When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
My all stock FD is not starting after rebuild, compression @ 90psi, fuel and spark have been checked as well as many other things. I believe the car is out of time, my crank angle sensors are bolted in with the white plug (NE) on top and grey(G) at the bottom. The (NE) is slightly
scratched, but not dented . I have heard the the spacing between the tip of the sensor and the pully should be 3mm,
is this true? mine is about 1mm. Is there a trick to adjusting the plugs, or anything I need to check timing related? New spark plugs
I don't think its possible for an rew to be out of time. Its not something I've ever given any thought to but I couldn't imagine how it would be possible.
With spark and fuel verified we have to start checking electronics but lets expand on HOW you checked spark and fuel first.... something a lot more common than people realize is the switching of the feed and return lines. Doing this won't allow fuel to enter the rails. Have you checked that the injectors are actually firing?
For spark, it's also very easy to cross the plug wires and sometimes mix up the plugs on the coils. The order is white, black and blue.
Its also common to install the fuel temp plug on the water temp sensor.
The map sensor vacuum line is pretty easy to install on what FEELS like a nipper but in fact isn't.
The ground next to the ecu can be missed quite frequently. Its easily overlooked at times along with the 2 grounds in the engine harness that go under the coils.
Not reinstalling the ground from the uim to the firewall will cause a no start condition in some cars. Same with missing the ground from the battery negative that goes to the ac/ps bracket
Theres quite a bit actually but most times it's something small and silly. What ecu are you using? Even a power fc had a lot of diagnostic abilities
We already played this game. Take it to a specialist.
If you are actually getting compression, fuel, spark, and air, the car will at least sound like it's trying to start.
Even if the spark is weak, the compression is low, and the fuel is old. Unless it's badly flooded.
I don't know of any rotary shops in my area, which is why I am trying to figure this out.
The car is sounding like it is wanting to start, Today I took off the trigger wheel and CAS sensors and cleaned them, after that The car just barely started, I did not let it run as I had the belts off to get to the main pulley. Its not flooded, on fds you can put the pedal to the floor when cranking, which will cut fuel, i have been doing this every start up attempt.
I don't know of any rotary shops in my area, which is why I am trying to figure this out.
The car is sounding like it is wanting to start, Today I took off the trigger wheel and CAS sensors and cleaned them, after that The car just barely started, I did not let it run as I had the belts off to get to the main pulley. Its not flooded, on fds you can put the pedal to the floor when cranking, which will cut fuel, i have been doing this every start up attempt.
" i have been doing this every start up attempt."
What? Why?
Rent a truck and U-Haul trailer and drive it as far as it takes to get it fixed. There's apparently a rotary shop in Tucson.
You almost certainly broke something or installed something wrong while pulling/installing the engine, or forgot to install something. It's probably not the CAS. It's probably fuel or ignition.
Call every Mazda dealership in a 100 mile radius and ask if any of their mechanics have been there since at least the 90s.
I don't know of any rotary shops in my area, which is why I am trying to figure this out.
I live in Virginia, about 45 minutes west of DC. I got a trailer and towed my FD to a shop in San Diego, CA for quality work that suited my needs. No shop in your local area isn't an excuse.
Fendamonkey is correct. We have customers that live no where near us and in some cases not even in the same time zone. Driving an exotic car comes with exotic ownership quirks. If you can't figure it out yourself then you have to submit to a place that can wherever that may be in relation to you.
Seems you have exhausted the use of the community. Your last thread goes pretty far and everyone rallied together to help you. It doesn't seem like you will be getting that a second time. You can take this issue to Facebook but you'll definitely get what you get with that.
Just call around for a rotary/rx7 specific shop and drag it there. If you choose to use a Mazda dealership be sure to ask if there are techs there that are familiar with the rx7 specifically as valkyrie mentioned. Odds are there arent but ask anyway because they will accept your car, scratch their *** with it, charge the hell out of you for doing so and give it back worse off than it is now.
Agree with some of the comments above. One thing you have to remember about owning a project car of this sort, whether its an RX7, Supra, Skyline, NSX etc. you need to either have the capital to pay the proper people to build/fix them, have the knowledge to do so yourself, or let it sit on jackstands until you do. There is a possibility that you can cause more harm if you really don't know what you are doing and end up costing you thousands of dollars in repairs damaging something because of ignorance. This forum has decades of knowledge, that being said, basic troubleshooting skills and basic automotive/mechanical/electrical knowledge of how things operate "should" be a basic requirement before tearing into something that could cost as much as these do. You are mentioning that it "is not flooded" because you put your pedal to the floor. Without pulling a plug there is no guarantee that it is not flooded. You never mentioned why you were putting the pedal to the floor "every start up attempt." Maybe its not starting because you have the pedal to the floor? Typically when you start a car you don't touch the pedal. You can have an injector sticking open or a multitude of other issues that could cause this to be flooded. I had a power FC that when it was plugged in, opened all the injectors and literally filled my manifold and intercooler with fuel (not saying this is your case because it would be very obvious) but if you can't check basic things like compression, spark and fuel, then this type of diagnostic is out of your realm of knowledge and by continuing you can cost yourself a lot of money by damaging something in the process. It sounds like if you have been through two threads and some very knowledgeable people have given suggestions, then you have run out of resources for your experience and should take the advice of finding somebody that can further help you in person.
Before this gets out of hand, I'd like to remind everyone to play nice here. We were all newbs at one point, and "just go to a shop" is not conducive to a solution here. There is a MASSIVE amount of misinformation running rampant when it comes to anything RHD, and a Mazda dealer is likely to be the worst place to go to resolve such issues. Plus, most of us can't just zip across the country because it's Thursday, we have certain obligations like jobs, families to take care of, and so on.
With that said, this is my take on it:
1. Verify Crank Angle Sensors are working correctly. These are the same as on a North American FD, so the procedures are on the FSM (found on foxed.ca).
2. Verify all grounds are in proper working order. There are 6 different versions of the FD in Japanese RHD flavor, and every single one is a bit different in this manner. Japanese FDs have the ECU Grounds split up into Input, Output and CPU groups, that then get merged back together on their route to the engine shortblock to be bolted on in separate locations (2 on early FDs, 3 on 96-02). The Golden Rule is that if it is not done in the Aaron Cake manner, it is bad.
3. Use the proper documentation. 10/91 (Version 1, FD3S-1xxxxx) has quite a bit of weirdness going on, compared to later ones. Kinda like a beta release, so they had to do quite a few bug fixes for July 1993 (Version 2, FD3S-2xxxxx). And if we're talking about a Version 4/Series 7 (FD3S-4xxxxx) or later, you've gone from guessing on something that COULD be read, to guessing on an inkblot test. This is why the FD Wiring Bible is taking longer than I anticipated, I'm leaving nothing to chance. If in doubt, find out.
There is good reason why I am the first call people make when it comes to anything RHD. Before anything else, send me the VIN for a Build Sheet, so we know exactly what we're dealing with. Let's not make it worse by guessing.
To provide context... he has made a thread already that is a few pages long of everyone trying to help him. He abandoned the thread for a while and comes back with THIS and is expecting a different result. I linked it up above so you can see.
To provide context... he has made a thread already that is a few pages long of everyone trying to help him. He abandoned the thread for a while and comes back with THIS and is expecting a different result. I linked it up above so you can see.
Yes, I saw it before seeing this one so we're on the same page about it. Sometimes threads get lost, buried in the pile, life gets busy, etc. No harm done. Plus, he's got 40 posts total, give him a break. So let's look at this as a teachable moment and start fresh.
One thing I noticed is that OP's profile has the vehicle in question noted as "1993". Given the amount of misinformation I come across, that's sufficient cause for Full Stop right there. It's anyone's guess if it's Version 1 or 2, and there's a LOT of differences between them in how they're wired up. So until that question is resolved with a Build Sheet, there's no point in trying to pin this down using diagrams that have an 88.89% chance of being wrong and not knowing until it's too late. This is why RHD cars get butchered wiring, and everyone here knows the nightmare it is to fix a previous owner's "mods". To quote Aaron Cake: I want to find people that do this and castrate them. Because if they do wiring like this, God help us if they reproduce...
For the average person, amp that up 100x when it's all in Japanese.
Don't berate someone for being green, asking for help and needing clear answers on something outside of the normal fare that the majority is used to. After all, not everyone can read Japanese, much less be able to find Japanese manuals or understand the unique dialect in them as it is not standard conversational Japanese. Outside of Mazda Japan, RE-Amemiya, or the other noteworthy tuning companies in Japan, nobody knows this material better than I do.
With that established, AZ fd, can you please send me your VIN? I'll handle this myself so it is addressed correctly.
Yes, I saw it before seeing this one so we're on the same page about it. Sometimes threads get lost, buried in the pile, life gets busy, etc. No harm done. Plus, he's got 40 posts total, give him a break. So let's look at this as a teachable moment and start fresh.
One thing I noticed is that OP's profile has the vehicle in question noted as "1993". Given the amount of misinformation I come across, that's sufficient cause for Full Stop right there. It's anyone's guess if it's Version 1 or 2, and there's a LOT of differences between them in how they're wired up. So until that question is resolved with a Build Sheet, there's no point in trying to pin this down using diagrams that have an 88.89% chance of being wrong and not knowing until it's too late. This is why RHD cars get butchered wiring, and everyone here knows the nightmare it is to fix a previous owner's "mods". To quote Aaron Cake: I want to find people that do this and castrate them. Because if they do wiring like this, God help us if they reproduce...
For the average person, amp that up 100x when it's all in Japanese.
Don't berate someone for being green, asking for help and needing clear answers on something outside of the normal fare that the majority is used to. After all, not everyone can read Japanese, much less be able to find Japanese manuals or understand the unique dialect in them as it is not standard conversational Japanese. Outside of Mazda Japan, RE-Amemiya, or the other noteworthy tuning companies in Japan, nobody knows this material better than I do.
With that established, AZ fd, can you please send me your VIN? I'll handle this myself so it is addressed correctly.
No one is berating him for being green. I'm just advising him that if he couldn't find the problem after four pages worth of help, he's probably not going to be able to fix it himself.
Also, it's bad manners to start an identical thread without even responding to the last one.
The fact that all of the models are wired slightly differently is almost assuredly irrelevant in this case, as it doesn't really effect the install/reinstall process and barely effects the diagnosis process.
If he has spark, fuel, and compression within a reasonable margin of error, the car will start. It apparently ran before the rebuild, so there's a 95% chance that this is human error.
He needs an expert to do a visual inspection before he starts performing random FSM bench tests or pulling the engine apart again. Pulling codes is probably still in order, though.
When I bought my FC ages ago, the car wouldn't even turn over until I discovered a random plug in the engine bay was unhooked. When I bought my FD, it ran like crap until I discovered a loose ground.
There's probably one tiny thing causing this problem. Probably a broken wire or something.
One thing I noticed is that OP's profile has the vehicle in question noted as "1993". Given the amount of misinformation I come across, that's sufficient cause for Full Stop right there. It's anyone's guess if it's Version 1 or 2, and there's a LOT of differences between them in how they're wired up. So until that question is resolved with a Build Sheet, there's no point in trying to pin this down using diagrams that have an 88.89% chance of being wrong and not knowing until it's too late. This is why RHD cars get butchered wiring, and everyone here knows the nightmare it is to fix a previous owner's "mods". To quote Aaron Cake: I want to find people that do this and castrate them. Because if they do wiring like this, God help us if they reproduce...
I'm interested in the changes with the different years like youve mentioned. I've been building a list of things to restore my 94 type R and noticed that only one engine harness is listed for 8 bit manual and 16 bit manual or have correspondence with ECM part numbers (other than the autos.) I don't want to take away from this thread but I'm very interested in the work you are doing with the JDM manuals. If the engine harnesses do not differ, the differences you mention must mainly be in the body harnesses.
No one is berating him for being green. I'm just advising him that if he couldn't find the problem after four pages worth of help, he's probably not going to be able to fix it himself.
Also, it's bad manners to start an identical thread without even responding to the last one.
The fact that all of the models are wired slightly differently is almost assuredly irrelevant in this case, as it doesn't really effect the install/reinstall process and barely effects the diagnosis process.
If he has spark, fuel, and compression within a reasonable margin of error, the car will start. It apparently ran before the rebuild, so there's a 95% chance that this is human error.
He needs an expert to do a visual inspection before he starts performing random FSM bench tests or pulling the engine apart again. Pulling codes is probably still in order, though.
When I bought my FC ages ago, the car wouldn't even turn over until I discovered a random plug in the engine bay was unhooked. When I bought my FD, it ran like crap until I discovered a loose ground.
There's probably one tiny thing causing this problem. Probably a broken wire or something.
Those are excellent points, and I give credit where it's due. I'm just saying that region-specific differences CAN and WILL throw a monkey wrench into one's plans. For example, Connector B1-30 (Catalyst Amplifier) doesn't exist on a North American FD. Yet on a Japanese FD, leaving it unplugged means your ignition timing changes (it pulls timing back) and the N3A7/8 ECU starts dumping in fuel because it thinks the exhaust system is on fire. North American FDs work differently here, with different trigger temperatures/conditions. Result is that trying to bypass the Catalyst Amp means you won't know something's wrong until the carpet's on fire. And they changed the system again for December 1998, a "silent" change between the N3Fx and N3Gx ECUs despite otherwise identical pinouts. And by using the North American wiring books, you'd never figure this out because I haven't published the FD Wiring Bible yet.
Moral of the story: Use the right tool for the job.
I will agree that this does require proper attention, which is why I stepped in. I've verified that the car in question is a Version 1 Type S Automatic, MSC Code F101-110. Things were screwy on Version 1s and it didn't get ironed out all the way until December 1995. Also, trying to pull codes with a LED in the Diagnosis Connector can be challenging to figure out the correct pattern and identify each code properly. I have trouble with it sometimes, the last time I did it was on a Eunos Cosmo and I wrote the procedure for it. So in order to resolve this as quickly and efficiently as possible, eliminating variables is the name of the game here. The #1 culprits? Grounds and/or a crank angle sensor going bananas because every other calculation for fuel, spark, etc is based on those two items.
I'm interested in the changes with the different years like youve mentioned. I've been building a list of things to restore my 94 type R and noticed that only one engine harness is listed for 8 bit manual and 16 bit manual or have correspondence with ECM part numbers (other than the autos.) I don't want to take away from this thread but I'm very interested in the work you are doing with the JDM manuals. If the engine harnesses do not differ, the differences you mention must mainly be in the body harnesses.
I appreciate your interest. The 16-bit N3Fx/N3Gx ECUs have different connectors than the 8-bit N3Ax ones, so the differences will be in the Emission and Front Harnesses if memory serves. Except for differences in the fan control system logic which I've not addressed sufficiently yet, they can be matched up pin-for-pin minus a few things like Port Air Leakage (removed after 12/1995). I made a conversion chart last year and it'll be part of the FD Wiring Bible to help with 8-to-16bit conversions.
For the most part, F100 to F109 is Version 1, F110-F122 is Version 2, F123-F127 is Version 3. This is not set in stone and there are some exceptions. For example, in terms of the MSC build code, F110 doesn't point to anything, yet there is a F110 version of the TWS Unit #2 (AKA CPU #2 for us Gaijins) on Version 2 FDs. I'm structuring the FD Wiring Bible so one can see changes side-by-side between each version. This is how one explains why the Spirit R doesn't have a glove box light (was removed for 12/98) and how to retrofit it back in using donor parts from an earlier FD, where to tap for power/ground, where to put the switch, etc.
If in doubt, ask and I'll take a look in the parts catalogs/manuals/etc. Who knows, the answer you seek may be simpler than you think.
I was scanning through the FSM and noticed diagnostics for crank angle sensors on page F-180. There's a basic resistance resistance test and then an installation note about setting plate clearance. It says 1-2mm.
09-20-23, 05:29 PM
