Premixing Fuel ?
10-19-11, 06:26 PM
#1
Premixing Fuel ?
ok I did a quick search and got nothing on the 3rd gen , I got some responses from older generation cars ..
and the FAQ didn't have anything on thiis topic
I'm curious if it relates to the FD as well ..
What does premixing help do?
( obviously helps lubricate like a 2cycl engine .)
whats the ratio for it ??
I dont know if possible can I get a link , or a rundown on how this helps .. or doesnt help .
and the FAQ didn't have anything on thiis topic
I'm curious if it relates to the FD as well ..
What does premixing help do?
( obviously helps lubricate like a 2cycl engine .)
whats the ratio for it ??
I dont know if possible can I get a link , or a rundown on how this helps .. or doesnt help .
10-19-11, 09:58 PM
#4
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A lot depends on if you are using the OMP system or have removed the OMP. As a rule of thumb most people seem to be running 1/2 oz per gallon WITH an OMP, and 1 oz per gallon with the OMP removed. Some use more, some use less but it seems to be a baseline (flame suit on).
If you are running a stock ECU, you can't remove the OMP. Well, you can, but you still have to leave it connected to the harness or it will throw codes. The power FC doesn't care if it's plugged in or not.
My personal choice during rebuild was to remove the OMP (I have a power FC) and run 1oz/gallon of premix. My reasoning is that there is a lot of parts in the OMP system that can fail, leaving you with no lubrication unless you are adding 1/2 oz per gallon.
If the OMP itself, lines or valves fail in any way you now have a problem. All of these parts are a pain to check as well. By removing the system and relying totally on premix I have one less system on the car that I need to worry about having problems with.
Some say premixing is a pain in the **** but I don't think it is. Pull up to pump, dump pre-measured container of premix in, pump in gas, swish-swish all mixed up thanks to the pump pressure, drive away.
Another reason I chose to remove the OMP is that I now no longer need to have dirty oil from the rest of the engine squirting into the combustion area and gunking up my seals with carbon residue. I also no longer need to constantly check my oil to make sure the OMP is working right and dumping more oil in. You can get around this with an external premix tank and the RA adapter, but as I'm sure you know there isn't much room in the engine bay.
If you are running a stock ECU, you can't remove the OMP. Well, you can, but you still have to leave it connected to the harness or it will throw codes. The power FC doesn't care if it's plugged in or not.
My personal choice during rebuild was to remove the OMP (I have a power FC) and run 1oz/gallon of premix. My reasoning is that there is a lot of parts in the OMP system that can fail, leaving you with no lubrication unless you are adding 1/2 oz per gallon.
If the OMP itself, lines or valves fail in any way you now have a problem. All of these parts are a pain to check as well. By removing the system and relying totally on premix I have one less system on the car that I need to worry about having problems with.
Some say premixing is a pain in the **** but I don't think it is. Pull up to pump, dump pre-measured container of premix in, pump in gas, swish-swish all mixed up thanks to the pump pressure, drive away.
Another reason I chose to remove the OMP is that I now no longer need to have dirty oil from the rest of the engine squirting into the combustion area and gunking up my seals with carbon residue. I also no longer need to constantly check my oil to make sure the OMP is working right and dumping more oil in. You can get around this with an external premix tank and the RA adapter, but as I'm sure you know there isn't much room in the engine bay.
Last edited by twinsinside; 10-19-11 at 10:01 PM.
10-19-11, 11:33 PM
#5
I think premix is a hassle and not worth it. Most FD motor fail with coolant seal problems, second biggest failure mode is apex seals breaking from detonation.
Many FDs die from being modded to death, both for "reliability" and for performance.
Many FDs die from being modded to death, both for "reliability" and for performance.
10-19-11, 11:57 PM
#6
A lot depends on if you are using the OMP system or have removed the OMP. As a rule of thumb most people seem to be running 1/2 oz per gallon WITH an OMP, and 1 oz per gallon with the OMP removed. Some use more, some use less but it seems to be a baseline (flame suit on).
If you are running a stock ECU, you can't remove the OMP. Well, you can, but you still have to leave it connected to the harness or it will throw codes. The power FC doesn't care if it's plugged in or not.
My personal choice during rebuild was to remove the OMP (I have a power FC) and run 1oz/gallon of premix. My reasoning is that there is a lot of parts in the OMP system that can fail, leaving you with no lubrication unless you are adding 1/2 oz per gallon.
If the OMP itself, lines or valves fail in any way you now have a problem. All of these parts are a pain to check as well. By removing the system and relying totally on premix I have one less system on the car that I need to worry about having problems with.
Some say premixing is a pain in the **** but I don't think it is. Pull up to pump, dump pre-measured container of premix in, pump in gas, swish-swish all mixed up thanks to the pump pressure, drive away.
Another reason I chose to remove the OMP is that I now no longer need to have dirty oil from the rest of the engine squirting into the combustion area and gunking up my seals with carbon residue. I also no longer need to constantly check my oil to make sure the OMP is working right and dumping more oil in. You can get around this with an external premix tank and the RA adapter, but as I'm sure you know there isn't much room in the engine bay.
If you are running a stock ECU, you can't remove the OMP. Well, you can, but you still have to leave it connected to the harness or it will throw codes. The power FC doesn't care if it's plugged in or not.
My personal choice during rebuild was to remove the OMP (I have a power FC) and run 1oz/gallon of premix. My reasoning is that there is a lot of parts in the OMP system that can fail, leaving you with no lubrication unless you are adding 1/2 oz per gallon.
If the OMP itself, lines or valves fail in any way you now have a problem. All of these parts are a pain to check as well. By removing the system and relying totally on premix I have one less system on the car that I need to worry about having problems with.
Some say premixing is a pain in the **** but I don't think it is. Pull up to pump, dump pre-measured container of premix in, pump in gas, swish-swish all mixed up thanks to the pump pressure, drive away.
Another reason I chose to remove the OMP is that I now no longer need to have dirty oil from the rest of the engine squirting into the combustion area and gunking up my seals with carbon residue. I also no longer need to constantly check my oil to make sure the OMP is working right and dumping more oil in. You can get around this with an external premix tank and the RA adapter, but as I'm sure you know there isn't much room in the engine bay.
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10-20-11, 12:55 PM
#8
The OMP falls into the same category as many other innovations by Mazda that were designed to make the rotary engine population friendly. In doing so, they sacrificed simplicity and engine health.
Oil in the combustion chamber is as essential as crankcase oil. With this, why depend on an inefficient delivery system that can fail.
When is the last time you checked your OMP for proper flow?
Oil in the combustion chamber is as essential as crankcase oil. With this, why depend on an inefficient delivery system that can fail.
When is the last time you checked your OMP for proper flow?
10-20-11, 01:35 PM
#9
sooo I'm guessing that most of you delete the OMP ? where is the OMP , and in your honest opinion should I delete it? ( I'm pretty meticulous about maintenance ) I want the car to be as healthy as possible since I will be driving the hell out of it ..
Also .. this sorta just popped into my head .. if the OMP is deleted and fuel is premixed .. then that would allow me to run a synthetic engine oil for more longevity , and flow , as synthetics have a generally thinner cold weight ..
and better temp range then dino oil .. since I'll be premixing , and the OMP will not be feeding the engine oil it wouldnt need to be burnt off ( I know there is a debate weather NEWER synthetic oils burn off or not ) but for arguments sake lets say they dont . or is there still something that would make the car like dino oil better?
Also .. this sorta just popped into my head .. if the OMP is deleted and fuel is premixed .. then that would allow me to run a synthetic engine oil for more longevity , and flow , as synthetics have a generally thinner cold weight ..
and better temp range then dino oil .. since I'll be premixing , and the OMP will not be feeding the engine oil it wouldnt need to be burnt off ( I know there is a debate weather NEWER synthetic oils burn off or not ) but for arguments sake lets say they dont . or is there still something that would make the car like dino oil better?
Last edited by Tem120; 10-20-11 at 01:40 PM.
10-20-11, 02:50 PM
#10
Wait what? It's ok to use synthetic. I think most people use the OMP and alot of people run synthetic with no problems. I use idemitsu 20w-50 on my car and use their premix. I also have the Sohn premix adapter so that I can let the OMP squirt premix instead of regular engine oil. In terms of convenience and avoiding carbon deposits, I think this is the best way to go.
10-20-11, 03:05 PM
#11
I'm not a fan of the adaptor , and an extra reservoir , yes I agree it is convinient until it breaks ..
and Also why 20-50 ? why not a thinner cold weight ? like a 10-50 its been a while since I've looked at oil weights . but is there a reason for not going thinner cold weight for better flow when cold?
and Also why 20-50 ? why not a thinner cold weight ? like a 10-50 its been a while since I've looked at oil weights . but is there a reason for not going thinner cold weight for better flow when cold?
10-20-11, 03:54 PM
#12
I'm not a fan of the adaptor , and an extra reservoir , yes I agree it is convinient until it breaks ..
and Also why 20-50 ? why not a thinner cold weight ? like a 10-50 its been a while since I've looked at oil weights . but is there a reason for not going thinner cold weight for better flow when cold?
and Also why 20-50 ? why not a thinner cold weight ? like a 10-50 its been a while since I've looked at oil weights . but is there a reason for not going thinner cold weight for better flow when cold?
As for a higher weight oil, along with fuel dilution that could occur and based on the fact that alot of people have had success running 20w-50, I'd rather opt for the 20w-50. I'd rather have a problem of "too much viscosity" than not enough. I used to use 10w-30 but once I had my oil changed only a little later than I should and the oil came out like water. I wasn't to happy about that. Ever since I've been using the 20w, I've never seen that happen.
10-20-11, 04:10 PM
#13
Adding the adapter and an extra resevoir doesn't really increase complexity that much. It isn't much of a point of failure IMO. If this is such a worry, you should definitely delete your OMP but many people are running their's with no problem.
As for a higher weight oil, along with fuel dilution that could occur and based on the fact that alot of people have had success running 20w-50, I'd rather opt for the 20w-50. I'd rather have a problem of "too much viscosity" than not enough. I used to use 10w-30 but once I had my oil changed only a little later than I should and the oil came out like water. I wasn't to happy about that. Ever since I've been using the 20w, I've never seen that happen.
As for a higher weight oil, along with fuel dilution that could occur and based on the fact that alot of people have had success running 20w-50, I'd rather opt for the 20w-50. I'd rather have a problem of "too much viscosity" than not enough. I used to use 10w-30 but once I had my oil changed only a little later than I should and the oil came out like water. I wasn't to happy about that. Ever since I've been using the 20w, I've never seen that happen.
I didn't know about premixing or even the OMP until just yesterday . so its not something I purchased my RX7 knowing about .. but I do know that its better to be safe then have to rebuild ..
Now I'm not saying that the pump will completely fail.. very few times have I seen an oil pump fail , on an outboard either .. but alot of times like I said it just wasnt up to what its supposed to be. just like in a boat its ALOT easier to pour some oil into the reservoir and forget it! but I know better ..
10-20-11, 06:04 PM
#14
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All I can say is that when I started premixing on my old engine I noticed immediate results. Sounded better, felt better, revved smoother, even my knock baseline went down on the commander.
The problem with the OMP is that every part of it is very difficult to get to in order to check, and replacing the OMP with the engine in is a pain in the rear. The front cover bolts that mount it strip out very easy as well. On top of that a new OMP is like $1000 or more...so you can either pony up the cash, put in a difficult to replace questionable used part, or spend an extra 10 seconds at the pump. Choice was a no-brainer for me.
From someone who has suffered through many OEM part failures (FPD, radiator, multiple vac hoses, OMP, solenoids, AST) I can say that all of the mods I have done on my recent build has given me a new confidence in the car. Modding for the sake of doing it may be questionable, but a well thought out plan where reliability is concerned is a good thing. My car has never ran or felt better than it does now.
Oh and regarding the RA adapter...its a decent compromise, but it assumes your feed lines won't crack (though you can get stainless ones at about the same price as OEM), and that the valves are working correctly. IMHO the problem lies in the valves that dribble the oil onto the apex seals. Out of the 5 engines I dismantled and 10 valves, I think 2 were working correctly. How often do people check those? My guess is never, or during rebuild.
The problem with the OMP is that every part of it is very difficult to get to in order to check, and replacing the OMP with the engine in is a pain in the rear. The front cover bolts that mount it strip out very easy as well. On top of that a new OMP is like $1000 or more...so you can either pony up the cash, put in a difficult to replace questionable used part, or spend an extra 10 seconds at the pump. Choice was a no-brainer for me.
From someone who has suffered through many OEM part failures (FPD, radiator, multiple vac hoses, OMP, solenoids, AST) I can say that all of the mods I have done on my recent build has given me a new confidence in the car. Modding for the sake of doing it may be questionable, but a well thought out plan where reliability is concerned is a good thing. My car has never ran or felt better than it does now.
Oh and regarding the RA adapter...its a decent compromise, but it assumes your feed lines won't crack (though you can get stainless ones at about the same price as OEM), and that the valves are working correctly. IMHO the problem lies in the valves that dribble the oil onto the apex seals. Out of the 5 engines I dismantled and 10 valves, I think 2 were working correctly. How often do people check those? My guess is never, or during rebuild.
Last edited by twinsinside; 10-20-11 at 06:18 PM.
10-21-11, 12:48 AM
#15
I won't let go
I've run 20-50 for years with fine results. Being in Miami it doesn't get cold enough for you to need to worry about that. I lived in Chicago and ran 20-50, but I was only a summer car anyway so...
As suggested, there are tons of threads on this.
As suggested, there are tons of threads on this.
10-21-11, 02:08 AM
#16
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The "excessive start up wear" of 20w-50 is probably a lot less than the excessive wear of running water-like 10w-30 at operating temps.
Fuel dilution is really bad on these cars, and because of that I change my oil frequently.
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