Xeros

Has anyone bought an oil cooler from ebay and had good results with it? It seems pretty decent, the 30 row ones don't look too bad.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...category=35580

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

You do realize you can't just unplug the stock one and then plug that one in right?

You'll need to:

1. Create mounting brackets (stock ones won't work)
2. Create ducting
3. Purchase Thermostat
4. Find a location to mount the T-stat
5. Purchase "correct" oil line fittings and new lines

Also, I'm not sure how that one will fit in there. It gets real tricky trying to get the proper mounting and position for the AN fittings on anything larger than a 19-Row (which is why the upgraded kits can be worth the money).

maxcooper

That eBay one doesn't have AN10 fittings, either. It does look like a Mocal cooler. It could be a knock-off, I guess. Or the picture has nothing to do with the cooler you get, which might be the case since the fittings on it don't match the description.

Anyway, the cost of the cooler element is not the main cost in a kit.

-Max

SPOautos

It could also be like the Ebay IC I saw that when you looked inside the tubes they were flat inside with no turbulators hahahaha

Stephen

Xeros

no no I knwo that I need all the fittings and what not, I was wondering baou thte coole rit self.

rynberg

Yeah, and we're telling you that the cost of the cooler is a small percentage of the price of a kit. Lines and fittings will cost significantly more than the cooler itself, especially if you don't get things right the first time.

Think of it this way, your entire oil supply goes through that cooler. Now do you want to buy a cheap POS for any of these parts or do things right?

It's not hard to see how these cars get such a bad reliability rep when people are buying cheap-*** parts off of Ebay to use in system-critical applications.

Xeros

This kind of a side queston that I was pondering when I wa slooking at this, but has anyone run an oil cooler straight from the turbo into the oil system, or is that how the R1 models are set up? I don't know how the duals on the R1s are set up but it doesn't seem to be too bad of an idea, to run a 19-25 row oil cooler straight to the turbo would it not?

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

I'm just saying that if you are after to save money verse purchasing a kit, that's not really going to happen unless you consider your time of fabrication meaningless/costless. If you don't consider your time meaningless/costless, then don't cheap out and get a Mocal Oil Cooler (something tried and true). Here's my Mocal 19-Row (with T-Stat) that will be going in:

http://mahjik.homestead.com/files/FD...8/DSCF0078.jpg

rynberg

What would pump the oil? What point would that serve?

The oil enters the engine from the oil filter pedestal, some goes into the pan and some goes directly to the turbos/OMP, all of that gets dumped back into the pan and PUMPED out by the oil pump to the coolers. The engine is heating up far more oil than the turbos are, volume-wise.

Xeros

where did you get it and for how much, looks exactly like the ebay one. Ebay can't always be that bad you know? I got a short shifter for 40 off ebay andf it works wonders. a hub and wheel as well. Brand name isn't always the best and we all know it. Sometimes there are products out there with no brand name that are good.

Xeros

Alright thanks for makiing it clear Rynberg.

rynberg

A short shifter isn't a system-critical part.

While I agree with you that a brand name doesn't guarantee a better product, I think that argument more typically applies to things like blue jeans.

Mocal, Setrab, and Earl's are RACE-proven parts. They work, they last, and you can count on them. Like I said earlier, ALL of your engine oil goes through that cooler.

EDIT -- Holy crap, I just checked out the cooler you were talking about....no AN fittings and it doesn't cost much less than a REAL oil cooler. Yikes.

You want to fab up your own oil cooler kit (which I don't think you should do, given your lack of knowledge about all that's involved), you need to be looking at these:

http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLin...s/EPP/EPP.html
http://store.summitracing.com/defaul...h.asp&N=400041
http://www.bakerprecision.com/setrab.htm

fastcarfreak

Dont let these guys discourage you from doing something on your own. I am planning on making a big single oil cooler kit for myself. The only thing you really need to do yourself is making some mounting brackets. Its not that hard to make some brackets that will hold together well. Im willing to bet you wouldnt even have to have anything custom fabricated. The rest of the stuff is pretty easy to do. You just need to be sure you purchase the right size and shape fittings for the job. As for the oil cooler, I cant see it having any problems. Its a basic heat exchanger. They all do typically the same thing with very small differences in fin effectiveness and efficiency (just make sure you use a metal with good conductivity like aluminum. There are a ton of companies that make oil coolers for a great price. Mocal although is one of the best, it is also one of the most expensive (190 dollars 25 row). I was thinking about purchasing one of the B&M oil coolers. B&M makes some good stuff, so i figured i would give them a shot. I would prolly purchase a good thermostat though because you dont want your thermostat shitting the bed while your driving hard. An oil temp gauge is also a great idea.

Adam

Xeros

Wait but that oil is pumped into the turbo right? Wouldn't it help to cool the oil that goes into the turbo?

Xeros

Peopel though I was trying to fill too big of shoes when I was rebuilding the entire car...proved those guys wrong seeing as how it runs a wondefrul 10-8-10 rightnow minus some of the fine tunning that will need ot be done with a PFC and wide band which I will do on my own (no I have never done it but there is plenty of accurate and reliable info on this forum and plenty of people to help in the proper direction). Anyone that wants to can properly educate them selves on any subject given thier will power and patience. And that is exactly what I am here to do on this forum ask question, research, ponder, learn and experiment. the only other question I have is. Why are all the other AAfter market coolers top feed un liek our stock bottom feed ones? I've seen the RE kit and it feeds oil into the coolers form the above. Is it hwo they are set up internally? Apparently if RE doesn't flip them upside down that obviously means there is a reason you can't. Can anyone explain?

technonovice

Its pricey to have them cleaned and reconditioned too.

fastcarfreak

The reason stock oil coolers are bottom feed is because they have a banjo type fitting, which has a very low profile. Typically with AN fittings, they stick down too far and people dont want to chance bottoming out because they sit pretty low. Where they are feed to really doesnt make much difference. Top feed is just typically easier to work with when mounting because you dont have to worry about clearance.

Adam

rynberg

SUUURRRREEE. That's ALL you have to do. The fact that that's all you think there is to it, shows that you don't know what's involved with making your own kit.

fastcarfreak

You care to enlighten me on what else there is to do?

lets see:
purchase correct fittings, adapters and braided hoses
have fittings mounted to hoses (cut to size of course)
build bracket and mount Oil cooler
connect the system together

oil line goes from feed line and connects to thermostat
then from thermostat to oil cooler
then from oil cooler back to thermostat
then to return line

Typically ducting isnt an issue with these larger oil cooler. They tend to fill up the opening quite well on an rx7.

Am i forgetting to do a little dance or something?

Adam

Xeros

HAHAHA

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

If you don't track your car, then yes ducting isn't an issue (and neither is installing a larger oil cooler either).

maxcooper

I annotated the list...

lets see:
purchase correct fittings, adapters and braided hoses research, research, research, cha-ching, cha-ching, cha-ching, don't forget the thermostat
have fittings mounted to hoses (cut to size of course) ouch! crap! damn hoses!
build bracket and mount Oil cooler grr... darn PS, AC, headlight, snip, snip, drive to hardware store... crap, need to mount thermostat, too
connect the system together crap, need to remake that hose, grr... wrench too long

I thought the kits were expensive, too, since the coolers are relatively cheap. However, once you add up all the hardware and throw in a few hours of development time, I think they turn out to be a pretty good deal. It takes a long time to install any kit because you have to remove a lot of stuff, so if you want to get done in one day, a kit is a good idea.

-Max

fastcarfreak

yes, ducting is always a good ideal, its just not required. If i tracked my car I would almost definately go with a dual oil cooler setup, and i would definately add ducting. Because I am street driven, drag raced once in a while, and making over 400 at the wheels, i feel a bigger oil cooler would definately be benificial to me. I dont feel the need for ducting because i cant see the oil temps rising very high in my application. Also, With a custom setup made to your specific likings, you can always add another cooler and or add ducting.

Ive priced everything out and it is looking like i am going to be spending somewhere in the 350 dollar range for a big single cooler setup. Im also considering the fact that sometimes things dont work out perfectly so i may need to spend additional to get everything perfect. For this i figured another 100 dollars tops.

So for between 350 and 450 dollars i am getting a more then capable setup for oil cooling. This is a hell of a lot better then the 800+ dollar kits that are being sold. I could use the best of everything and still get out a rediculous amount cheaper then purchasing a kit. If i decide that its not enough cooling, the cost to add another cooler is less then 200 dollars.

Adam

scotty305

iTrader: (2)

1. If you're going to be giving advice on something that you've never done yourself, you should really make that known. For you to say "here's how I did it, you should try this..." would be helpful, or maybe "good luck, I'm planning on doing this someday also..." but what you've done here seems pretty misleading to me. At the same time, if someone needs to ask how to build something via internet forums, that's a bad scene in the first place.


2. A good project requires more than just good parts. What if your project fails completely due to something as simple as a sloppy weld, or a less-than-ideal bracket placement that puts vibration pressure on a small area of piping, causing it to fatigue and split? Most of the kits that are sold have some sort of a history or track record behind them. It's pretty safe to say that if 50 people have used someone else's kit over the previous 4 years with no problems, you'll be pretty safe also.


3. While it would be nice to save $300-500 on an oil cooler, don't forget that it's a crucial part of your $3000-5000 engine. This is no shift **** or steering wheel. If it doesn't quite work right, you can expect some serious problems. Imagine the worst possible failure involving an oil cooler. Let's say you're doing 80+mph going around a sweeper, at high engine rpm's. Your oil cooler fails and dumps oil all over your tires, causing the car to lose control. Your motor and turbos are destroyed from lack of lubrication. Injuries occur due to high speeds and guardrail contact (or worse yet, a long drop without guardrails). Are you 110% sure that you're a good enough fabricator to avoid such a failure?

-s-

fastcarfreak

The likeliness of the oil lines or oil cooler itself splitting due to fatigue failure is so small its highly unlikely. Im an engineering student and have taken many material science classes, and have learned quite a bit. So im not just throwing this stuff together without thinking about what could possibly happen. If anything was to fail it would more then likely be the mounting brackets, in which case you wouldnt have such a catastrophic failure, unless you left it broken in which case it would apply pressure to different places on the system.

I would say that the stock system would be more likely to fail then an aftermarket system with all braided lines. The old rubber lines from the factory oil cooler could split too.

Cooling systems arent exactly complex systems. There really isnt much involved. You just have to make sure everything is fitted correctly.