OK, I'm scratching my head. I had a set of Stage 2 BNRs installed months ago. First, they wouldn't boos over 7 PSI because Bryan forgot the pills. He sent me a set which I installed but then the primary intake hose started colapsing so I wouldn't get good boost. So I replaced the hoses with hard pipes. I finally would get good boost on the top end, but the primary builds boost very slow, only reaching a peak of about 10-11 PSI at transition, even though the boost setting on the PFC is for 13PSI. I even tried turning up the pre-spool actuator duty cycle all the way up to 90% and still no difference. Then I thought Bryan might have sent me the worng size pills, so I pulled them out today and sure enough, they were both the smaller sizes. So I replaced them with all new hoses and pills, still the same crap. I have a fully open exhaust so there's no clogged cat problem. What the heck man??? $1650 for turbos and I can't get them to boost better than the stockers. ERRR...I'm really starting to hate this twin setup but I like to pass smog.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Are you boosting to 13 psi above the transition? Do they spool slowly or just not reach 13 psi?

I don't want to sound like a broken record here, but is your prespool door closed tightly when the car is off? Are you SURE that there are no boost leaks anywhere?

 

I had the same thing. I sold them. I had mine parallel and I think they spooled slower than a large single. Full boost by about 5k. I eventually got used to it though. The larger compressor wheels make them spool slower, but they do have a higher boost efficiency than stock. I think the new stage 3s spool a bunch faster.

 

BNR recently redid their turbo line didn't they? are these the old or new bnr stage 2's your talking about?

 

I have a newly rebuilt set of stock BNR's, with a PFC tuned to about 11.5 psi. I notice that I don't get a kick in the pants boost till around 4500RPM. Is this similar to what you are experiencing Houdini? I am also leaking oil like a bitch. I have the typical oil pan gasket leak, but this is just way too much oil and smoke on boost to be the OP gasket.

Any suggestions my friends?

My boost gauge on the PFC reads about -500mmHg at idle (over -600 when I let off the gas while driving), and about +.75 at boost.

 

Yes, above transition, I have no problem getting all the boost in the world.

The primary starts producing boost at low RPMs but builds linearly only to hit a peak of 10-11 PSI right at transition.

I'm going to go through all those damn actuators and turbo control crap today and see if I can find anything. From what it sounds, I thought it was the prespool staying open or the chrage control valve so I'll focus on those.

 

I hope Bryan didn't make a mistake and do some parallel moditfications. I think Rick(of Rick's Rotary) would have caught that though when he installed them.

If the primary doesn't spool well, why even change it with the stocker? Just change the secondary. But I think I've seen charts on the BNRs running sequential that looked good on the low end. Not as good as the stockers at the really low RPMs, but not far off either.

 

Yes, these are the original Stage 2s

 

Yes, that's exactly the problem I have for boost. Are you running sequential or parallel? And yes, my BNRs are leaking oil even though I got the Stage 2s with the stock ceramic bushings. Just don't have the time or money yet to pull them out and ship them back to Bryan just yet.

 

I am running sequential Houdini.

Hmmmm, seems that Bryan has some similar issues on his hands with his turbo rebuilds that have been recently completed. I went with BNR because they have been said to be the best, however, this doesn't mean they don't have recurring issues. For the money I have pissed away with the stock turbo problems I have had I could almost have a single kit now

And I to brought it up that I'm not paying Demetrios another $500 out of my pocket to have these R & R because the initial rebuild wasn't correct.

 

OK, I checked everything except the wastegate and prespool actuator adjustments. Before I get down under the car and do that, I'd like to know is this just an inherent characteristic of the BNRs or is there something wrong here? Am I wasting my time looking for something that isn't there?

 

I've been told by 2 knowledgeable FD people that leaking oil is a natural incident from BNR. No one really compares to them on rebuilding FD turbos but one of them knew of 4 different sets that required a second rebuild because the first go round wasn't great..

 

I think you're refering to the oil leaking problem on the Stage 3s that have the "dynamic seals". The stage 2s have the stock seals so they shouldn't have that problem.

I just want to fix the boost problem right now, that is if it's out of the ordinary that the stage 2s don't produce boost well under 4500RPMs.

 

Nope, my info relates to all version rebuilds.

Anyway, lets us know what you find out Houdini. Might answer my questions as well.

 

That was my thoughts exactly. I actually put together my single kit for right around $1500, which is less than I paid for the BNRs.

 

If I don't get someone to chime in on this thread, I'll email Bryan and see what he has to say. If this is just the deal with the BNRs(which would be a big bummer), I'll see if I can work around it. Maybe lowering the transition point would help. I have a Datalogit and I think you can use it to change the transition RPM down on the PFC, although I have yet to use it ever so it'll be interesting when I do.

 

more bnr problems....

 

You might search for older posts by Kwikrx7. I remember him having this problem and had Brian rebuild the turbos again to fix the problem.

 

Have you spoken (via email or telephone) to Bryan regarding your latest issues?

Are these a brand new set of old stage IIs? Or did you purchase them used?

To my knowledge (SPOAutos, correct me if I'm wrong) only the Stage IIIs had the oil problem because of the seals. The stage IIs have no such problem...

Victor

 

well, I didn't want to go to Bryan until I ruled out any other cause for the problem. But the vacuum lines don't seem to have any leak(car holds plenty of vacuum even after being off for over an hour). All the blow off valves work right. The charge control valve works correctly. The pills are correct, or at least now they are. No blown hoses. Only thing left really is the wastegate and prespool flaps. Just trying to figure out if all the BNRs are this way.

The turbos were brand new, straight from BNR. Bryan rebuilt them at the end of last year so they're not the new ones he just made up. And yes, the Stage 3s are the ones that leak oil. Bryan suggested that I get the Stage 2s so I wouldn't have to worry about that.

 

Sort of a sidenote, but what should vacuum read on the PFC? Do my numbers stated in my first post of this thread sound accurate or do I have a vacuum leak possibly? maybe that will explain my questioning.

 

make sure you dont have ANY boost leaks, when my wg started to leak some I couldnt hear it but my boost went from hitting 17psi at 3500 to hitting 17psi at 4500 and that was with non seq. If you DO have a leak you need to be carefull cause it will cause the turbo's or over rev and thats BAD for them.

I doubt its actually the turbo cause even in non sequential they should spool faster than that. I think you have a seq issue or maybe a boost controller issue. What kind of boost controller are you running?

Its prob the actuator/seq probs or boost controller issues depending on what controller your running

STEPHEN

 

Thanks for the info

Are you running BNRs or stockers?

The vacuum lines hold vacuum fine, I didn't check the for boost leaks in the lines though, but I have silicon lines on almost everything.

I hope it's just a pre-spool actuator problem. I'm using the PFC and stock solenoids to control boost which worked great on the stockers.