wolf_9782

the previous owner of my FD specified for me to put 4oz of TCW III royal purple for the premix amount for every fill up of the gas tank.

i used that method for about a year and had no problems, but with my car about to get more power ive grown curious as to whether or not i should increase the amount.

ZX had an interesting point when he said that more power = more gas/oil goin into the chamber...

so im going to try both methods, i will try 4oz still of RP per fill up and take note of its performance, then ill try goodfellas 1oz per gallon ratio and compare. i will be ordering idemitsu soon tho

2007 ZX-10R

you shouldn't need a hotter plug if you're using the right ratio, it might load up a bit when you're bogging around town, but it should burn right off when you get on it

I used to run the OMP with 1 oz per gallon Amsoil 2 stroke pre-mix and fouled plugs pretty quickly

I don't think the ratios would be high enough to have any significant impact

2007 ZX-10R

that's about 544:1; Royal Purple recommends 400:1 to 600:1 for the street, are you running the OMP?

shows the "lean" ratios still the job!

Idemitsu engineered the stuff, and they recommend 1/2 oz per gallon for non OMP equipped cars, which is about 272:1 for a 17 gal fill-up (I mix 8 oz with every tank), why not stick with what they recommend, and has been shown to work fine?

Busted7

I run 1oz per gal and run 10.5 plugs and putt around town and have 8.5 to 1compression and i have zero issues with fowling! While im not an expert i run tens at the track and run 20 lbs boost on 93 so i run 1oz per gal just for piece of mind! With less fuel dilution i would think less premix would be needed!

wolf_9782

my FD has no OMP which is the primary reason as to my curiousity on this subject. if 544:1 is lean then i wonder if that is much too low for a non-OMP rotary?

once again i had no problems, but id like to prevent damage to it whenever possible. if so i will bump it up to 400:1 which translates to how many oz per tank? my math is horrible and its a monday morning at work with a hangover forgive me haha..

2007 ZX-10R

that's about 5.5 oz per fill-up

and it's not Monday

wolf_9782

i need to stop hangin out with my good buddy jack daniels durin the week

2007 ZX-10R

and his partner Jimmy Beam

wolf_9782

ill drink to that!

vincentrx7

iTrader: (2)

A little more info on oil. I've been using generic TC-W3 oil in my 20B w/out an OMP. I think I'm going to a better oil. The following info came from a "Sea-Doo" forum but the info seems factual and relevant. So, FWIW......


"I have spent way too much time researching this, but hopefully it will shed some light on the whole Oil Debate for 2 cycle Rotax engines. Contrary to what most people may believe, Whether or not the oil is “Low Ash” or “Ashless” is not very much concern. Although Low Ash oils typically do provide added protection, it does not necessarily mean we should choose our oil based on whether or not it is Ashless or Low Ash. What is more important is the Oil Quality Classification. The oil quality classification is generally used to determine the oil’s ability to prevent failure under unusual loads. There are several oil classification standards, but the ones that pertain to us are NMMA, API, ISO, and JASO. I will limit the standards to ones that pertain to us.

Standards you may be familiar with:

API Standards
In 1988 the American Petroleum Institute (API) and the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) defined oil designations for different two-cycle engine oil applications. These included:

API TA - Asian Use, High Ash Oil
API TB - European Use, Medium Ash Oil
API TC - North American Use, Low Ash Air-Cooled Engine Oil
API TD - North American Use, Ash-Free Outboard, Water-Cooled Engine Oil.

After viewing this list, you may find that these classifications are primarily based on the amount of Ash, not a very good way of determining the ability for oil to protect your engine. This method of classification is outdated and seldom used.

As you know, our SeaDoo’s call for API TC. Although our 2-cycle Rotax is not an Air-cooled engine, it requires this oil because air-cooled oils typically offer much better protection than water-cooled oils.

NMMA Standards
In 1988 the National Marine Manufacturers Association (NMMA), formerly the BIA, issued TC-WII lubricant requirements. In 1993 TC-W3 came out. As we all know, these standards mean nothing to us Rotax users because they will do not provide enough protection against engine failure in Rotax or Aircooled (Like the ones featured in Ultralites) engines. This standard does not even meet API TC’s engine protection, as it was not designed to withstand the typical challenges of an Air-Cooled Engine (or in our case, a high horsepower, high RPM, high temperature Rotax engine).

Newer Standards that make more sense:

ISO "Global" System
ISO is Europe’s solution to the American Crap system. They are classified as follows:

Global "EGD" is internationally recognized as the highest quality air-cooled 2-cycle oil available. It is a synthetic or semi-synthetic, extreme temperature/anti-scuff/lubricity, low smoke, low ash oil. Comparable to JASO FD. There is no comparable API product. API is significantly less quality than EGD.

Global "EGC" is equivalent to JASO "FC," Japan's highest quality 2-cycle oil. In Japan these oils may also be referred to as "Genuine" oils. These oils are high lubricity/detergent, low smoke, semi-synthetic, low ash oils.

Global "EGB" Europe's lowest quality 2-cycle oil, is equivalent to JASO "FB." It is generally accepted that North America's API TC rated oils are equivalent to these oils. These oils do not require any synthetic to meet specifications, but do have detergent and/or lubricity additives, and are typically low to medium ash oils.

JASO System
JASO is Japan’s solution to the American Crap system. They are classified as follows:

JASO "FA" rated oils are used in Pacific Rim countries and are the lowest rated Japanese 2-cycle oils. They are medium to high ash mineral oils with limited lubricity or detergency. As of December 2004, this classification will not be used.

JASO "FB" is equivalent to Global "GB." It is generally accepted that North America's API TC rated oils are equivalent to these oils. These oils do not require any synthetic to meet specifications, but do have detergent and/or lubricity additives, and are typically low to medium ash oils.

JASO "FC" is equivalent to Global "GC," Europe's medium quality 2-cycle oil. In Japan these oils may also be referred to as "Genuine" oils. These oils are high lubricity/detergent, low smoke, semi-synthetic, low ash oils. Before December 2004, this was JASO’s highest quality oil.

JASO "FD" is equivalent to Global "GD," Europe's Highest quality 2-cycle oil. This classification was added December 2004.


So what does this mean to us????

Our Seadoo’s require protection that API TC delivers. However better protection is obviously better!

Instead of looking for oil that is API TC “Low Ash” we should be focusing our attention on oils that provide comparable or better protection. So here is a new criteria for oil.

For the best protection exceeding API TC: Use oil that meets or exceeds ISO EGD, ISO EGC, JASO FC, or JASO FD

For comparable protection to API TC: Use oil that meets or exceeds ISO EGB, JASO FB, or API TC

AVOID: JASO FA, and all TC-W* unless it meets or exceeds a higher standard listed in the product data sheet. "

1ROTOR2NV

That was quite the read... anyway, I still have a few unanswered questions mainly pertaining to the location the oil is coming from, the OMP or the fuel tank, which is better ? I am about to install a single setup and am considering pulling the OMP. I would like to confirm that the oil will indeed get everywhere it needs to go via the fuel injection and intake tract if I go the premix route. Obviously the OMP is spraying the oil elsewhere, so if it is disconnected, from what I have read not only will i save weight, but due to premixing I will be burning an oil that is designed to be burned. Is that all correct?

2007 ZX-10

if it didn't, do you think two stroke racers would use it? ALL of them, whether it is snow machines, waverunners, or motocross bikes (back in the day) pre-mix...no one runs any type of metering pump because if it fails, you're done

1ROTOR2NV

I understand what you are saying in principal but I thought the inner workings of the rotory would differ slightly then your run of the mill snowmobile or john deer lawnmower, with regards to where the omp discharges the oil.

1ROTOR2NV

P.s two strokes suck

Snowmobile- 1000cc yamaha turbo 280 hp

Dirtbike - 500cc KTM enduro

Lawnmower - 3 hp honda

4 stroke baby!!!! Thanks for your input though

2007 ZX-10

I owned a 70 hp KX500 and 180 hp Yamaha 1200 waverunner

yeah, two strokes suck.......the wallpaper off their four stroke competitors in terms of power/displacement ratio

FD3S_B00ST

iTrader: (20)

Idemitsu ftw

FD3S_B00ST

iTrader: (20)

do you think idemitsu would be just as good for an fc?

FD3S2005

iTrader: (11)

so how much of Idemitsu do you use when you fill the tank up. like pettit only 4oz a tank? or if i fill up are you saying 1oz a gallon so if i put 10 gallons i need 10 oz of it?

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Working OMP or not?

FD3S2005

iTrader: (11)

my omp still works

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

I experimented with 1 oz per gallon with a working omp and experienced high rpm breakup. I now use about half an oz per gallon, sometimes a bit less. This was with idemitsu.

gripp2maxx

best place to order idemitsu.?

jeff p

Protek-R (from pettit)
but probably will go Idemitsu when finished with the bottles. I run 4oz per tank of fuel with the omp still working on my car.

Jeff

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

scroll down below the oil filters:

http://www.rx7.com/store/rx7/fdengine_maintenance.html

gripp2maxx

thanks rich.......ordering ow could youpm me info for ceramic coating aswell?