problems after fresh rebuild need help
07-11-09, 05:48 PM
#1
problems after fresh rebuild need help
its been nine months since i destroyed my last motor, well i finally pulled everything together breaking the bank and sinking every paycheck into this bastard, motor was rebuilt went half bridge port, upgraded to single turbo, upgraded the fuel system and did a bunch more mods to it its put me in the hole about 9 grand ive done a huge majority of all the work to it besides the rebuilt motor, ne ways i finally got around to starting it today was super stoked. i spent all day putting her together, when i turn her over it barley fires i have to open the throttle slightly with my foot to get it too catch. it barley ran poofing out clouds of smoke if i let my foot of the gas it dies, i can smell fuel its running super rich. i took the tb elbow off and it has black liquid (smells like fuel) litterally dripping out of it its filling my manifold with it. i checked my wiring for the injectors its all good, im running 850 low impedence primarys and 1680s sec all the right resistors are there, i bought them used six months ago off a forum member here. i used my buddys power fc first cause his car was close to my setup same port job and all, i then used my power fc changed a few settings on it from the stock like the injector sizing and stuff, same deal. i changed the plugs twice, same deal it runs but like **** and dies. this thing is becoming a nightmare and my beater second car is messing up i need to get this going. im pretty sure its a fuel problem, my map sensor is hooked up. im not sure wat proper fuel pressure should be at idle but i think is set around 35 40 psi. i need some pointers im getting super frustrated. any help would be great.
07-11-09, 07:59 PM
#2
Where does this bolt go?
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My car did the same thing. I solved the problem by going back to the basics and setting up my TPS. It sounds like your problem may be more involved. Check your MAP sensor electrical and vacuum connections. Check for other vacuum leaks. Did you change to a 3bar map sensor? You may have a stuck injector. I would send the injectors off to be cleaned and flow tested. But you should be able to determine which injector is at fault by loosening your manifold at the block and see if fuel starts running out. This will tell you if a secondary injector is stuck open. If it is a primary you will have to get creative. Did you use a datalogit to change the injector size? That is all I can think of. Hope it helps
07-11-09, 08:11 PM
#3
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I understand your pain man, this car is super frustrating at times, I've been there, but once you finally get it working, everything will be worth it.
Have you tried de-flooding it?
Have you set your 850s lag to -.40?
Have you verified that the 3 fuel lines coming from the tank are correct?
Have you tried de-flooding it?
Have you set your 850s lag to -.40?
Have you verified that the 3 fuel lines coming from the tank are correct?
07-11-09, 09:53 PM
#5
im thinkin of a stuck injector good call on how to fig it out, im runnin my stock map and it ran good b4 i thru the seal in the last motor i never messed with the tps. currentley im spittin oil out of the turbo oil feed banjo on the block need to fix that b4 i attempt to start her, im sick of takin this thing apart i tend not to take breaks when workin on it im not giving up.
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07-12-09, 03:54 AM
#10
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hey cody sorry to hear about your problems with the new upgrades. good luck getting it all fixed up and don't give up on it. you know it will all be worth the b/s that you had to go through.
07-12-09, 10:24 AM
#11
this is my next option im gonna flow test and have the injectors cleaned i removed the lower manifold and it looks to me like my secondairys are pissing fuel cause the whole mess is in the manifold seems to be coming from those intake tracks.
07-12-09, 02:48 PM
#12
The number one thing you need to remember is: Don't panic. You are rushing things, and you are freaking out. Get your daily driver running correctly and remove all mental deadlines you have for getting the FD going. It's ready when it's ready.
Now first thing's first. Are all sensors within FSM specs? Go to etc. --> sensor check on the PFC commander and check that everything is working, especially the TPS (adjust it properly if need be) and the MAP sensor.
Second thing: With the key in the on position and the engine off, do a fuel leak test by grounding the diagnostic connector.
Third thing: pressurize your intake system to check for vacuum/boost leaks. You need a coupler and a PVC cap tapped for a tire valve fitting or a male air compressor fitting. Similar tools are available here: www.boostpro.net/prodtester.html , the "universal tester" at the bottom . Get access to some kind of air compressor and pressurize the system. Feel for air leaks, and slightly spray soapy water around the engine bay. If you have leaks (and i bet you do, I'd put money on it) the car will probably run like ****.
I would be surprised if it were a stuck secondary injector, unless they have a ton of miles on them. What you may have though are improperly installed secondary injectors. There are a couple ways you can install them to avoid a vacuum leak (series 5 pintle caps for example). You can also get a fuel leak if you don't seat the injectors properly and torque the rail down evenly. Besides that, my money is on vacuum leaks and poor tuning. I have had very similar symptoms on first startup.
Now first thing's first. Are all sensors within FSM specs? Go to etc. --> sensor check on the PFC commander and check that everything is working, especially the TPS (adjust it properly if need be) and the MAP sensor.
Second thing: With the key in the on position and the engine off, do a fuel leak test by grounding the diagnostic connector.
Third thing: pressurize your intake system to check for vacuum/boost leaks. You need a coupler and a PVC cap tapped for a tire valve fitting or a male air compressor fitting. Similar tools are available here: www.boostpro.net/prodtester.html , the "universal tester" at the bottom . Get access to some kind of air compressor and pressurize the system. Feel for air leaks, and slightly spray soapy water around the engine bay. If you have leaks (and i bet you do, I'd put money on it) the car will probably run like ****.
I would be surprised if it were a stuck secondary injector, unless they have a ton of miles on them. What you may have though are improperly installed secondary injectors. There are a couple ways you can install them to avoid a vacuum leak (series 5 pintle caps for example). You can also get a fuel leak if you don't seat the injectors properly and torque the rail down evenly. Besides that, my money is on vacuum leaks and poor tuning. I have had very similar symptoms on first startup.
07-13-09, 03:53 PM
#13
i think u r right arghx about a vacuum leak i havent had time to check but now i sit her n think about it, i do believe i could have improperly installed both sets of injectors. it is possible to have vacuum leaks around them? the map is probably sensing that my car is coming onto boost by having such a large leak, therefore dumping mass amount of fuel due to the enlarged injectors correct?
07-13-09, 05:05 PM
#14
The secondary injectors can cause a vacuum leak. There are some spacer thingies you can install, but i've never used them. You can install pintle caps from the series 5 Rx-7's, which is what I did.
http://www.mazdatrix.com/getprice.as...m=13-MZTX-0003
http://www.mazdatrix.com/getprice.as...m=13-MZTX-0003
07-14-09, 09:31 PM
#16
update followed the 3 steps above here are my specs closed throttle pim-2.65v vta1-1.00v vta2-2.34v vmop-1.38v wtrt-1.09v airt-1.42v fuel-4.98v highlighted o2s-0.02v................ open throttle everything stays current except vta1-4.37v vta2-4.97v.
i pressurized my manifold found a leak around the idle air control valve i fixed it and went ahead and pulled my injectors evrything was in order i double checked my wiring too. went ahead and started her back up i fixed my oil leak but still flooding like a ****. i was able to hold the throttle open slightly by backing in the screw on the mani to open it up to keep it running. it was sitting at 2k smell of fuel was strong from the exhaust mixed with black smoke had about 10lbs of vacuum according to my gauge. shut her down after a few min checked the thottle body and still fuel was seeping through the thottle plates only on the top ones mostly on the right one. pics provided
after shut down i can litterally see the fuel pressur gauge drop slowly in about 5 min time it goes to 0, stuck open secondairy????
i pressurized my manifold found a leak around the idle air control valve i fixed it and went ahead and pulled my injectors evrything was in order i double checked my wiring too. went ahead and started her back up i fixed my oil leak but still flooding like a ****. i was able to hold the throttle open slightly by backing in the screw on the mani to open it up to keep it running. it was sitting at 2k smell of fuel was strong from the exhaust mixed with black smoke had about 10lbs of vacuum according to my gauge. shut her down after a few min checked the thottle body and still fuel was seeping through the thottle plates only on the top ones mostly on the right one. pics provided
after shut down i can litterally see the fuel pressur gauge drop slowly in about 5 min time it goes to 0, stuck open secondairy????
07-15-09, 10:33 PM
#18
Original Gangster/Rotary!
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An old post of mine I found:
Sounds like your TPS needs to be adjusted, which is very easy to do by having a friend slowly rotate it while you monitor the settings on the commander.
Also, have you send all four of your injectors off to be cleaned and flowtested?
As per page F-182 in the FSM:
narrow range---fully closed, 0.75 to 1.25V//closed to open, 1.0 to 5.0V//fully open, 4.8 to 5.0V
full range---fully closed, 0.1 to 0.7V//closed to open, 0.4 to 4.3V//fully open 4.2 to 4.6V
(I think VTA1 is narrow range and VTA2 is full range on the pfc commander, but without having it in front me I can't be sure.)
You want to check all of this with the motor warmed up, but shut off. Have the key in the 'accessory' position, and rotate the linkage by hand. Also, you'll want to reset the ecu by disconnecting the ground on the battery for at least 20 seconds and depressing the brake pedal.
narrow range---fully closed, 0.75 to 1.25V//closed to open, 1.0 to 5.0V//fully open, 4.8 to 5.0V
full range---fully closed, 0.1 to 0.7V//closed to open, 0.4 to 4.3V//fully open 4.2 to 4.6V
(I think VTA1 is narrow range and VTA2 is full range on the pfc commander, but without having it in front me I can't be sure.)
You want to check all of this with the motor warmed up, but shut off. Have the key in the 'accessory' position, and rotate the linkage by hand. Also, you'll want to reset the ecu by disconnecting the ground on the battery for at least 20 seconds and depressing the brake pedal.
Also, have you send all four of your injectors off to be cleaned and flowtested?
07-15-09, 11:16 PM
#19
you neither felt nor heard any other air leaks in the entire intake system after the throttle plates?
also, those TPS values that it should be set to are with the car warmed up if you still have the TB coolant hose. If you are holding the throttle plates open with the screw on the front of the TB then it is going to increase your TPS voltage.
also, those TPS values that it should be set to are with the car warmed up if you still have the TB coolant hose. If you are holding the throttle plates open with the screw on the front of the TB then it is going to increase your TPS voltage.
07-16-09, 08:43 PM
#21
put it back together again i think its like the tenth time im losing count double checked everything pressure tested it one more time found a tiny leak on my boost gauge line fixed that again tested it was good. still flooding out. now im doing this all without the turbo piping all hooked up is it a nessecity to have that hooked up? i remeber when my old engine was in there i blew a hose out and it still idled fine but it was almost stock then. im just tring to get it to idle somewat. i know it could be tuning but when do the secondairys come online? its the secondairys causing all of the issues. those are the only intake tracks that are wet. could i have a defected map sensor?
07-16-09, 08:51 PM
#22
Original Gangster/Rotary!
iTrader: (213)
For the second time---fix your TPS settings, then send your injectors off to be cleaned and flowtested, all four of them. The secondaries do not fire at idle.
07-18-09, 04:20 PM
#23
ok finally got it going decent its slightly rich but didnt run it long enough for it to fully warm up, ne ways i fiddled with the tps a lil bit it did not solve the prob, used a diff map sensor same deal, did a crap load of searchin throuh threads, i messed around with the power commander went into functions turned off i believe (dunno cant read japanese) o2 feedback the sequential deal and some ign idle if i remember correct, also went through my mess of old and leftout parts and saw an iac block off plate, said what the hell i guess ican just unplug it for the hell of it insteade of blocking it off, wat a difference a tiny bit of smoke but its not flooding through the throttle plates any more, so out of the combination something went right. any thoughts?
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