I guess you did not watch the TV on the space shuttle crashing because of the space ship's integrity. Yeah NASA is highly advance in technology then any cars system, but their way are not always the best and most certainly not always the right way. As far as using synthetic, it is preference. I mean people can dispute about the fact it burns better or not. Regardless of anything, we can read all we can about labels and so forth, but hey the oil companies still makes their big bucks and they can tell you synthetic works better or not, but all they care about is the money and is to convince the cusumers to buy buy buy. We cusumers are just blinded. Company can sell crappy oil, but hey if they posted research and say hey this oil is awesome, everyone would go buy it. Anyway not to get away from the point here. People have their preferences in oil, cars, girls. And everyone thinks certain oil, cars, and big boned and skinny girls are the best for them. Anyway for the person that posted this, just read up on the synthetic and non, and see which one you think is the best for your car.

 

Ok, don't make me get my thermo book out . Had a couple of classes myself Yes viscosity is related to temperature. Still not related to oil breakdown as long as the oil is within it's designed operating temp.

I wouldn't exactly call the rotor housing a 'block' although similar in concept. Oil is used to cool the rotary engine, not just coolant. The inside of the rotors are entirely cooled by oil. How many other 1.3l (or 2.6l, etc depending on how you measure the displacement) engines have oil coolers? Must be because the oil gets hot, you think

Let's get out the old Mobil 1 commercial and fry 20w-50 organic and 10w-30 in a pan at high temp and let's see which turns black to sludge

Because 20w-50 is harder to pump(i.e. resist change in form) it robs HP. You will make more HP with a lower viscosity oil.

Maybe one of the reasons that some of the racers use higher viscosity is that their motors run for long periods of time at high temp (which lowers the actual viscosity). Also I belive that higher viscosity oil has a better cushioning effect helping to keep high rpm parts apart.

BTW: Racing Beat, which has been racing rotaries for over 20 years, recommends Royal Purple synthetic.

Course I could be full of crap but that's what I love about this forum

 

I would not say that synthetic would be the best to use. Maybe if you live in sub freezing temperature. But 20/50 is the way to go if your living in warm weather areas.

Also 20/50 can be used in sub freezing temp, as long as you let your car run for about 5 minutes, which you should anyway, so you do not ruin the turbos.

 

Negatory. The "SJ" API (American Petroleum Institute, the organization that tests and rates each oil for sale to the general public) rating states that phophorous-- the additive that clogs cats and coats O2 sensors enough to render them useless-- levels must not be more than 1000 ppm, a substantial drop from the previous "SH" rating. This was done precisely for that reason-- the car OEMs were crying the blues about emission component warranties. Most of the synthetic oils you can buy off the shelf are now "SJ" rated, so they won't clog up your cat or ruin your O2 sensor. Not absolutely sure, but I do know that many racing synthetics also have low phosphorous content, such as Motul.

Motul motor oil is ester-based...yes, in very simplistic terms, it is a vegetable-based oil. Which is why it has negligible ash content (burns clean), and exhibits excellent heat stability/aging properties. Oils are made up of a base stock, with a bunch of additives put in for various demands on the oil. When oil is exposed to extreme heat, the more unstable additives vaporize, leaving nasty by-products behind. If the base stock isn't quality stuff, the oil starts breaking down, and you end up with black sludge in a hurry.

 

Why would you want to wait for the engine to get warm enough to properly pump high viscosity oil through it? Can you say lubrication starvation? If anything, you would want good quality low viscosity oil. Even if synthetic is not better for the motor, it is certaintly better for the turbos. Synthetic is better at handling the high temps that turbos run without coke'ing. Someone please explain to me why Mazda says run 10W-40 in warm weather? It's not that Mazda engineers are stupid. These are the people we revere for making the rotary engine a reality. Why would they be wrong in figuring out something as basic as the viscosity for a hydraulics (oil) system? Again, racing conditions are one thing but for everyday driving I would go by Mazda recommendations. Now originally Mazda said don't use synthetics but that was a long time ago. Royal Purple spoke at the latest SevenStock and said synthetic is ok. This is posted on Mazda's web site at http://www1.mazdausa.com/mazdaspeed/...otary_news.asp

 

The reason Mazda recommended not using synthetic oil was that back in the early '90s, most of the synthetic oils were made from base stocks that had high ash content. This meant that they left a lot of carbon in the combustion chamber, which builds up, snags an apex seal, then voila! Instant warranty claim and/or one pissed-off customer.

 

Rotary Engine idea was not founded by a Mazda Tech. Mazda did not even do a good job in developing the Rx7. Look at the downpipe, Apex seals, all the crappy plastic that burns in extreme heat. Look at the differential that cant handle over 400rwhp without breaking. Look at the 5th gear syncro they decided to go cheap on.

HOLD ON, wait they might actually be smart (light bulb just lighted up). Hehe maybe they put all those crappy parts in there, so guys like us would spend more money buying their Apex seals, there 5th gear syncro, so they can make more MONEY.

Anyway turbos are going to COKE anyways regardless of your oild your using. That is why I got dual oil coolers and a turbo timer.

 

This is getting way off the subject but...

The RX-7 is a well designed car, just not perfect. The rotary was not their idea originally, but they were the only ones who had the ***** and put their asses on the line to make it a production reality. Other manufactures bought rights to the rotary but didn't follow through to production.

Most FD's are 93's. Ever noticed that most first year cars are not as reliable as later years? Mazda is not the only manufacturer which does not get it perfect the first time and tweaks the car over the years.

The car was not designed to handle 400hp. I assume to make the car as light as possible, they did not 'over-engineer' the car (with the exception of the twin turbo control system). The car is well designed as a 255 hp sports car. Once you start upping the hp, you are cutting well into the car's engineered margin of safety for parts. Why would they engineer the car to handle 400hp? It was never conceived to be a 400 hp car...

Admittedly, the '93 car has a few issues. But for the most part, you should blame us enthusiasts for trying to modify the car into something it was not engineered to be.

5th gear breaks because of missed shifts. They fixed this over the years. The cat downpipe was for US models and probably makes it too hot under the hood. But this is a long term heat issue. Vipers have underhood heat problems too. Just no one has put high mileage on one (garage queens) Without the precat, the FD would have never made it to the US in the first place. So it was a necessary evil.

Some of the plastic inside does suck but it got better in '94 and '95. Many other manufacturer's cars have this problem...

The twin turbo control system is indeed overly complicated. Mazda was trying to make the transition seemless. This was important so you don't spin out under boost with the huge hp spikes most of us now get. It was never conceived to be used with an open intake. Again, Mazda is not the only manufacturer pushing the envelope on a new system which did not get it entirely right the first time.

Apex seals break under too much boost or detonation. I beat the crap out of my FC for 135,000 miles before I lost the motor (I blew off a cooling hose and overheated). Nothing fundamentally wrong with the motor.

Ok, Mazda engineers must be stupid. That's why the car is one of the best handling cars in the world. I guess the chassis engineers are geniuses while they hired retards for everything else.

Obviously you have no idea of what it takes to engineer something. If you think the FD is such a bad engineered POS then you should sell it. Then again, if you want a better appreciation of the design of the FD, I would suggest this excellent book on the design and conception of the car by Yamaguchi and Dinkel
http://www.diecastx.com/store/product654.html

Sorry, I am sick and tired of people bashing this car. If you want a 400hp+ overengineered car then get a Supra...

Back to the subject. The turbo's are less likely to COKE with synthetic because they handle higher temps without breaking down. Your dual coolers and timer will help until the one time you run it hard and don't let it cool off enough. That's why I run synthetic.

Mazda had engine labs full of REW engines running 24-7 when they determined the oil viscosity. I'm sure they had temp sensors out the wazzu on every critical area of the motor looking at temps, etc...

 

Obviously you have no idea of what it takes to engineer something. If you think the FD is such a bad engineered POS then you should sell it. Then again, if you want a better appreciation of the design of the FD, I would suggest this excellent book on the design and conception of the car by Yamaguchi and Dinkel

Please, I love my car then you would ever love your car. I do not rag my car out, so I can blow the engine.

If your stupid to hear what people write on paper, then you must be agnorant. I work with mechanics all the time. As a matter of fact before I bought my 7, I talked to a certified Mazda Rotary Mechanic and he told me that MAZDA went the cheap route with the tranny, why you wonder? Because they though the parts in the tranny could hold up. I guess it does not. Also what about the stock exhaust, mine is all rusted in and it isnt from the salt. Understand that it is all about BUSINESS and MONEY. Mazda in 1993 was trying to compete with the release of the Supra. They were trying to sell a car cheaper and to perform as good as a Supra. Don't get me wrong, because you misunderstood me when I said that Mazda did not do a good job in building the Rx7. I love my car more then any other car out there and certainly more then a Supra. I know what my car is capable of, as long as I do my regular reliable mods. I mean in 1993 sticker price for the RX7 was estimated to $33,000 and the Supra for $44,000, subtract that and you got a $11,000 difference .You think Mazda could have made a supercar using the best products for their car and MAKE NO MONEY. Selling a car for $33,000 is pretty cheap for a car they perform as well as it does. Mazda wants to make the most money they can out of any car they sell. They used generic parts that they thought could hold up, but not in long terms. Look at the new Enifi, now that is what you car a more reliable car and what do you pay for it, probably over $40,000. Now look at that 7 grand difference at LEAST, I put $7,000 in my Rx7 and it would be unstoppable.

Toyota has the technolgy and mechanics to build a good car, same as Mazda. But Toyota has more resources to work with then Mazda does. I mean you think Toyota would be sold out to Ford? Yeah all first year model cars have problems and you know why they have problems? Because they were too haste to build a car to compete for the new year, so they can compete with other new cars coming out with the new body style. I can name you dozens of car that come out their first year with the new body style, that perform well. I mean Mazda were good at what they do, but if they were not in such a hurry and were not cheap on some of the parts, so they can keep the price down. Maybe then we wouldnt have to do reliable mods on it in the long runs. Man look at the statistics, how many Rx7 have you seen does not have problem with over heating? Or how many people daily drive their Rx7? Rx7 was not meant to be daily driven over 50k, unless all reliable mods are done to them.

Anyway, I do not even know why you have to direct so much anger toward me, I was stating a fact, if you could act more like your age and be more civilized. I listen to your opinion, and you criticize me? Please, I take it to heart you told me to sell my FD, I am never getting RID OF IT!!!

Just chill out, everyone has there preference of oil and cars and their opinion of it.

But to be honest, do not talk to me about who did not went cheap with what. I know what companies do to sell their cars. Anyway maybe your next post will be more friendly.

Sincerely,
Leo

 

Sorry, I get ticked off when I see blanket statements that the car is not well engineered (and I am worked up this week). We should probably blame the Mazda bean-counters for pushing the car out before all the bugs were worked out of it. I would agree that Mazda is not the best built cars from Japan. Just look at Consumer Reports and you can see that Toyota has the best quality. I'm sorry I don't always hold that much value in what Certified mechanics say (depends on the mechanic and what it is). I mean most anyone can pull a trans and put in new syncro's etc. Doesn't mean they are qualified to design a dual cone sycnro for a particular load, rpm, etc. What are they basing their comments on? Everyone has a opinion but unless you know why it's engineered the way it was it's all just speculation. Perhaps Mazda used cheap materials and the mechanic can tell you that since for a particular mileage this part should not be worn\broken like that. That's valid. I do think Mazda didn't do a good job on 5th gear.

The book I mentioned above was written with Mazda engineers and designers as the source. Great read. If you love your car you'll really appreciate reading it.

My FD has almost 90k miles on it now and it's a daily driver. No real relibility mods to speak of except the downpipe. No overheating issues. But it sure needs some TLC in areas due to wear.

All of the research I've seen on oil shows synthetic has a higher flash point and lower ash content (AMSOIL, notably). It also has a lower pour point for the same viscosity. Higher viscosity oil will flow slower and remain in contact with a surface for longer. You need the oil to flow over with a lower temp and higher flow rate to transfer more heat away.

Will be interesting to see what Mazda recommends for the Renesis RX8 motor

 

When you build a new motor, how long should you use dino juice before switching to synthetic? Same rules as piston? Or just synth it right off the bat?

 

Well, with brand new turbos, I was told to run dino juice for the first 300 miles. Then dump it, and switch over to the synthetic. The explanation given to me was that the minerals in the dino juice help seat the carbon seals. I imagine there's a similar effect for the eccentric shaft seals.

 

just get the cheapest oil you can find (20W50 if in warm areas, 10W40 in cold areas) and change it frequently.