Steve Erwin

Hi I'm new to the RX7 club forums. I need some info on the various series RX7's, I need to know the major mechanical differences between the models. Sorry if this has been covered before but my searches came up with nothing specific.

The reason I ask is because I am thinking of buying a RX7 in the near future.
I've read alot about the reliability of the FD ( specificially the early S6's) but not much on the 7 and 8. I want to know if the issues the early models were fixed with the later models or if they still suffer these problems.

I've allways had a soft spot for the FD but have been concerned with their reliability. My current 500hp wrx is really giving me the ***** atm, its one thing after the other breaking. I've had it for 4 years now and its time for a change.

In Australia the S6 and 7 were locally delivered and the s8's are available as imports. I'll probably be looking for a later model S7 or early S8, what are the differences between these besides the obvious styling, interior ect.

The other car i'm considering is the Nissan S15 . The S15 is a great allround package, low weight, excelent reliability and modification potential. They are around the same price as a good S6 here. I do prefer the styling and rarity of the FD though.

Sorry for the long rant, I'd really apreciate some feedback.

Jacob.
Down under.

cruiser

If you dont like to fix things, get S15 instead.
S6 was first FD model rated from 239 (EU) to 255hp (JP, USA, AU).
S7 came with 265hp, S8 with 280hp (and better turbos). Interior and paint is usually bad in 92-93FDs. As you live in .au, I would suggest you get as new FD as possible.
Later models also have better ECU and "rats nest" and bigger 17" stock wheels.

Good luck.

TT_Rex_7

So how did you come up with the conclusion that they're better?

-Alex

scotty305

iTrader: (2)

Most of the people on this forum are from the USA , which didn't receive any RX-7's after the 1995 model year. I would recommend buying the newest one you can afford, there were a lot of updates to the 1999+ models from what I understand.

Again, enthusiasts from North America can't tell you much about the S15 Silvia either, as we didn't get them here. I've driven an S14 non-turbo, and there is no comparison; the FD3S is pure sports-car and the Nissan is just a coupe that's trying to be sporty. Almost every thing that will matter on a racetrack is superior on the RX-7.

I owned a 2000 Impreza 2.5 (non-turbo). It was a great car, but again didn't have the same sporty feel as the Mazda. The front suspension and open-differential made it understeer pretty badly, even to the point of wearing tires unevenly. And the RX-7 has a better weight balance and lower center-of-gravity as well. The Scooby is a ton of fun off-road however; I sometimes feel guilty just letting the RX-7 go for too long without washing it.


My advice would be to test-drive them both if possible, and buy what you can afford.


-s-

PS, Are there ANY cool cars that OZ didn't get? You guys seem to have all the cool Japanese stuff available to you, can you get some of the interesting American and European sportscars such as the Corvette Z06 and Lotus Elise?

SpeedKing

iTrader: (4)

The later cars came w/ updates (more power, bigger wheels, better brakes, etc.) and fixes (lack of precat, etc).

http://www.rx7.net.nz/newrx7.htm

jeffrored92

Hey Dude, good to see another Aussie in this forum.

Where you located, I'm in Perth.

Cannington autowholesale are a dealer in Perth who import series 8 RX-7's. I got my series 6 there because some dude traded it in to take out a series 8. They currently have three series 8 in stock, and I think they sell all their cars with a three year unlimited km warranty, provided by a third party insurance agency or something. I haven't claimed yet so can't tell ya how good it is. Check them out at http://www.autowholesale.com.au

If I had the extra dough I'd sell my 93 and get the red 2001 with 36'000 km's.

EDIT: If your going to mod the baby, I doubt the warranty will be of any consequence to you - it will be voided pretty quick I'm keeping mine stock for now, except for the downpipe, which came out of an imported series 8.

TT_Rex_7

I know they came with updates, but I fail to see how the turbo's are better. Yea they was updated, but the only reason the car made more power was the lack of a precat and they turned the boost up. That doesn't make the turbos better.

-Alex

jeffrored92

The turbos were manufactured differently. From what I read, the interior of the turbines/compressors were coated with an abradable resin. The turbos were then spun at high speed, sheering away the excess, reducing the clearance between the blades and the housing, and thus increasing efficiency.

(in a nutshell - the turbos don't need to spin as fast to create the same boost as the older turbos, all other things being equal. And that would theoretically mean a longer lifespan)

TT_Rex_7

Not really sure on the whole backround that you just stated, but what I do know is that the 93-95 turbos seem to handle boost better, therefore being able to create more power. Everyone rants and raves about the "99 spec" turbos, yet you can make just as much power with the older style. They may last longer, but not by much i'm sure. Also, From what I understand, the upgraded turbos are only on a specific model.

-Alex

DaiOni

First of all: no precat on a JDM FD - ever (91-02), full stop. File that one away for future reference.

99-turbos have marginally quicker spool-up. But the 280-hp cars have lots of additions - the y-pipe change brings the car up to the JDM type IV level (265hp), then there is the compressor/seal changed turbos, more boost, a revised ecu (map and 16bit), and a free-flowing exhaust system. The 99-spec turbos are not known for their longevity.

"The later cars came w/ updates (more power, bigger wheels, better brakes, etc.) and fixes (lack of precat, etc). "

SOME s8's have all the updated bits. Not all s8's are 280hp - be careful, do your research. Not all have bigger brakes or bigger wheels, or more power. The link provided is a good resource, but flawed, as it gives general updates, but doesn't thoroughly illustrate how they applied to each model variant.

Australian s7's, appear to me, to be japanese type III's (last of the s6 types) - they are not the same as their JDM equivalents.

"S6 was first FD model rated from 239 (EU) to 255hp (JP, USA, AU)."

I'm fairly certain that the AU cars are also 239hp - I'm pretty sure that this applies to all RHD export cars.

cruiser

Do you have other info ? I thought it was common knowledge that 99spec turbos flow better due to abraidable seal. You got any other info ?

cruiser

DaiOne@ EU - 239hp cars are LHD FYI.

Steve Erwin

Thanks for the feedback ppl!

So which S8's are the 280hp models? As far as I know the RB was the base model with 265hp while the R, RZ and RS were the 280hp models. How much more reliable are the S8's compared to the early models? I live close to DYSON ROTARY, so maintainence shouldnt be a problem and I can do the basic stuff myself. Does the S8 ecu need to be changed to allow for mods(exhaust, air filter for example) Or can it compensate for the increase in airflow? From what I've read all the models use manifold pressure as the main airflow sensor and not a AFM.


Scotty305- yes we get the elise but not the Z06, dont complain you get a 2.5 STI!

Jerffored92- I'm on the Gold Coast, thanks for the link btw.

http://www.autotrader.com.au/DealerP...otoDisplay.asp
This seems over priced considering there about 25-30AU$ in japan.

http://www.rx7.net.nz/newrx7.htm - thanks for that, very helpfull.

Thanks again everyone!

Steve Erwin

http://www.rx7.net.nz/newrx7.htm - just finished reading that. The bottom article in particular has some great info. It seens the Mazda engineers have fixed most of the early models bugs for the S8. The apex seal lubrication is interesting indeed. With the new ecu, is it possible to boost it up a few psi?

neit_jnf

iTrader: (17)

The abraidable seals provide for a mechanical efficiency of 80% compared to 75% for the older turbos. This means they work less to provide the same amount of boost and heat the air less as well.

Mazda measured compressed air temperature at stock boost levels and found an aproximate 10C temperature drop before the intercooler. This also makes the intercooler work better because the air is cooler to start with.

SomeGuy_sg

http://www.j-garage.com/6110.htm
Go to the bottom of the page . And pick the year of the FD you want . It will give you a spec view of FD for that year along with different models

cruiser

I know. But someone else obviously doesnt

DaiOni

Cruiser: good point, but I was thinking of UK cars (sorry for ignoring the rest of you).

"How much more reliable are the S8's compared to the early models?"

still not issue free, and the same modifying principles apply. The big bonus is that the parts aren't 10+ years old, and that import cars never had increased heat problems due to the precat (so the engine bay has had a much easier life).

if you read any FD modifying guide in japanese magazines you will find two recurring facts about the s8s - (1) they don't handle added boost well - they have a lower 'safety buffer' due to the basic 'mods' already being in place - they have more airflow from the exhaust and the boost is already upped. It's usually stated that you can get away with a fair bit more with the older cars. (2) the upgraded turbos ('99-spec') are problematic due to the use of the abraidable seals (fitting the original turbos is not unheard of, circuit cars). This info simply hasn't filtered back to western tuners because the level of familiarity is so low (not surprising, as we never had the cars new).

"Does the S8 ecu need to be changed to allow for mods(exhaust, air filter for example)"

Buy a pfc and get it tuned, and you'll be set. Do it right from the start.

Seriously though, if you think your wrx is hell - go buy the s15 - that's the best piece of advice you'll get, trust me.

jeffrored92

On what grounds do you make this claim?

There simply isn't enough hard evidence to compare the series 8 turbos to the series 6. I believe they are more efficient, therefore lasting longer, at constant boost/flow rates. Unfortunately not many people run the same boost, let alone the same mods, so there is probably never going to be an accurate comparison. All we can do is put our faith in the Mazda engineers, and trust them to have built a better set of turbos than the earlier model.

After all - if the Mazda engineers were total schmuks then a stock series 1-5 RX-7 could outperform a stock series 6+ RX-7 right? It's all about progress........

jims6

Buy the best car you can afford. If you only can stretch 35K you can get a real nice S6

That said, S8's are definatley better, so if you have between 45-55K to spend then go for it. You wont be dissapointed.

We bought our S8 from GASSPORTSCARS.com.au (Brisbane) They have one comming in soon. 2001, 280HP, White Bathurst R.

James.

alberto_mg

fwiw, anytime you double the manufacturers output you have to expect things to break. neither the FD nor the WRX was designed/engineered with 500HP in mind.

Steve Erwin

good point Alberto mg, I guess it depends on what was over engineered from the factory. Supra for example.

JimS6 - I really want a S8, I just cant understand how overpriced they are. They sell in Japan for 25-30K $AU for immaculate low kay examples. I can't see how shipping, taxes and compliancing adds 20K to the price tag. Some one is making alot of money along the line.

jeffrored92

Yeah, probably the dealer!

Try finding an import agent, they should be able to help you find one for a token fee, not sure how much it will be. I haven't imported, but I'd say you would want to make sure the import agent has at least some experience with rotaries. There are a few import agents around, google for a bit or try the yellow pages or something.

You know, a decent S6 in Japan is dirt cheap (often under Aus$20k) but in Australia for an Australian delivered model you're lucky to see under Aus $30k. That's above the average price range as quoted by RACWA, most likely I think because there were less than 500 sold here between 1992 and 1998 and they're quite rare.

Steve Erwin

Yeah, WTF is it with ppl in AUS thinking they can get 35K for a beat up early model with 150K on the clock? There's a few for sale in my area at the moment, I went and checked out a few, not worth the asking price imo. I might try find an agent.

jeffrored92

Maybe their wife is making them sell it and they thought if they asked too much nobody would buy?

Keep us posted because if you can score a good deal importing an S8 (under Aus $40k and on the road) I may consider selling my S6 and following your lead.