searched nothing found, ebay oil coolers
05-10-05, 12:26 AM
#26
3rd motors a charm I hope
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Originally Posted by maxcooper
I annotated the list...
lets see:
purchase correct fittings, adapters and braided hoses research, research, research, cha-ching, cha-ching, cha-ching, don't forget the thermostat
have fittings mounted to hoses (cut to size of course) ouch! crap! damn hoses!
build bracket and mount Oil cooler grr... darn PS, AC, headlight, snip, snip, drive to hardware store... crap, need to mount thermostat, too
connect the system together crap, need to remake that hose, grr... wrench too long
I thought the kits were expensive, too, since the coolers are relatively cheap. However, once you add up all the hardware and throw in a few hours of development time, I think they turn out to be a pretty good deal. It takes a long time to install any kit because you have to remove a lot of stuff, so if you want to get done in one day, a kit is a good idea.
-Max
lets see:
purchase correct fittings, adapters and braided hoses research, research, research, cha-ching, cha-ching, cha-ching, don't forget the thermostat
have fittings mounted to hoses (cut to size of course) ouch! crap! damn hoses!
build bracket and mount Oil cooler grr... darn PS, AC, headlight, snip, snip, drive to hardware store... crap, need to mount thermostat, too
connect the system together crap, need to remake that hose, grr... wrench too long
I thought the kits were expensive, too, since the coolers are relatively cheap. However, once you add up all the hardware and throw in a few hours of development time, I think they turn out to be a pretty good deal. It takes a long time to install any kit because you have to remove a lot of stuff, so if you want to get done in one day, a kit is a good idea.
-Max
So it takes a little work and patience. You saying you dont like to get your hands dirty once in a while? Rome wasn't built in a day!!
05-10-05, 12:55 AM
#27
Rotary Enthusiast
Just get a rotary extreme oil cooler kit, it's complete, easy to install and well designed. If you buy the ebay oil cooler, and add thermostat, an fitting, lines, the cost add up quickly.
05-10-05, 01:05 AM
#28
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Originally Posted by fastcarfreak
Ive priced everything out and it is looking like i am going to be spending somewhere in the 350 dollar range for a big single cooler setup. Im also considering the fact that sometimes things dont work out perfectly so i may need to spend additional to get everything perfect. For this i figured another 100 dollars tops.
A good cooler is about $180. A good t-stat is about $100. That is at $280 already without any of the lines or fittings. Guess how much quality swivel AN fittings are -- $25-30 EACH. Well, you need a minimum of SIX of those, plus special adapters to connect to the stock oil lines or outlets. Those are $15 and up and you'll need two. Well, now we're up to $490 or so. Oh wait, now we have to buy braided lines. Well, that will be AT LEAST $100 or more. Now, the total is up to over $600 and we haven't even bought any AN wrenches, or any of the hardware yet. Figure about $50 for good quality bolts and some sheet metal to fab up brackets.
Grand total = a MINIMUM of $650. And this doesn't count any of the time spent trying to route the lines and fab up the CORRECT length of hose. Any mistakes = even more dollars and time down. Plus my figures don't even account for how you are plumbing in the feed from the oil pan/block to the thermostat. Even Crooked Willow didn't do a good job with that one. Rotary Extreme has a good solution but they use custom adapters which aren't available to general customers.
Put away the ego and listen to people who have been there and done this already. My above list of items and total cost is very realistic (and doesn't include shipping or tax!). Like I said, you don't know what's involved and are being a smart *** to people who have actually done an aftermarket cooler setup.
Last edited by rynberg; 05-10-05 at 01:11 AM.
05-10-05, 02:43 AM
#29
3rd motors a charm I hope
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So you have installed an already made oil cooler setup.... Does this make you an expert? I dont think so. Here is a price list of all the parts that are needed for a good single cooler setup:
AN flare to metric adapter (18mm x 1.5 to 10 AN) 2 x 8.97 = 17.94
10 AN straight hose fitting 6 x 9.49 = 56.94
150 degree 10 AN hose fitting 2 x 31.31 = 62.62
Mocal oil thermostat (10 AN) 1 x 89.99 = 89.99
10 AN braide line (4 feet tops) 4 x 6.57 = 26.28
Total = $253.77
Now add your choice of oil cooler:
Mocal 19 row AN 10 1 x 147.25 = 147.25
Tax is only charged to local buyers
Shipping cant be more then say $25
Total = $426.02
This is for all the BEST parts that come from Racerpartswholesale's catalog (a well known company)
Even if we throw in your rediculous figure for "good quality bolts" we are only up to $475. This is around 400+ dollars less then your typical kit. This leaves a lot of room for odds and end. This is also for the best product in the catalog. You can cut price even more if you wanted to. You can get other good quality oil coolers for less then 100 dollars. You can get a thermostat for less then 50 dollars. You could use cheaper fittings. You could use much better priced hardware. Also if you look on Ebay you can get a bunch of this stuff for much less then what it would cost from the catalog.
Im by no means knocking pre made kits (I think they are great for most people). Its just that some people dont want to drop almost a 1000 dollars on something that isnt making their car's performance better (especially after so many other reliability mods) or look better. Granted oil cooling is an important part of your motor, 1000 dollars is a pretty big drop at one time.
You can keep bashing me, but my "imaginary" setup is absolutely no different then the pre made setup with the exception of some mounting brackets and ducting (some kits dont come with ducting BTW) which can be made pretty easily.
Adam
AN flare to metric adapter (18mm x 1.5 to 10 AN) 2 x 8.97 = 17.94
10 AN straight hose fitting 6 x 9.49 = 56.94
150 degree 10 AN hose fitting 2 x 31.31 = 62.62
Mocal oil thermostat (10 AN) 1 x 89.99 = 89.99
10 AN braide line (4 feet tops) 4 x 6.57 = 26.28
Total = $253.77
Now add your choice of oil cooler:
Mocal 19 row AN 10 1 x 147.25 = 147.25
Tax is only charged to local buyers
Shipping cant be more then say $25
Total = $426.02
This is for all the BEST parts that come from Racerpartswholesale's catalog (a well known company)
Even if we throw in your rediculous figure for "good quality bolts" we are only up to $475. This is around 400+ dollars less then your typical kit. This leaves a lot of room for odds and end. This is also for the best product in the catalog. You can cut price even more if you wanted to. You can get other good quality oil coolers for less then 100 dollars. You can get a thermostat for less then 50 dollars. You could use cheaper fittings. You could use much better priced hardware. Also if you look on Ebay you can get a bunch of this stuff for much less then what it would cost from the catalog.
Im by no means knocking pre made kits (I think they are great for most people). Its just that some people dont want to drop almost a 1000 dollars on something that isnt making their car's performance better (especially after so many other reliability mods) or look better. Granted oil cooling is an important part of your motor, 1000 dollars is a pretty big drop at one time.
You can keep bashing me, but my "imaginary" setup is absolutely no different then the pre made setup with the exception of some mounting brackets and ducting (some kits dont come with ducting BTW) which can be made pretty easily.
Adam
05-10-05, 03:38 AM
#30
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I can tell you right now your parts list will not work.
First of all, you absolutely must use swivel fittings for the angled pieces, and you cannot properly route the hose and locate the t-stat with the fittings you have selected. The fittings you will actually need to route everything properly will cost more than you have allotted.
Secondly, you will use a LOT more than four feet of hose, LOL. Unless there is some routing I am missing, you will need at least six feet, and the hose price you have listed is cheap-*** hose and I wouldn't use it. As noted above, your fittings will not work, 10AN braided hose will NOT bend much at all.
Finally, why would you go through the trouble of all this and only install a 19-row? With a cooler that small, you will NEED ducting. You have to step up to a 25-row to really fill the opening and reduce the need for ducting.
Your comment about using the "best parts" is not true. The prices you listed get you basic quality fittings and hose. Feel free to use that if you want. Also, my "ridiculous" amount of $50 for bolts includes high grade bolts, sheet metal for fabbing up brackets, zip ties, AN wrenches, etc. You will use most of that up fairly quickly.
I'm not bashing you, I'm trying to point out that coming up with your own setup is not as cheap or as easy as you THINK it is. The point is, you have ZERO experience doing this, and several of us do. We are all telling you the same thing. If you don't want to listen, that's fine. But when you finally attempt your oil cooler "upgrade", I think you should be man enough to post your final costs and time put in. If you can do it for the amount you posted and in a reasonable time, I'll be the first to congratulate you.
First of all, you absolutely must use swivel fittings for the angled pieces, and you cannot properly route the hose and locate the t-stat with the fittings you have selected. The fittings you will actually need to route everything properly will cost more than you have allotted.
Secondly, you will use a LOT more than four feet of hose, LOL. Unless there is some routing I am missing, you will need at least six feet, and the hose price you have listed is cheap-*** hose and I wouldn't use it. As noted above, your fittings will not work, 10AN braided hose will NOT bend much at all.
Finally, why would you go through the trouble of all this and only install a 19-row? With a cooler that small, you will NEED ducting. You have to step up to a 25-row to really fill the opening and reduce the need for ducting.
Your comment about using the "best parts" is not true. The prices you listed get you basic quality fittings and hose. Feel free to use that if you want. Also, my "ridiculous" amount of $50 for bolts includes high grade bolts, sheet metal for fabbing up brackets, zip ties, AN wrenches, etc. You will use most of that up fairly quickly.
I'm not bashing you, I'm trying to point out that coming up with your own setup is not as cheap or as easy as you THINK it is. The point is, you have ZERO experience doing this, and several of us do. We are all telling you the same thing. If you don't want to listen, that's fine. But when you finally attempt your oil cooler "upgrade", I think you should be man enough to post your final costs and time put in. If you can do it for the amount you posted and in a reasonable time, I'll be the first to congratulate you.
05-10-05, 10:15 AM
#32
3rd motors a charm I hope
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Originally Posted by rynberg
I can tell you right now your parts list will not work.
First of all, you absolutely must use swivel fittings for the angled pieces, and you cannot properly route the hose and locate the t-stat with the fittings you have selected. The fittings you will actually need to route everything properly will cost more than you have allotted.
Secondly, you will use a LOT more than four feet of hose, LOL. Unless there is some routing I am missing, you will need at least six feet, and the hose price you have listed is cheap-*** hose and I wouldn't use it. As noted above, your fittings will not work, 10AN braided hose will NOT bend much at all.
Finally, why would you go through the trouble of all this and only install a 19-row? With a cooler that small, you will NEED ducting. You have to step up to a 25-row to really fill the opening and reduce the need for ducting.
Your comment about using the "best parts" is not true. The prices you listed get you basic quality fittings and hose. Feel free to use that if you want. Also, my "ridiculous" amount of $50 for bolts includes high grade bolts, sheet metal for fabbing up brackets, zip ties, AN wrenches, etc. You will use most of that up fairly quickly.
I'm not bashing you, I'm trying to point out that coming up with your own setup is not as cheap or as easy as you THINK it is. The point is, you have ZERO experience doing this, and several of us do. We are all telling you the same thing. If you don't want to listen, that's fine. But when you finally attempt your oil cooler "upgrade", I think you should be man enough to post your final costs and time put in. If you can do it for the amount you posted and in a reasonable time, I'll be the first to congratulate you.
First of all, you absolutely must use swivel fittings for the angled pieces, and you cannot properly route the hose and locate the t-stat with the fittings you have selected. The fittings you will actually need to route everything properly will cost more than you have allotted.
Secondly, you will use a LOT more than four feet of hose, LOL. Unless there is some routing I am missing, you will need at least six feet, and the hose price you have listed is cheap-*** hose and I wouldn't use it. As noted above, your fittings will not work, 10AN braided hose will NOT bend much at all.
Finally, why would you go through the trouble of all this and only install a 19-row? With a cooler that small, you will NEED ducting. You have to step up to a 25-row to really fill the opening and reduce the need for ducting.
Your comment about using the "best parts" is not true. The prices you listed get you basic quality fittings and hose. Feel free to use that if you want. Also, my "ridiculous" amount of $50 for bolts includes high grade bolts, sheet metal for fabbing up brackets, zip ties, AN wrenches, etc. You will use most of that up fairly quickly.
I'm not bashing you, I'm trying to point out that coming up with your own setup is not as cheap or as easy as you THINK it is. The point is, you have ZERO experience doing this, and several of us do. We are all telling you the same thing. If you don't want to listen, that's fine. But when you finally attempt your oil cooler "upgrade", I think you should be man enough to post your final costs and time put in. If you can do it for the amount you posted and in a reasonable time, I'll be the first to congratulate you.
The prices i listed was for the swivel fittings. You can add another 40 dollars if you want for the price of the 25 row coolers too, it still doesnt add up too the other kits. There is always a chance to use more parts then intended. The only point im trying to make is, If you go part for part, There really is no difference in the kits and a custom setup. If you dont mind sourcing all the parts, and spending a little time making brackets its well worth it. If it wasnt worth the time, then those companies wouldnt be selling the kits. They do have to build the kits too, and im willing to bet they dont mass produce these. They prolly just have a ton of parts readily available and build to order.
I think I may have decided to even make a dual cooler setup, with 2 smaller (mocal 19 row sized) coolers.
05-10-05, 10:27 AM
#33
fastcarfreak,
No one is saying that it's not "doable". If you read my original post, I mention that you have to put a price on your own time. A single oil cooler upgrade will probably run about $500 (give or take) when done custom. Kits run about $800-900 for the single cooler upgrade. Depending on the person, their time may be better spent doing other things that better suit them. Not everyone shares the same passion for fabricating brackets and such for custom installs.
The thing that people are pointing out in this thread is that if someone has to ask if a cheap oil cooler is going to be good for a custom project, maybe those people shouldn't be looking to do a custom project.
I'm doing my own custom oil cooler upgrade, but yet you don't see me asking "what do I need to copy (insert company here)'s oil cooler upgrade?". I do my own research, find out what I need and get started. If anyone is looking to do a custom project, they need to start by doing their own research as to what is needed.
Simplifying the process saying "This is all you need to do it" really doesn't help as what is simple for you, may not be for someone else. Everyone is different.
No one is saying that it's not "doable". If you read my original post, I mention that you have to put a price on your own time. A single oil cooler upgrade will probably run about $500 (give or take) when done custom. Kits run about $800-900 for the single cooler upgrade. Depending on the person, their time may be better spent doing other things that better suit them. Not everyone shares the same passion for fabricating brackets and such for custom installs.
The thing that people are pointing out in this thread is that if someone has to ask if a cheap oil cooler is going to be good for a custom project, maybe those people shouldn't be looking to do a custom project.
I'm doing my own custom oil cooler upgrade, but yet you don't see me asking "what do I need to copy (insert company here)'s oil cooler upgrade?". I do my own research, find out what I need and get started. If anyone is looking to do a custom project, they need to start by doing their own research as to what is needed.
Simplifying the process saying "This is all you need to do it" really doesn't help as what is simple for you, may not be for someone else. Everyone is different.
05-10-05, 11:03 AM
#34
RX-7 Bad Ass
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The likeliness of the oil lines or oil cooler itself splitting due to fatigue failure is so small its highly unlikely. Im an engineering student and have taken many material science classes, and have learned quite a bit. So im not just throwing this stuff together without thinking about what could possibly happen. If anything was to fail it would more then likely be the mounting brackets, in which case you wouldnt have such a catastrophic failure, unless you left it broken in which case it would apply pressure to different places on the system.
Ask any seasoned FC owner - stock oil cooler lines on FC's all blow at around 100,000 miles or so. They will typically start leaking a bit, but from leaking to complete failure is around a week. I emptied the contents of my oil pan in a few SECONDS, but fortunately Mazda thought to include a buzzer to warn of imminent danger - I shut off before damage was done.
So, I replaced the lines with Mazdatrix's braided stainless lines. Nice, high quality, good fit, etc. They lasted a year - Mazdatrix didn't coat the lines or put any sort of abrasion resistant material on the outside, and the lines rubbed against each other and failed. I bought another set of lines and properly insulated the two to solve the problem. Braided stainless is VERY abrasive and will eat through all kinds of stuff given time - radiator hoses, wiring, brackets, even each other. This also applies to any oil cooler kits out there - you have to be SUPER careful with braided stainless.
Also, before you attempt to do ANY mods on your oil system, GET AN OIL TEMP GAUGE. Find out what temps you're running and if you even really need to upgrade the coolers - the temps should be close to your water temps. You'd be surprised how easy it is to go backwards - something fouled with the installation (like a bad thermostat) causes your temps to go up, not down. This also holds true for ANYONE looking to upgrade your oil coolers - don't do it unless you KNOW it needs to be done, and can PROVE the difference it made. Fortunately for us Mazda did a pretty good job with the stock oil cooling system so we typically don't have to concern ourselves with it.
Dale
Last edited by DaleClark; 05-10-05 at 11:06 AM.
05-10-05, 11:09 AM
#35
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Originally Posted by DaleClark
Fortunately for us Mazda did a pretty good job with the stock oil cooling system so we typically don't have to concern ourselves with it.
Dale
Dale
Maybe for your R2, but the poor base/touring models with only one cooler are undercooled for any kind of performance driving. Trust me, seeing 260F oil temps post-cooler on the track on a 50F day is NOT a good feeling...
05-10-05, 11:24 AM
#36
3rd motors a charm I hope
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Originally Posted by rynberg
Maybe for your R2, but the poor base/touring models with only one cooler are undercooled for any kind of performance driving. Trust me, seeing 260F oil temps post-cooler on the track on a 50F day is NOT a good feeling...
05-10-05, 02:36 PM
#37
RX-7 Bad Ass
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Originally Posted by rynberg
Maybe for your R2, but the poor base/touring models with only one cooler are undercooled for any kind of performance driving. Trust me, seeing 260F oil temps post-cooler on the track on a 50F day is NOT a good feeling...
Dale
06-13-05, 08:45 PM
#38
I'm sorry wha?
Thread Starter
I'm bringin this up from the dead just once more to ask rynberg what kind of AN hose you recommend for this type of project? I promise to post my tiem spent and money spent when I finish this. I have a machine shop at my disposal so making mounting brakets shoudln't be all that hard. I am going to have to make my own to stay with in my budget range for this summer. I have taken into account everything what everyone has said and I will take it all to heart but yes it will be much cheaper for me to fab up my own stuff time and money wise. sorry to say. At first I was goign to trash this idea becasue I figured temps this sumemr woudl be much liek the last but much to my approval they are probably gunna be much hotter, and I am goign to track it so I am just goign to go and make em to make sure my engine doesn't blow
Last edited by Xeros; 06-13-05 at 08:53 PM.
06-13-05, 08:57 PM
#39
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Originally Posted by Xeros
I'm bringin this up from the dead just once more to ask rynberg what kind of AN hose you recommend for this type of project?
Top choices for hose would be:
*Earl's Perform-o-Flex (best)
*Aeroquip stainless hose
*Earl's Auto-Flex
Hose fittings:
*Earl's swivel-seal
06-13-05, 09:39 PM
#40
I'm sorry wha?
Thread Starter
Also, Ive never seen how the dual oil coolers are set up on the R1 and R2 models, could you explain how they are routed? Does one oil cooler connect to the next and then the line comes right back form the second cooler back into the engine? would Would 8-AN being going too small?
06-13-05, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Xeros
Also, Ive never seen how the dual oil coolers are set up on the R1 and R2 models, could you explain how they are routed? Does one oil cooler connect to the next and then the line comes right back form the second cooler back into the engine? would Would 8-AN being going too small?
*block to t-stat
*t-stat to driver's side cooler
*drivers's to passenger's side cooler
*passenger's side cooler to t-stat
*t-stat to oil filter pedestal
Yes, 8-AN is too small, use 10-AN.
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