rebuild? or wait til she blows up?
01-20-14, 01:10 PM
#1
Full Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Chesapeake Va
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
rebuild? or wait til she blows up?
on Wed. I will be picking up a 93 FD with 89k miles on it. still with the original motor. it is not blown, but I was wanting some input on whether I should just go ahead and get it rebuilt right away, or if I should just wait til she goes? I have some things I want to do as far as reliability mods (bigger exhaust, new radiator, possibly FMIC,AST). I have about a 3k budget to work with as soon as I get the car, and I know the rebuild will cost about 2k at the local rotary shop. Should I do the mods first, or should I just go ahead and get the rebuild out of the way? all input (besides smartassness) is appreciated...thanks
01-20-14, 01:14 PM
#2
IMO if the engine is known to be original you may as well just do it now.
this is not a biased response but trying to save you the headache of additional costs when it does go or unpreparedness due to money that was set aside for it being spent on other things. original engine FDs these days are like a species going extinct.
i just did a used car inspection on an original engine FD yesterday and the pressure test showed coolant leaking into the rear rotor, the owner wasn't even aware of the issue because the AST cap was faulty so the system couldn't build pressure and masked it. most FDs with original engines are cobbled together in such a manner and pass from one owner to the next. buying a rotary car mid winter is always rolling the dice also, a long test drive on a warm/hot day is required to verify the car is not overpressurizing or overheating, and an overnight restart to verify it starts cleanly without misfiring, or a specialty shop inspection.
you could just drive it but set aside an additional chunk of $500 or more for the possible additional replacement parts.
this is not a biased response but trying to save you the headache of additional costs when it does go or unpreparedness due to money that was set aside for it being spent on other things. original engine FDs these days are like a species going extinct.
i just did a used car inspection on an original engine FD yesterday and the pressure test showed coolant leaking into the rear rotor, the owner wasn't even aware of the issue because the AST cap was faulty so the system couldn't build pressure and masked it. most FDs with original engines are cobbled together in such a manner and pass from one owner to the next. buying a rotary car mid winter is always rolling the dice also, a long test drive on a warm/hot day is required to verify the car is not overpressurizing or overheating, and an overnight restart to verify it starts cleanly without misfiring, or a specialty shop inspection.
you could just drive it but set aside an additional chunk of $500 or more for the possible additional replacement parts.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 01-20-14 at 01:25 PM.
01-20-14, 06:54 PM
#3
Full Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Chesapeake Va
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I actually went and test drove it a few days ago and it was about 35 degrees outside. I told the guy I wanted to be there when it was started cold. so we started it cold and let it warm up before I took it for about a 15 mile test drive. things seemed to be ok. everything ran smoothly from what I could tell.
I talked to a local shop and they told me it would be about a 3 week job to rebuild my motor. I think that is a long time to rebuild one of these motors but maybe im wrong. he also said that he uses aviation seals, solid corner seals and all soft seals will be replaced. im thinking maybe once he gets my car he may order those parts...maybe that's what will take the 3 weeks to rebuild it. any more input from anyone else?
I talked to a local shop and they told me it would be about a 3 week job to rebuild my motor. I think that is a long time to rebuild one of these motors but maybe im wrong. he also said that he uses aviation seals, solid corner seals and all soft seals will be replaced. im thinking maybe once he gets my car he may order those parts...maybe that's what will take the 3 weeks to rebuild it. any more input from anyone else?
01-20-14, 07:38 PM
#4
Rebuild it before things can get worse. Rebuilding the motor itself isn't a long process, typically the labor of pulling the motor and tearing it down is a hurdle. If you're doing the removal and reinstall and just having someone do the rebuild expect it to take a while as you're not familiar with the engine and its accessories.
01-20-14, 08:03 PM
#5
Full Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Chesapeake Va
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rebuild it before things can get worse. Rebuilding the motor itself isn't a long process, typically the labor of pulling the motor and tearing it down is a hurdle. If you're doing the removal and reinstall and just having someone do the rebuild expect it to take a while as you're not familiar with the engine and its accessories.
01-20-14, 09:04 PM
#6
As far as reliability, personally I don't consider a bigger exhaust or a front mount intercooler to be hugely beneficial to reliability.
If you do have 3K put aside for the car, you can choose to rebuild it now, or keep it going in its current state. 3 weeks may be a reasonable amount of time for a rebuild if the shop is busy or they need to make room or source parts. Bear in mind they wont be focused purely on your engine rebuild only. There will be other work and other customers to fit in and keep happy as well.
If I had to do a short block rebuild tomorrow, I would give myself a month, with the other projects I have here personally.)
If you do drive it at its current state, keep some money (maybe half or 1.5K) put away for future engine work. Spend some of the rest on proper reliability items like alloy AST tank, Dale's viton check valves, spark plugs, oil, air filters, spark plug wires, boost gauge, water temp gauge, etc.
That way, when the rebuild time comes, you have covered ancilliary reliability parts, and you still have the cash for the rebuild. When its rebuilt, it will be the total package.
01-20-14, 09:31 PM
#7
Full Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Chesapeake Va
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm glad you're asking the big questions ahead of getting the car. Thats a good move- most people buy it, drive it, blow it and then ask what to do in retrospect.
As far as reliability, personally I don't consider a bigger exhaust or a front mount intercooler to be hugely beneficial to reliability.
If you do have 3K put aside for the car, you can choose to rebuild it now, or keep it going in its current state. 3 weeks may be a reasonable amount of time for a rebuild if the shop is busy or they need to make room or source parts. Bear in mind they wont be focused purely on your engine rebuild only. There will be other work and other customers to fit in and keep happy as well.
If I had to do a short block rebuild tomorrow, I would give myself a month, with the other projects I have here personally.)
If you do drive it at its current state, keep some money (maybe half or 1.5K) put away for future engine work. Spend some of the rest on proper reliability items like alloy AST tank, Dale's viton check valves, spark plugs, oil, air filters, spark plug wires, boost gauge, water temp gauge, etc.
That way, when the rebuild time comes, you have covered ancilliary reliability parts, and you still have the cash for the rebuild. When its rebuilt, it will be the total package.
As far as reliability, personally I don't consider a bigger exhaust or a front mount intercooler to be hugely beneficial to reliability.
If you do have 3K put aside for the car, you can choose to rebuild it now, or keep it going in its current state. 3 weeks may be a reasonable amount of time for a rebuild if the shop is busy or they need to make room or source parts. Bear in mind they wont be focused purely on your engine rebuild only. There will be other work and other customers to fit in and keep happy as well.
If I had to do a short block rebuild tomorrow, I would give myself a month, with the other projects I have here personally.)
If you do drive it at its current state, keep some money (maybe half or 1.5K) put away for future engine work. Spend some of the rest on proper reliability items like alloy AST tank, Dale's viton check valves, spark plugs, oil, air filters, spark plug wires, boost gauge, water temp gauge, etc.
That way, when the rebuild time comes, you have covered ancilliary reliability parts, and you still have the cash for the rebuild. When its rebuilt, it will be the total package.
Trending Topics
01-20-14, 09:58 PM
#8
FMIC... Well some may say that an FMIC will reduce intake temps, therefore increasing reliability. To them, I counter with this:
The FMIC has a larger internal volume and this can often make the stock twin turbos work harder to pressurize a larger volume of intercooler. This in turn can stress the stock turbos, and this is not reliable. This could kill the stock (tired) turbos quicker than not adding a FMIC.
A bigger exhaust is a good way to reduce backpressure and could cause an overboost situation, which will kill the engine. A bigger exhaust will not reduce underhood temperatures at all. It could also lead to a blown engine.
No matter how 'sexy' those items may seem, they dont add reliability. They push an older engine to the edge of what it can stand.
The FMIC has a larger internal volume and this can often make the stock twin turbos work harder to pressurize a larger volume of intercooler. This in turn can stress the stock turbos, and this is not reliable. This could kill the stock (tired) turbos quicker than not adding a FMIC.
A bigger exhaust is a good way to reduce backpressure and could cause an overboost situation, which will kill the engine. A bigger exhaust will not reduce underhood temperatures at all. It could also lead to a blown engine.
No matter how 'sexy' those items may seem, they dont add reliability. They push an older engine to the edge of what it can stand.
01-20-14, 10:50 PM
#9
FMIC... Well some may say that an FMIC will reduce intake temps, therefore increasing reliability. To them, I counter with this:
The FMIC has a larger internal volume and this can often make the stock twin turbos work harder to pressurize a larger volume of intercooler. This in turn can stress the stock turbos, and this is not reliable. This could kill the stock (tired) turbos quicker than not adding a FMIC.
A bigger exhaust is a good way to reduce backpressure and could cause an overboost situation, which will kill the engine. A bigger exhaust will not reduce underhood temperatures at all. It could also lead to a blown engine.
No matter how 'sexy' those items may seem, they dont add reliability. They push an older engine to the edge of what it can stand.
The FMIC has a larger internal volume and this can often make the stock twin turbos work harder to pressurize a larger volume of intercooler. This in turn can stress the stock turbos, and this is not reliable. This could kill the stock (tired) turbos quicker than not adding a FMIC.
A bigger exhaust is a good way to reduce backpressure and could cause an overboost situation, which will kill the engine. A bigger exhaust will not reduce underhood temperatures at all. It could also lead to a blown engine.
No matter how 'sexy' those items may seem, they dont add reliability. They push an older engine to the edge of what it can stand.
if you can while your at it and want to reduce underhood temps, wrap the downpipe it helps slightly.
01-21-14, 06:57 AM
#10
Waiting until the engine blows will be a more expensive rebuild, since shattered apex seals will damage the rotors and housings that could be reused in a rebuild. Often times the parts exiting the engine also damage the turbine wheel(s) of the turbo(s). If you know the engine is weak, it is beneficial to rebuild as preventative maintenance.
I would suggest that you concentrate on getting the car running in tip top shape before throwing power adders to the car. Upgrade the radiator, AST, clutch and downpipe while the engine is out for reliability. You will probably find that it needs new vacuum lines, hoses, belts, fuel filter, plugs wires, etc. in other words basic tune up items, that combined with an engine rebuild will far exceed your $3k budget.
I would suggest that you concentrate on getting the car running in tip top shape before throwing power adders to the car. Upgrade the radiator, AST, clutch and downpipe while the engine is out for reliability. You will probably find that it needs new vacuum lines, hoses, belts, fuel filter, plugs wires, etc. in other words basic tune up items, that combined with an engine rebuild will far exceed your $3k budget.
01-21-14, 09:17 AM
#13
I dont think you can count on only 2K to rebuild your engine. If your rotor housings are bad, that could be another $1500 right there. If your turbos are worn out, that could be another big expense. There are lots of other things that can add to your bill.
If its running good, I say drive it a while to save up money for your eventual rebuild.
If its running good, I say drive it a while to save up money for your eventual rebuild.
01-21-14, 09:22 AM
#14
Waiting until the engine blows will be a more expensive rebuild, since shattered apex seals will damage the rotors and housings that could be reused in a rebuild. Often times the parts exiting the engine also damage the turbine wheel(s) of the turbo(s). If you know the engine is weak, it is beneficial to rebuild as preventative maintenance.
I would suggest that you concentrate on getting the car running in tip top shape before throwing power adders to the car. Upgrade the radiator, AST, clutch and downpipe while the engine is out for reliability. You will probably find that it needs new vacuum lines, hoses, belts, fuel filter, plugs wires, etc. in other words basic tune up items, that combined with an engine rebuild will far exceed your $3k budget.
I would suggest that you concentrate on getting the car running in tip top shape before throwing power adders to the car. Upgrade the radiator, AST, clutch and downpipe while the engine is out for reliability. You will probably find that it needs new vacuum lines, hoses, belts, fuel filter, plugs wires, etc. in other words basic tune up items, that combined with an engine rebuild will far exceed your $3k budget.
Yep. Great advice- that is exactly why I am rebuilding it on my own (With the help of a friend who rebuilt 2 T2's)
Even if you just pull the motor, it will save you big $$$ and it isn't that hard IMO
01-21-14, 09:48 AM
#15
I dont think you can count on only 2K to rebuild your engine. If your rotor housings are bad, that could be another $1500 right there. If your turbos are worn out, that could be another big expense. There are lots of other things that can add to your bill.
If its running good, I say drive it a while to save up money for your eventual rebuild.
If its running good, I say drive it a while to save up money for your eventual rebuild.
01-21-14, 09:56 AM
#16
Full Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Chesapeake Va
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was quoted 1500$ for a basic rebuild plus 500$ to uninstall and reinstall the motor. Porting is only another 200$ but was told I would need a PFC which I don't have and probably won't get til later on.
01-21-14, 10:42 AM
#18
Full Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Chesapeake Va
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
im not looking to build a race car. my original plans were to keep the car stock, or damn close to it. im not looking to build a car with 400-500hp. just something to take out on nice days. he said he uses aviation seals, solid corner seals, and all soft seals will be replaced. from the sounds of everyones input on here, I think I may just get the rebuild right away, along with replacing all the vacuum lines (may as well if they are all going to be taken off anyway). I can do the other things over time I guess.
01-21-14, 11:45 AM
#20
3 weeks isn't absurd for a rebuild, i give 2 weeks for the rebuild itself(1 week for the engine and 1 week for the R+R plus possible issues) plus the lead time before i can even get started on it.
01-21-14, 11:51 AM
#21
Full Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Chesapeake Va
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i would recommend checking around for references from the person/shop you talked to. mainly because the price is lower than most competitor shops and "you get what you pay for" still holds true in many instances.
3 weeks isn't absurd for a rebuild, i give 2 weeks for the rebuild itself(1 week for the engine and 1 week for the R+R plus possible issues) plus the lead time before i can even get started on it.
3 weeks isn't absurd for a rebuild, i give 2 weeks for the rebuild itself(1 week for the engine and 1 week for the R+R plus possible issues) plus the lead time before i can even get started on it.
01-21-14, 06:04 PM
#23
Full Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Chesapeake Va
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i spent over an hour today calling around different performance shops, Japanese shops, even the mazda dealer....no luck. no one could even point me in the right direction. the only shop I know of is the one close to my house here. im not saying they are a bad shop at all cause I know nothing about them. but I know they have been open about 2 years or so. they are actually a member on this forum... the next closest place I could find was in rock hill SC, which is about 6-7 hours from me. this sucks!!!
01-22-14, 12:59 AM
#25
if he is a member on the forum, search his name, see if he built any motors for ppl on the forum and if they have any complaints or issues with their cars
and tem its not true that porting is only for upwards of 400hp, you'll give him bad info..
plenty of people have small streetports to large for street driven cars that dont even break 400,
depending on what you want from the car, how much power and what you will be doing with it.. but again you said you cant really get a pfc atm and said you like it how it is so maybe next time.(if and when the mod bug hits)
and tem its not true that porting is only for upwards of 400hp, you'll give him bad info..
plenty of people have small streetports to large for street driven cars that dont even break 400,
depending on what you want from the car, how much power and what you will be doing with it.. but again you said you cant really get a pfc atm and said you like it how it is so maybe next time.(if and when the mod bug hits)