mannykiller

iTrader: (93)

Whats up guys....so for the past year i've been searching for an aftermarket dual oil cooler kit that won't drain my parts money bag... I could go with the Sake-Bomb Kit....but the base kit is over a grand!! and honestly if you price each of the oil-coolers and lines individually... the total comes out to maybe 600.00... So that means we're paying an extra 500 for a thermostate or two and some light mounting hardware... Seems a little excessive to me....don't you guys think? (Correct me if i'm wrong). So my question is.. Has anyone done an aftermarket dual oil cooler kit with thermostats and lines? Thanks!!

Gringo Grande

iTrader: (97)

If you do a search there is a thread (with Excel Document) where someone took the time to source all the various parts and I believe it came out to $750 or something.

And to correct you, because being a businessman, I do feel you are somewhat wrong...you are not taking into account the cost/time associated with Sake Bomb to have parts shipped to them, the time it takes to assemble groups buys and to ship parts out, etc.

What is your time worth to you? I'ma DIY type of guy so I'd probably assemble my own kit for fun...when I look at if from a purely financial perspective, the time it would take for me to order all the parts and have them shipped to me, technically I'm losing money over the cost of ordering a by all accounts high quality kit for $1100.

Personally I believe your post is inaccurate...if you are that unhappy with their prices, then by all means source your own but don't publicly complain about the price of a product if you cannot afford it or are unwilling to pay for it.

Do you want to know what a sale is? When you value the product more than what you are paying for it and when the seller values the money he is receiving for the product more than the product.

I don't believe it was your intention to come across as complaining, but to me you did. You don't want to pay the price for the time and effort of someone else to source these parts...I have no issue with that...like I said I' building my own for fun...don't complain about their prices though just to complain about the price. I bet you can cook a better Hamburger than McDonald's...why aren't you a multi-billion dollar company?

Just food for thought (excuse the pun). =)

And I apologize if this appears harsh, it wasn't mean to be, just an alternate perspective. =)

mannykiller

iTrader: (93)

yea........yet I have to ask myself what one's motive is when you can clearly see that your post is harsh.... and you still post it. So why apologize at all?

Not what this thread is up for though... you can pm me with any further statemtns you'd like to make on my thread...don't want this to get off topic. Thanks.

So back to the subject... DIY oil cooler kits!!

Rxmfn7

iTrader: (4)

I agree with the above statement. Also I don't believe you are taking into account all the fittings, mounting brackets, etc. Plus it is a complete bolt in kit ,that comes with tools and instructions. Could you possibly save a little bit fabbing everything yourself? Maybe, but that goes for just about every aftermarket product you can buy. How much do you think it costs for a muffler and some bent 3" stainless? But people still shell out ~500+ for a catback.

But to answer your question, I don't know of any "DIY" kits out there. In all fairness I think the sakebomb kits are well worth the price.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

Then take your car apart, design and engineer your own system, source all the parts and hardware, cut and build the hoses, fab up your own mounting hardware and brackets (which of course will all fit/work perfectly the first time with no waste), seal it all up in baggies and mail it to yourself and see if the time it takes isn't worth a couple hundred bucks to you.

MGB11

iTrader: (9)

I did my own dual oil cooler kit based off of sake's. I upgraded a few items such as the -an connectors and larger oil coolers. After everything was said and done I was between $800-$900 with shipping from different vendors and such. I also had a two week delay on the Mocal oil coolers due to low inventory.

For the ease of not making brakets, figuring out the angles and geometry of the cooler heights and distance to the bumper the price is not bad at all. I probably have 8-12 hours in welding, templates, fitting the front bumper and making everything else clears.

moconnor

iTrader: (14)

$1000 for a a preassembled kit that has $750 worth of parts is a screaming deal.

Factoring in time, R&D costs, packaging etc. it is hard to imagine that a vendor would make much more than $100 on the deal.

I have done several custom systems in my car (e.g., battery relocation, water injection) and spent at least 100 hours on many of these projects test fitting and routing, ordering odd fittings from the web, driving back and forth to auto stores for parts, etc.

If you place no value on your time (or enjoy doing it) by all means spend the 50+ hours it would be necessary to research and develop a custom system - but don't expect a vendor to do this work for free.

turboIIrotary

iTrader: (9)

if your a diyer yes it may seem a lot but there is a lot of work put behind such kits. for example there hid kits i can make one myself for around 400 and they sell theres for 700 or somehwere close to that. but i will be doing the labor and fitment myself and ordering parts which leaves dowtime and such. but it if you buy the kit you just plug in play.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

LOL,
Over 10 years on the board, and it's funny the same things people always want to chintz out on or don't feel vendor prices are fair on, or want to cobble up themselves from Ebay parts, and never factor the design/fab/engineering cost:

Intercoolers
Oil coolers
Brakes

armytim2002

Turbo kits
Fuel systems
Porting
etc lol

I agree though. If you want to DIY so that you can go "Yeah, you see that there...did it myself. BOOYAH!" Then hell yeah go for it. Its going to take awhile but it will be worth it to you in the long run.

Personally I did a lot of DIY or buying the cheap version before and its always ended in heart break. Not with my FD though. Going all name brand and paying the extra for quality stuff.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

Generally speaking, unless you're a master engineer and just love doing it, or there's functionality or aesthetics that you can't get, or your time isn't worth anything, there's no reason to create something that somebody already makes... certainly not to "save money".

The list of examples of this is long and distinguished.

Fritz Flynn

iTrader: (263)

Setrab coolers are better and don't cost much more

RotorMotor

iTrader: (5)

So, I would like to comment from an impartial perspective... and I'll try my best, but I gotta throw out the disclaimer that its our kit . First off, the base kit is less than a thousand ($930 with the GB discount) ... this is not a sales pitch, it's just the actual price. Also 1,000 - 600 (the number you came up with) =/= 500 . I'm pointing this out not to be obnoxious, but to make the point that when you round off numbers incorrectly in the hundreds, you cant really get a handle on the actual prices of parts.

Dan and I completely encourage people to make their own kits and other parts... we're diy'ers too, and honestly this is more of a hobby to us than some business venture. We genuinely just love the FD , and one of the big motivations for us is to help keep these cars on the road and competitive for the next 10 years+. I think that's why all of us are here.

So just to get this out there... most vendors (and I would have to say especially us) don't really make all that much off of selling these parts. At first glance you see some coolers and a big price tag and think hey I can do that cheaper. But as I ask everyone that asks me about doing their own kit, "have you really added up the prices for everything you need to make the kit?" and "do you really have a good gauge of how much time will be involved in making one?" . Typically most people dont have a good grasp of either. Again, this is not a sales pitch for our parts or any other vendors parts, and not meant to discourage anyone at all from making their own setups... but anyone taking on something like this needs to know exactly what they are getting into for their own sake . We've been there/done that which is why we decided to make a plug and play kit for other people... so they don't run into the same problems we did... it took many iterations to get it perfect . For example, the 99 spec and some aftermarket bumpers require the coolers are mounted slightly higher... this creates clearance problems with the headlight shrouds, and it took us many design iterations and special banjo fittings to get a 3mm clearance between the headlight shrouds and the cooler fittings. Same thing with line lengths, the angles of the end fittings, the bracket designs, the thermostat mount, connectors, spacers, and then making sure nothing interferes with the pulleys, belts, and fans which you are now sharing their space with. Change a couple variables and now you have to redesign the rest to get it all to fit.

Cost:
setrab coolers
aeroquip Lines
mocal fittings
banjos
thermostat
hardware (stainless nuts/bolts/spacers)
an connectors
and a bag full of clamps/thermal wrap/ and other bits to make it all work

Time:
Getting the line lengths correct (youll probably waste line here)
Buying extra line-fittings to get the correct angles
Buying tools to assemble the lines properly, and pressure test them
Material to begin to construct brackets
Time to make the numerous iterations to the brackets (and without CNC bending you will be forced to use thinner aluminum or more bendable meaning less strong brackets)
And then your time to put it all together.

And our instructions are posted publicly online for everyone to see if you would like to reference them when building your setup . I didn't take the time to post all of this to try to sell more kits, or discourage you from building your own . If you want to build it for the fun of doing it, awesome, and please feel free to contact me if you get hung up but if you're trying to save money I'm honestly not sure you'll be much better off when everything is said and done if you do it yourself. It's honestly its not as cheap and simple as you think it might be.

-Heath

Scrub

iTrader: (25)

Thanks for recognizing there is more to building an oil cooler kit then fittings, coolers and lines guys. I really appreciate the support. It appears as though this thread has been made for no other reason then to call out SakeBomb garage.

I'd like to make a few points.
1: There are quite a few other vendors that sell oil cooler kits, why don't you blast them for having high prices? All of our R&D is done in-house we've tried to keep our pricing in the same range as other competitors, but include more. Our kits come complete with all the components needed for the install including pre-made lines. If you think you can piece together an oil cooler kit complete with a thermostat for $600 the by all means go for it.

2: As stated above, it took a great deal of time getting the brackets to fit correctly as well as the line lengths. This kit is not designed for a DIY type of person, it's designed for someone who wants a complete kit that bolts right in. We encourage people to make their own kits, as a member of the Rx-7 community I like to see what people can design on their own. I am always willing to help a fellow DIYer making their own kit, so the best approach would have been to ask! But if you start a thread bashing the prices of our kits, you may want to look elsewhere for that help.

3: Our base kit is actually only $930 right now, but if you'd like to pay full price go right ahead. at least get the price right if you're going to type the whole post in bold.

4: Did you even search dual oil coolers on this forum? There are TONS of threads with people who have build their own cooler kits. Example link

Our kit uses Setrab oil coolers


Edit: I see mr. Heath has actually already responded while I was writing this, bastards fast!
LOL Peter

Fritz Flynn

iTrader: (263)

Sounds like a smoking deal to me especially with the setrab coolers

I have a deal on a used oil cooler kit that's in great shape. All lines and mocal 25 row coolers for 750 shipped ready to bolt on Oil coolers alone cost 430 plus shipping

Come pick it up for 675. I'm in charlottesville VA 22901

MGB11

iTrader: (9)

Sorry if I may have created some confusion. I used Sertab oil coolers. I got the thermostat manufacturer and oil cooler manufacturer mixed up.

Gringo Grande

iTrader: (97)

@mannykiller

What's my motive? You asked for someone to point out if you were wrong...and you are...as evidenced by the other posts in this thread. All you did was call out one particular manufacturer for no other apparent reason that you didn't like their price.

Really? So what is this thread for? Bashing a vendor when you haven't even ordered their product? I was being nice before but apparently stupid is as stupid does. You were wrong to make this thread and now that everyone is pointing out why you are incorrect you want to back out?

So the subject is DIY Oil Coolers? Wow...could have fooled me. You name the thread title "Rip Off Oil Cooler Prices" and then specifically call out ONE vendor by name. What does this have to do with DIY? Typing in Oil Coolers or DIY Oil Coolers would have yielded more than a couple of results.

You don't like my reply? I'm sure Sake Bomb doesn't like being singled out by you as a "Rip Off" for no apparent reason. Don't play the "poor me" card when you opened mouth and inserted foot.

So...to end my participation in this thread...here are my tips:

1) Search for DIY Oil Coolers
2) Next time you want to vent about prices, I would suggest you not name a specific vendor in your post...and even then there is an area in the forum for this.
3) You might want to apologize to the Sake Bomb guys and let them know you didn't mean to attack their product...even though you do not own or apparently have experience with it.

Good luck.

Miata_mx5

+1 to the post above.

The sakebomb kit is an amazing bargain considering the equipment and time put in.

oo7arkman

iTrader: (2)

wow. Some of this is a bit harsh...

Lets see if I can be a bit nicer.. I am having a good day.

First I want to agree with the above that I do believe the sakebomb kit is well worth the money you pay. And if you price all of the components individually you will save maybe $200 and then you need to buy materials to build brackets but that is really pretty cheap. SO yes, you can use the same quality stuff and build it yourself and save a decent amount of cash. AND you can even use their install guide to help you install it (THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR POSTING THAT BY THE WAY GUYS!!!).

Setrab or mocal cores are going to cost you $200+ ea, and the mocal thermostat is around $80 so there is $500 without any lines fittings and depending on what kind/brand of lines/fittings to buy those are easily $200+.

I have done a little shopping on this and have looked into CXRacing oil cooler cores that run around $100ea. They use them on several drift and autox rotaries with no problems (at least they claim no issues). I am thinking about doing my own kit using these cores. It may/may not be worth the $200 savings but that is what I am still thinking over...

proz07

iTrader: (6)

i do most stuff DIY but when i came to the oil cooler setup it just wasnt worth the hassle for the price and quality of the sakebomb kit.

that being said after all the diy's iv wasted more money than just buying it would have cost on somethings but the experience iv picked up along the way is priceless and i have cool tools for later.

so that being said i think you should build your own and document every hour you spent researching, ordering, building, fitting till its done at a cost of lets say 60$ per hour which is cheap. as well as every dime you spent on the parts... how much did it cost. being thats what your argument is over.

i tried to price equal quality parts as sakebomb and parts alone ended up about 850ish then the aluminum and misc mounting hardware so another 50ish plus time thier kit is second to none and worth every penny.

can you build a kit for under 500 absolutly but nowhere near the quality. your looking at brass barb fittings napa line wormscrew clamps and midgrade coolers. will it work sure is it what you want maybe but not me. its like buying an ebay intercooler from cxracing vs an awsome cooler from precision. theres a quality difference

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK SAKEBOMB!!!!

z

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

You sir, are WRONG. ---By decree of Tony Horton

mannykiller

iTrader: (93)

man this thread really took a plung...I think a few people here take things a little too seriously. I didnt mean to call out a particular vendor.. and sorry If I did. I never said the kits weren't nice... I was simply saying they seemed overpriced to me. So sorry for stepping on anyones toes in particular...(SakeBomb Gorage). Mr Heath thanks for being such a chill dude. Mr Gringo...careful man you might have a brain aneurism trying to point out all the things you owned me on haha.. so maybe you should pull the piston out of your *** and use this board for enjoyment..not venting cause you hate your life.

But yea guys....I like to do things my-self and I do do a lot...was just bringing out the topic to see what people thought about it. The title of the thread did have a question mark at the end... meaning "in question" But again I publicly apologize for unintentionally calling out SakeBomb Gorage. I've even considered throwing down for a kit...it looks nice and the reviews i've read through all are positive.

grimple1

iTrader: (1)

I'm sure manny didn't mean to single out SakeBomb in the manner in which his posting comes across as. I've met him once or twice at Sevenstocks and he's always been a nice stand-up guy.

That being said, in situations like this - where fitting and placement can be a real PITA- I've found it easier and cheaper in the long run to just fork over the money right the first time. You will literally eat countless hours trying to get to the near-exact spot that vendors have gotten to.. .and in most cases it doesn't come out THAT much cheaper.

There's still plenty of other things that one can DIY on the car which would require less of a headache. Most of the work on my FD is DIY and I strongly support that mentality; however, when it comes to items like coolers, turbo kits, or other big ticket items usually the vendor's prices are fair enough.

PLUS should you ever meet them at an event you have an instant conversation piece.

t-von

iTrader: (8)

You have got to understand that 3rd gen owners tend to have more available funds to easily drop tons of money into their cars. They are far more likely to pay for these prefabed set-ups. For the average 1st and 2nd gen owners is totally the opposite. I have a 20b that I'm working on and I too cringe at the prices of pil cooler set-ups and everything else related to conversion.




There's nothing wrong with you taking the time to research and put together your own kit from scratrch. That's what I did and it's the only way your gonna save any money, however great patience is needed in sourcing the correct parts. I put mine together with a used 2nd gen oil cooler and custom lines for around $180.00. Why I choose the 2nd gen cooler? 1. There proven if properly ducted. 2. They have nearly 4 times the core size of just 1 single Fd unit. 3. It sits perfectly under my Radiator and gets nice air flow. This works for me because I'm NA and don't have to worry about IC's ect. You have options. Just plan ahead!

eyecandy

iTrader: (19)

I recently made new lines for my stock R1 duals, my radiator/IC sent up plus powersteering cooler did not allow me to use the r1 dual hard line. I think it all the lines and fittings it was about $200, I will have to find some receipts, I know there were 6 straight 10-AN, 6 setrab MM to AN adpators and about 10ft of line.

There is the option of using 2 drivers side oil coolers, or you could use one drivers and an aftermarket. Either case you do not need a thermostat, as the drivers side serves that purpuse, but you will have to make your own mounting brakets. then just make the lines to fit.