi everyone, I had a nice big post typed up to put on here but my computer froze just as it was posting so I'm gonna be much more to the point on this one and not use complete sentences to make it shorter. Bear with me.
Was driving, not heavy not light. I will say this in caps so it looks like im yelling so i don't have to mention it later. CAR HAS NEVER ONCE OVERHEATED. NOT TONIGHT, NOT EVER. Anyways.. parked it, got out.. same as usual. Didn't notice a leak but it very well could have been there (but i DEFINITELY didn't see/ smell anything. Friends dad wanted to see, drove car into garage, leak noticed.
It was coolant coming from what seemed to be just behind, a bit left, and about half way in depth through the engine (ie not at the top but not at the bottom.) But couldn't pinpoint exact location. A total of probably 1 oz (1 shot glass full was leaked) (leaked drip by drip)
After that, drove to moms place, a couple km highway drive, didn't run much boost (some was inevitable). Definitely got to full operating temp but no overheat (oh right.. the caps..). CHecked the leak several times on way home, no leaking. (At least it seemed that way, looking back there may have been a tiny bit that i just didn't notice. Yes i physically got out on the highway to check. Problems?) Stopped at gas station and checked again, no problems (once again, appeared to be okay at a glance) (car was running everytime i checked on the way home.) Got to moms, turned off, checked, TINY amounts of leakage. Enouch to cover the bottom of a cup. Not nearly as much as before. Once again.. drip, drip drip. Came back out, drove to dads, Car got to full opperating temp once again (no overheat) and did one little throttle up just to make sure the engine was alive. Parked and checked leak. One maybe two drops max leaked.
Exhaust doesn't smell like coolant, and i should mention that a couple times in cold start up, it was puffing some white smoke just until it got warmed up a bit (as far as i know this is completely normal..)
Couldn't see any reservoir tanks, too dark out, i'll check tomorrow.
Read this whole thread as it seemed mildly applicable: https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-gen-archives-73/coolant-leak-after-shut-off-26421/
I just thought I'd post for some more specialized help.
I'm debating if I should go drive it a bit heavier or not to see if it leaks as much as it did the first time.
I should mention that i've checked it several times since (haven't really driven in the last couple days) and I believe I've seen some sign of leakage. Very tiny amounts.
I am by no means a mechanic or anything like that. Maybe I too am in denial of a rebuild but to me this just seems like a broken seal in the water (antifreeze) cooling system. I would say maybe check / replace hoses, check tanks (cheap plastic breaks? thats what i've heard at least..) and even check caps.
Like i said, I am rather inexperienced (know the basics.. whatever), especially with rotary so I thought I might as well consult some people who know their ****.
Pictures are definitely available upon request.
Let me know what you guys think (prefferably only good things...)
EDIT: i've been told by someone quite experienced with FDs that I should add coolant prior to driving as too much isn't an issue. Noob *** question.. where do I add it. Lol. Please no flame but like.. rad cap, reservoir.. overflow.. ??
Thanks times a million
Was driving, not heavy not light. I will say this in caps so it looks like im yelling so i don't have to mention it later. CAR HAS NEVER ONCE OVERHEATED. NOT TONIGHT, NOT EVER. Anyways.. parked it, got out.. same as usual. Didn't notice a leak but it very well could have been there (but i DEFINITELY didn't see/ smell anything. Friends dad wanted to see, drove car into garage, leak noticed.
It was coolant coming from what seemed to be just behind, a bit left, and about half way in depth through the engine (ie not at the top but not at the bottom.) But couldn't pinpoint exact location. A total of probably 1 oz (1 shot glass full was leaked) (leaked drip by drip)
After that, drove to moms place, a couple km highway drive, didn't run much boost (some was inevitable). Definitely got to full operating temp but no overheat (oh right.. the caps..). CHecked the leak several times on way home, no leaking. (At least it seemed that way, looking back there may have been a tiny bit that i just didn't notice. Yes i physically got out on the highway to check. Problems?) Stopped at gas station and checked again, no problems (once again, appeared to be okay at a glance) (car was running everytime i checked on the way home.) Got to moms, turned off, checked, TINY amounts of leakage. Enouch to cover the bottom of a cup. Not nearly as much as before. Once again.. drip, drip drip. Came back out, drove to dads, Car got to full opperating temp once again (no overheat) and did one little throttle up just to make sure the engine was alive. Parked and checked leak. One maybe two drops max leaked.
Exhaust doesn't smell like coolant, and i should mention that a couple times in cold start up, it was puffing some white smoke just until it got warmed up a bit (as far as i know this is completely normal..)
Couldn't see any reservoir tanks, too dark out, i'll check tomorrow.
Read this whole thread as it seemed mildly applicable: https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-gen-archives-73/coolant-leak-after-shut-off-26421/
I just thought I'd post for some more specialized help.
I'm debating if I should go drive it a bit heavier or not to see if it leaks as much as it did the first time.
I should mention that i've checked it several times since (haven't really driven in the last couple days) and I believe I've seen some sign of leakage. Very tiny amounts.
I am by no means a mechanic or anything like that. Maybe I too am in denial of a rebuild but to me this just seems like a broken seal in the water (antifreeze) cooling system. I would say maybe check / replace hoses, check tanks (cheap plastic breaks? thats what i've heard at least..) and even check caps.
Like i said, I am rather inexperienced (know the basics.. whatever), especially with rotary so I thought I might as well consult some people who know their ****.
Pictures are definitely available upon request.
Let me know what you guys think (prefferably only good things...)
EDIT: i've been told by someone quite experienced with FDs that I should add coolant prior to driving as too much isn't an issue. Noob *** question.. where do I add it. Lol. Please no flame but like.. rad cap, reservoir.. overflow.. ??
Thanks times a million
Last edited by Mitchocalypse; 11-10-10 at 02:55 PM. Reason: adding content
11-10-10, 03:24 PM
#2
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can you take a picture and draw a red arrow of where its leaking? left doesn't say much. Turbo side or the other side? When you say its leaking are you noticing the puddle under the car? Where exactly is it pooling at? How stock is your car/what mods are done? My reaction is 3 things, the coolant feed/drain lines to the turbo, the line to the heater core, the coolant line to the throttle body, just based on your description.
11-10-10, 03:43 PM
#4
Constantly check your fluid IF YOU MUST drive the vehicle. To add coolant, open up at the radiator, top off over there. And at the engine water pump housing, open it up and top of as necessary.
A leak is a leak, it is not advice to drive the vehicle when you have a coolant leak because it can leak to disastrous situations which can in term cost you alot more to fix.
If I were you, since you dont know much about the car and doesnt have the equipment to pressure test the cooling system to verify the leak. Bring it to a reputated shop near you (rotary specialist perferred but non-special should still be ok to do so). Pay them and have them figure our where the leak is from.
It doesnt sound like it's leaking from the internal coolant seal, so keep us updated.
-AzEKnightz
A leak is a leak, it is not advice to drive the vehicle when you have a coolant leak because it can leak to disastrous situations which can in term cost you alot more to fix.
If I were you, since you dont know much about the car and doesnt have the equipment to pressure test the cooling system to verify the leak. Bring it to a reputated shop near you (rotary specialist perferred but non-special should still be ok to do so). Pay them and have them figure our where the leak is from.
It doesnt sound like it's leaking from the internal coolant seal, so keep us updated.
-AzEKnightz
11-10-10, 03:48 PM
#5
If you don't intend on doing the work get into a shop and have them replace as many coolant hoses as you can afford. For ultimate reliability on a car this old you want to replace all of them. You can get the complete hose kit from Ray at Malloy Mazda (see FAQ thread) for about US$170. Also get a set of OEM coolant hose clamps as they make install so much easier and are much better than generic worm type hose clamps.
On the non-turbo side of the motor in the rear, there are a few coolant hoses that get hard and leak over time:
- small 90* hose under the throttle body (completely invisible)
- large J shaped hose beside the oil filter / under the throttle body intake elbow
- bitch of a hose that goes from the turbo side of the motor buried under the intake manifold way in the back to the rear of the throttle body
The water pump lasts forever so you don't need to change that. Consider changing the thermostat with an OEM one from Ray at Malloy since you are there.
It is preferable to get this kind of work done at a rotary shop that knows the FD as some hoses are impossible to find and tricky to install (OEM hose clamps make it easier) and getting air out of the coolant system is a pita to the mechanic not familiar with the FD.
On the non-turbo side of the motor in the rear, there are a few coolant hoses that get hard and leak over time:
- small 90* hose under the throttle body (completely invisible)
- large J shaped hose beside the oil filter / under the throttle body intake elbow
- bitch of a hose that goes from the turbo side of the motor buried under the intake manifold way in the back to the rear of the throttle body
The water pump lasts forever so you don't need to change that. Consider changing the thermostat with an OEM one from Ray at Malloy since you are there.
It is preferable to get this kind of work done at a rotary shop that knows the FD as some hoses are impossible to find and tricky to install (OEM hose clamps make it easier) and getting air out of the coolant system is a pita to the mechanic not familiar with the FD.
11-10-10, 08:06 PM
#6
Okay thanks alot guys, I'm pretty confidant I would be able to do this myself but I'm always afraid of just doing it wrong. I just want to drive under normal boost conditions just once (after topping off the coolant of course) to make it easier to find the leak (to my knowledge, coolant pressure should also increase) making it easier to locate the leak. I'd like it fixed before I park it for the winter
11-10-10, 09:13 PM
#7
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I may be grasping here as I'm relatively new, but I did just do 4 engine switches in a row to get my FD to pass CA smog where my brother and I had to remove and replace the intercooler, air intake, all pipes and tubes that connect both to the main engine. As part of this we had to disconnect the coolant lines running from the radiator to the Pettit Air Separator tank. Because the tank had to be mounted in two totally different positions to switch to the stock intercooler and back again to the aftermarket one we were forced to re-route the lines. The first time I went to move the lines I noticed one, that connects to the lower (or bottom) of the tank was being pinched. I can't get into my engine to take a picture anymore (its blocked by the intercooler) but I'll try my best to describe it.
Under the bottom of where the intercooler mounts is a bar that is part of the chassis of the car. on the back side of this (the edge furthest away from the nose of the car) If you were standing at the nose looking at the car, the edge closer to the cockpit, there was a hard steel tube and another larger black rubber tube. The coolant line was wedged between the metal line and the chassis bar. It was pinched. The pinch caused the edges to be cracked, when we moved the line it started dripping (very slowly) drops of coolant.
With the air intake and the intercooler out it wasn't too hard to get to the coolant tubes. We drained the coolant. I brought the hose to the local auto parts store and told them I needed a replacement that was high pressure and super heat resistant. It was about $40 for all the replacement lines. The wall on the hose they gave me was nearly twice as thick as the old hose, it was a lot more sturdy and you couldn't kink the hose if you tried. We simply re-routed the hose so it wasn't squished by any other lines and ran it up through one of the holes already in the car chassis bar. Now all the coolant lines are free and clear. It took us maybe an hour. Replaced all the coolant and everything seems good so far.
So my guess is to check the coolant lines as I'm pretty sure all rubber hoses will crack over time from high heat and you might just find a kink like I did.
Under the bottom of where the intercooler mounts is a bar that is part of the chassis of the car. on the back side of this (the edge furthest away from the nose of the car) If you were standing at the nose looking at the car, the edge closer to the cockpit, there was a hard steel tube and another larger black rubber tube. The coolant line was wedged between the metal line and the chassis bar. It was pinched. The pinch caused the edges to be cracked, when we moved the line it started dripping (very slowly) drops of coolant.
With the air intake and the intercooler out it wasn't too hard to get to the coolant tubes. We drained the coolant. I brought the hose to the local auto parts store and told them I needed a replacement that was high pressure and super heat resistant. It was about $40 for all the replacement lines. The wall on the hose they gave me was nearly twice as thick as the old hose, it was a lot more sturdy and you couldn't kink the hose if you tried. We simply re-routed the hose so it wasn't squished by any other lines and ran it up through one of the holes already in the car chassis bar. Now all the coolant lines are free and clear. It took us maybe an hour. Replaced all the coolant and everything seems good so far.
So my guess is to check the coolant lines as I'm pretty sure all rubber hoses will crack over time from high heat and you might just find a kink like I did.
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11-11-10, 03:11 AM
#9
i will definitely moniter the temp gauge carefully (as usually) when im driving. however, im trying not to drive (damn fd's are so tempting 
) till its fixed.
The problem seems to be around the oil filter, mayb just in front. I'll definitely post pics in the am. Wait, it is the am.. when the sun is out. I'm pretty sure its just a line.
Oh but one thing I will mention, i looked again from behind the left front wheel (cars left) and and it looked like it was about right under the motor.. maybe even was part of the housing. A place where it looked like 2 screws go but i only saw one..
Tough to explain, I will post pics tomorrow.
You guys are boss!
) till its fixed.The problem seems to be around the oil filter, mayb just in front. I'll definitely post pics in the am. Wait, it is the am.. when the sun is out. I'm pretty sure its just a line.
Oh but one thing I will mention, i looked again from behind the left front wheel (cars left) and and it looked like it was about right under the motor.. maybe even was part of the housing. A place where it looked like 2 screws go but i only saw one..
Tough to explain, I will post pics tomorrow.
You guys are boss!
11-11-10, 09:01 PM
#10
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puddles under the car can be from anywhere in that general area, as it leaks, it will drip onto several things until it reaches the lowest point and finally drip off the car. please say turbo side or non turbo side as left/right can mean anything based on orientation, and the driver side on your car may very well be the passenger side on my car if you have a rhd car.
11-12-10, 05:24 AM
#13
Right next to the oil filter, there's a coolant hose that goes into the block. The "nipple" used to connect the coolant hose to the block is plastic. Over time, that thing WILL fail. From what you're describing, I would check that first. The hose itself is visible from the top side of the car on the non-turbo side looking straight down (I believe, AC removed for me though). It will be a little left and a bit lower than the oil pedestal.
11-12-10, 11:21 PM
#14
Right next to the oil filter, there's a coolant hose that goes into the block. The "nipple" used to connect the coolant hose to the block is plastic. Over time, that thing WILL fail. From what you're describing, I would check that first. The hose itself is visible from the top side of the car on the non-turbo side looking straight down (I believe, AC removed for me though). It will be a little left and a bit lower than the oil pedestal.
11-13-10, 05:10 AM
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Another easy piece of advice for you man: when you monitor the water temp do not use the OEM temp gauge which is completely crap; search for the "linearized gauge temp" thread or buy an aftermarket gauge otherwise you will never know when you are overheating unless it's too late.
ciao!
ciao!
11-13-10, 11:53 AM
#16
Right next to the oil filter, there's a coolant hose that goes into the block. The "nipple" used to connect the coolant hose to the block is plastic. Over time, that thing WILL fail. From what you're describing, I would check that first. The hose itself is visible from the top side of the car on the non-turbo side looking straight down (I believe, AC removed for me though). It will be a little left and a bit lower than the oil pedestal.
The line running to the heater core....
That's an easy fix, just need the part.
Cause yours is RHD it allows a little more room for fiddling around in there
J.
11-13-10, 08:04 PM
#17
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Another easy piece of advice for you man: when you monitor the water temp do not use the OEM temp gauge which is completely crap; search for the "linearized gauge temp" thread or buy an aftermarket gauge otherwise you will never know when you are overheating unless it's too late.
ciao!
ciao!
11-13-10, 08:25 PM
#18
KKM I agree.. but I'm sure you are also aware that the PFC and the stock sensor read it off of two different spots... I trust the location the gauge is in, more then I trust where the PFC one is located..
but until one "fixes" the stock gauge by linearizing it... I watch both like a hawk... (it already cause one mishap for me by watching just the PFC)
J.
but until one "fixes" the stock gauge by linearizing it... I watch both like a hawk... (it already cause one mishap for me by watching just the PFC)
J.
11-13-10, 10:24 PM
#19
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yes, but it's signifcantly more convenient to just read it from the PFC, since my motor is out and my dash is apart I'll obviously be fixing this. I've never heard of someone actually overheating when the PFC reads normal but the slow-reacting stock gauge doesn't show increased temps.
11-13-10, 10:52 PM
#20
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the stock gauge has 3 readings.... frozen solid-operating temperature-molten lava.
if your gauge JUMPS to the top, you officially just blew your motor. I dont know why mazda didnt make it like a REAL temp gauge. park it. trust me. just fix it and be done with it.
something nobody else has said. the coolant temp gauge. measure the COOLANT temp. so if you have no coolant. it will appear at op temp or below. allowing your engine to run without any form of coolant until you either
a) blow it up
b) realize it and shut it down, at which point you probably already did A
if your gauge JUMPS to the top, you officially just blew your motor. I dont know why mazda didnt make it like a REAL temp gauge. park it. trust me. just fix it and be done with it.
something nobody else has said. the coolant temp gauge. measure the COOLANT temp. so if you have no coolant. it will appear at op temp or below. allowing your engine to run without any form of coolant until you either
a) blow it up
b) realize it and shut it down, at which point you probably already did A
11-14-10, 12:24 AM
#21
I am confident I have never over heated. I always monitor my gauge and not once has it budged after reaching op. temp. I still have stock gauge but i am already looking into a new one. Do I just need to replace the thermostat with a "linearized" one or the entire gauge/ system?
Sorry about the huge delay on pics. Its the weekend and i insist on sleeping in till 3 everyday, and the sun starts going down at like 430 so by the time i get up, shower, eat.. its already almost dark out. I'll post asap.
Just a question though.. How do you actually know if you've blown your motor? just poor performance? Also, is there an easy way to tell if the leak IS actually in my motor? I'm currently thinking/ hoping no but since I don't know the precise location, it's always a possibility.
EDIT: I'm thinking (since I saw it on another thread) applying some pressure to the cooling system would be a good way to find the leak.. Can I do this by rigging something up to hook up to the rad cap opening place and using an air compressor? How much pressure would you guys recommend? (assuming this is in fact a good idea)
Sorry about the huge delay on pics. Its the weekend and i insist on sleeping in till 3 everyday, and the sun starts going down at like 430 so by the time i get up, shower, eat.. its already almost dark out. I'll post asap.
Just a question though.. How do you actually know if you've blown your motor? just poor performance? Also, is there an easy way to tell if the leak IS actually in my motor? I'm currently thinking/ hoping no but since I don't know the precise location, it's always a possibility.
EDIT: I'm thinking (since I saw it on another thread) applying some pressure to the cooling system would be a good way to find the leak.. Can I do this by rigging something up to hook up to the rad cap opening place and using an air compressor? How much pressure would you guys recommend? (assuming this is in fact a good idea)
Last edited by Mitchocalypse; 11-14-10 at 12:26 AM. Reason: Add content
11-14-10, 02:53 AM
#22
snap-on makes a $350 tool to pressure test coolant systems... (friend of mine is a HD tech, he has most those nice tools:P) I don't think you blew your motor, as a you have only given the symptom of leaking coolant... If the engine is blown is would exhibit many more negative symptoms...
J.
J.
11-17-10, 02:53 AM
#24
Found this on another leak thread (just a second ago)
To whomever made / posted this.. thank you dearly. I want one of these for every system in my car.
At first when I was trying to scout out the leak, I had no clue where to look. Had no clue what was coolant line, what was wires etc etc. This is ownage. Like I said, I want one for every system in my car to frame and hang up in my room. I will pay top dollar.
I'm pretty sure (90%) that my leak is right after the TB part (i'm assuming Throttle Body?? seems right to me) There seems to be little clamps at a certain point which could have very well led me to a week of misery.. (yeah, yeah, i know.. just wait till she blows..)
I am so excited to go take a look tomorrow now that I somewhat know what i'm looking for.
I should start making a tab of how much this site saves me. Potentially a few hundred bucks for sure. I'm like a child right now, I wanna go look but i can;t!
EDIT: one thing I should ask is is this coolant line bigge or smaller? just so i know exactly what to find.. http://media.photobucket.com/image/r...n/IMG_0061.jpg found that pic.. can anyone point it out? or if you have a better picture, all the better.
Thank you guys so much!
Last edit.. found it http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=h...t:429,r:17,s:0
Funny.. that is the same hose i suspected..
Last edited by Mitchocalypse; 11-17-10 at 03:19 AM.
11-17-10, 02:49 PM
#25
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lightning in a world of thunder is also linked in the faqs, congrats on finding the source of the leak, its not such a hard fix, just be careful you don't knock any of the vacuum hoses loose