Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

My engine was rebuilt like 9 months ago, I had some issues originally with getting it started due to various things, then i finally had it basically running though it kept getting flooded. PPL suggested it was due to only having the downpipe on.. The engine hasnt been broken in yet, and the car sat for awhile while i got the funds together to fix some other things, get the front mount on, finish the exhaust, bought a power FC, laptop, datologgit, wideband o2.

NOW.... I read an article about adjusting the TPS, and idle. SO i set all the screws so the butterflies were fully closed, and screwed the idle bleed screw all the way in then back a half a turn. (it was set like 8 turns out or so and i had never messed with it prior.) With the new setting the car didnt even attempt to start, just cranked over and soaked the plugs. So i dried them off reinstalled them and backed the air screw out a ways, (like it was) then the engine kept wanting to start but just wouldnt completely catch.

With the PFC i have the stock base map in, and O2 sensor feedback is off. I have spark on all 4 plugs. When i plug the IAC/ BAC valve in (black thing with white connector) it makes a strange noise, when i first plug it in it sounds like it goes to the open position and holds it, the noise was strange so I have just left it unplugged.

The car seems to flood really bad everytime i try to start it, i even tried pull starting it. There was so much fuel it was leaking out between the downpipe and midpipe.

With o2 feedback off, IAC/bac valve unplugged, do i need to change the cranking fuel maps or somthing? why do i need the bleed screw out so far for it to want to start??

Im new to using the PFC. sorry for the long post i just wanted to give as much detail as possible.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Try this:
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/flooded-engine-737191/

goz

try this havent done it yeat but heard it works a charm and u dont need to touch the plugs.
"drop a few ccs of 10 40 mineral oil down the 2 vacum nipple on the upper intake manifold where the dum valve vacum line goes to(the should be one on each side) inject about 20 ccs of oil in a let it work it way into the engine. this will remove all exces petrol and should fire up"

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Well, IMO, all that's going to do is foul the plugs even more. I don't see how "oil is going to remove excess gas". The idea is that you need to clear out the chamber. There are a few ways to do this, one of which is removing the spark plugs and cranking the motor. The other is to hold the gas pedal to the floor and crank the motor. Holding the gas pedal stops fuel from entering into the chamber during startup.

However, it takes more effort for the engine to turn with the plugs in because of the compression. When the take the plugs out, the engine basically just spins free. This is much easier on your battery through this process as your battery will get drained trying to unflood the car.


Now, after you have cleared the chamber of the fuel, dropping some MMO or something down the intake track can help build compression to get the car started. But that's after you have cleared the combustion chamber of all the excess fuel.

Wompa164

iTrader: (4)

Who rebuilt your engine?

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

the guys over in canada i forgot the name of the place but they have a big outfit and a good reputation. rebuilt the engine. What is MMO? I've used ATF fluid in the plug holes to build compression...

Im picking up another fresh set of plugs today at 4 30 also.

Isnt the EGI fuse for the ignition?

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

EGI:

MMO is Marvel Mystery Oil. AFT works too.

goz

i agree mahjik but read this, let me no what u think.cos i was gonna try this tomorrow.just chargein battery cos if i do it i only wanna do it once...

http://www.irishrotary.com/forum/php...pic.php?t=1327

hope the link works.

also i no its always a good idea to change oil after uve de flooded car.
but im doing a fue projects at the mo [coolent change/ temp guage and a/c removel]

is it ok just to let it run for 20 mins switch off and continue projects?
mines bad can smell fuel on dip stick.and i just changed oil last month ahhahahah

but i dont plan on driving car of next fue months.so ill change oil before driving.thanks

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

is the MMO thicker? I might see if they have it at o'reilly when i pick up my plugs.

I also might mention i have a switch in the engine bay that allows me to crank the engine over without the key on.. would this be similiar to unplugging the EGI Fuse?

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

It was most likely cause by the oil creating extra compression. If you have too much fuel in the combustion chamber, where your plugs are just soaking wet, then that is NOT going to work.

Sure. It shouldn't be a problem.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Actually ATF is going to be thicker, at least from what I've seen.

As far as your second question, that depends on what your "switch" does. If it's simulating a 'start', then no the EGI will still be active and fuel will be sprayed.

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

It's just a wire that goes from + to the starter solinoid. i still have to have the key in the "on" position to start the car. Is the MMO less likely to foul the plugs? Mahjik do you run a Power Fc? Can you tell me what the [fuel] voltage is supposed to be with the key in the on position and during cranking? mine is at 3.96. when i was reading a manual i think by dale clark i noticed a screen shot of the fuel voltage at 2.XX, which made me think maybe my fuel pressure was too high or somthing... thoughts?

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

In that case, you should still remove the EGI for the cranking to clear the chamber.

You'll use such a small amount that I don't think it will matter. Shooting some WD-40 down there will also do just a well.

Sorry, I don't run the PFC. You'll have better luck asking Chuck in the PFC section.

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

alright thanks, i think that voltage might actually be the fuel temp in which case it wouldnt matter. I'll post back after i try some more things

jbust

iTrader: (16)

I had these problem last year of summer, i had to deflood the car 6x in a month..
here's some help:
1. Most common is weak compression and plug fouling from sticking seals. hopefully you dont have this problem, but to be sure just check your compression.
2. Too much fuel being added from larger capacity injectors (which can be adjusted through your PFC).
as for my car, it was too much fuel, I had the exact symptoms of trouble on what you just posted. I adjusted the settings on the PFC for the injectors during my dynotuning session. car runs fine right away after the adjustments. I was reading your post and did you replace your injectors to a bigger size? what is your current set-up? (twins or single) i might be able to send you my map if your using the same injector size that i have (850 pri/ 1600 sec). just PM me.

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

good news i got the car running! i did as mahjik suggested, and put fresh plugs in and changed a setting in the air temp/ igt adjustment area.. which probably didnt do anything, but made me feel good to do it. the idle is all over the place... and the car is still super rich. Am i supposed to adjust the idle with the throttle body elbow on or does it make a difference? also my air adjustment screw is no where close to the suggested half a turn out. lastly... either my wideband o2 sensor isnt hooked up right or my afr's are below 9.. (programed the lc-1 for 9-16 AFRs)

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

ok i'm going crazy now. after starting it lastnight i pulled the 2 leading plugs which were very black and sooty. then this morning i cleaned the plugs off and put them back in. and it wouldnt start!! so i pull all the plugs out they look a lil wet but not dripping like before so i pull the egi crank it for 10 secs, clean the plugs and try again. it almost started once, but then wouldnt at all.. so then i pulled the plugs again repeat the process and this time put some MMO in the chamber. cranked it over, and wouldnt even appear to start. this is very tiring removing and reinstalling plugs! I still have spark and still have fuel..

jbust

iTrader: (16)

pmed you.

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

i'm sure some people have noticed ive been having problems with getting my rebuilt engine to start. The car is flooding easily and once it does start the plugs get very black. The other day i got all new bur9's and the car fired up and ran after deflooding it. But after shutting it off they were all black and it wouldnt start again even after cleaning them and buring the carbon off.

I can't afford to spend 25 dollars for new plugs everytime i want to start the car until i get my fuel maps right.

Im not running any boost until the car is starting correctly and not fouling out.

Is there some cheaper plugs i can run that will work better then the ones i have for this purpose? maybe hotter plugs that wont foul as easy.

I read somewhere of people running a motorcycle plug that was cheaper and worked well for tuning.

Detonation shouldnt be an issue with hotter plugs cause i wont be pushing the engine or running boost until i can get the idle and low throttle maps not so rich.

What options do i have? i was thinking of getting all bur7s but thats another $25 and if they were to keep fouling too i'm in the same boat. Maybe an autolite or somthing with a 7 heat range or hotter? what plugs work in the car without scratching rotors?

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Did you have your injectors cleaned when replacing the engine?

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

no i figured the cost wouldnt be warranted since i was going to upgrade the fuel system anyways. i don't think they are stuck though, when i apply voltage i hear them clicking.. though its not a scientific method of testing them..

I just thought with all the upgrades and the rebuilt engine with 3mm seals that they just haven't had a chance to seat.

Now that its been flooded several times i suspect there could be fuel in the oil, would that cause any further difficulties?

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

i think my MAP sensor is bad. The voltage shows 2.49 with the key on. according to following thread the voltage should be 1.2 - 1.4. I'm going to see if i can find the mazda specs for it to confirm.

https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...ve+spark+plugs

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

You could just borrow one from someone local for testing. Heck it only takes like 1 minute to change it out. However, it sounds like your injectors may be leaking.

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

Unfortunately i'm the only one in my town with an Rx7 and i don't know anyone else personaly that has one. I'm about an hr from houston. I guess it could be the injectors.. Though it doesn't seem like it dumps alot of fuel until its running or trying to start it. Plus its on both chambers. I did find in the service manual the specs for the map sensor. And if i'm understanding them correctly i should be in the normal range with no vacuum.

afterburn27

iTrader: (5)

Well, that guy is wrong. lol

Check page F-181 in the '93 FSM for the test specs on the MAP sensor. Key on (0psi gauge, 14.7psi absolute, *no vacuum or boost*) should be 2.38-2.78V.

This is also confirmed with my old datalogs and Chuck's PFC notes.

I think he mistakenly read the vacuum voltage.