Aloha all,

here is the long scoop on the ordeal:
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...warning+remans

Now to the start of a happier ending,.

I was talking with Ray and the Mazda rep had decided that they would only be willing to replace the one engine that has bad compression. ( now with 700+ miles on it) So we talked and decided that a speacial order would need to go into the builders to get a build sheet signed off by someone to blame.

This decided Ray said that he( Malloy) would eat the shipping cost on the new engine to me and the return. WOW! Very cool. considering my location So i told him I would talk with the customer and then get back to him this Monday.

Well, I have put all the miles on this car since the new engine.( Loong story as to why ) I was on a drive the other night and was behind some really slow people. I decided to pass, and when i did, a car came around the corner. I decided to finish the pass and started boosting.( first time on the engine) I boosted 7 a couple of times with the boost controller offand just played around a little. ( This was 1 day before talking with Ray)

After talking with Ray, I decided to take 1 last compression reading before i tore the engine back out to send back. Man i am glad i did!!.
The boost has apparently unstuck the seal(s) that were stuck. I have been avoiding boost until the seals settled themselves. After 700 i had concluded that a spring was missing in the assembly process.

The new compression readings were as follows. Front Rotor:95,95,95( up from 85,85,85)

Rear rotor: 75,75,85( up from 60,60,80)

Soo not perfect yet but since the seals had not been sealing correctly, now they are doing there routine of break-in.

I am still keeping a watchfull eye on the readings. but i am confident that they will come up still

NOW, My engine on the other hand... 50's on all 6 faces haha!! nice! They will come up when i run it too.

So take this as it is, and add it to the debate of boost or no boost during break-in period. I am still a believer that you shouldn't hit 10 psi straight away but maybe at 500 or so.

Sorry for the long story but it is a happy step in the saga.

I still recommend checking the things i listed in the other thread. As the o-ring was still missing and THAT would have killed the engine soon after running

After all this Ray is going to be happier than hell to hear this. I know i was. And nothing can be said other than that Ray and Malloy are Top shelf Business people to work with. I do thousands of dollars in parts with them monthly and he was willing to bend over backwards for me on this whole deal. As well as send me the parts for my engine that was damged in shipping. Class act all the way around. He deserves a ton of credit and praise!!

 

koo man much luck to ya

mike

 

I typically recommend no boost/under 4000 RPM for the first 500 miles, then low boost and gradually increasing RPM for the next 500. With the stock twins, it's damn near impossible to drive around and not hit a pound or three of boost.

Regardless, glad to hear things are heading in a better direction for you!

Dale

 

Ray Crow will go out of his way for anyone.. He is a top notch person. Mazda is one lucky company to have a guy like him working for them.

 

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

Man, I still have to question the numbers you're seeing. I typicaly use 100k mile used housings in the majority of my 2gen budget rebuilds, and I see numbers as good or better as what you're seeing with just a few hours of runtime/idle time on them, and maybe 50 miles of street driving. After 500 miles you usually see over 100, this is on old grooved up housings. IF using new or like new rotorhousings (like mazda is supposed to) I'd expect to see 100+ right off the bat (after initial crankup) and 110+ after 500 miles. Hell, my FD has some 75k mile series 5 NA housings in it, and is making 8.5-9.0 compression all around...125psi or better. Anything under 100 out of a reman block is unacceptable, in my eyes.

 

well i have *never* seen a newly built engine put out good #'s like you are quoting.. just my experioence. Every engine reman or built by a pro has had 75 to start with at least and gone up. Since i had 2 days of driving since the unsticking occured . I think the chances that they come up more are good.

The #'s onmine are really down. But it has been sitting for a few months out here and however long at malloy.and has only been run for their( williams tech) 10 minute run-in for compression check and oil pressure check. As well as water pump and thermo activation.

Again if you read the history of this engine(the customers) There was also the o-ring on the front e-shaft bolt that was missing. Soo if this was missing, how did it pass the oil pressure test without question. And what if any damage had occured from that?So the point is i know that quality control is still lacking at the plant. But i think the #'s will come up more.

It really depends on what and how much of the assembly lube they used. I peeked inside th eexhaust and the internals were covered in a thick brownish lube.( not permatex but that color ) I don't know what they use in the spring and seal areas. Wouldn't suprise me if they did use permatex

We'll just have to wait and see in the end. But so far it is getting better.

It always cracks me up to see the builders write the psi #'s on the rotor hpousings after the build. I check every time and *never* have had the #'s match up correctly. Standard gauge or Mazda's. Just a joke on their part i think. Cruel bastards!

And at the end of the day, if i wanted to replace these. I would still be relying on Williams tech to build a good one or eat the costs of the 2 engines and buy new rebuild kits for them. and do it myself. ( which i would have done but for a lack of good cores)

And we shouldn't have to question Mazda's contract work. ****, I'll build them for Mazda if they need someone who cares about quality and the community. Or you Kevin, Or Steve Or Judge ito

 

offtopic, but thanks for sending out that rotor so fast! :thumbsup:

-scott

 

Yeah, seriously. Maybe your tester is off. With some grooved, average 100-150k mile used FC housings, I usually see 80-90 after about an hour or 2 of run time. Sure, if you check it on the engine stand, dry, no rotations, then you'd get something ignorant like 50-60. Usually when these engines are done breaking in, I see 95-110psi. With better housings (you'd expect, even demand, that a reman have excellent condition housings with no flaking, for the money) add 10-20psi to all those numbers. With a new housing engine, it wouldnt surprise me to see 100-110psi right after 1-2 hours of runtime. Seriously. My aforementioned FD engine with used FC housings in new condition was making 110psi at 40 miles...after 2000 miles it went up to 120-130 all around, and levelled off there.

I'll be honest, with numbers like those, I'd be wondering exactly what sort of housings were in that engine. We all know that most any apex seal will seat and seal roughly the same under breakin conditions, and short of a part being left out (spring, as you mentioned) or a screwed up side or cornerseal, I don't know how you'd get a reman to make such poor compression. They're supposed to use new, or like-new used, housings...

I just built an engine last night that was a 10k mile old reman...suffered a fire, and seals stuck in place while the car changed hands. Housings were like new. I bet I can turn it with the flywheel/bellhousing/starter/battery and the mazda comp. tester and get 100psi or better out of it, never having been run.

Oh, when you see numbers written on rebuilds, it's often because of all the lube they add during the rebuild. These throw numbers off, way on the high side...my testing indicates that you can take a ~85-90psi old engine, add some motor oil or atf to the chambers and distribute with a few turns, then retake the test and raise numbers instantly by 30-40psi. That's how you see all these jspecs making 140psi, which isn't normally possible on a rotary in any condition. You always take your readings when the chambers are dry of oil, such as normal operating condition...also you take your numbers when warm, because the engine loses a few psi compression when hot. When cold, you usually see higher numbers, another reason they are higher when tested at the builder versus after you've testrun it.

This is a big reason I have a testbench to run all rebuilds that I do not install personally. I run mine for 3-4 hours or more before letting them go, monitoring oil pressure and compression.

 

^^ All valid points and ones i made i thought in my saga story. I expect to see the numbers rise some more now that everything is sealing up properly. And my engine ( with 50's) was just rotating after putting some oil in the plug holes so as to not get a totaly dry turn over. ( And all #'s on the customers car are done warm, my car is cold #'s.)
I agree that the #'s should be higher. And i believe they will get there. I also agree with your staement that we should demand new or like new parts. ... That was kinda the whole point of the original thread, to get people to inspect a few basic things before install. Like compression, o-rings being in place etc.. Hell Williams Tech admitted in email that they run the engines for 10 minutes. 5 @ 2Krpm and 5 @1500. testing compression and oil pressure.. Sooo what happened here?

Your 3-4 hours is a lot better of a test procedure then 10 minutes of running. IMO you can't tell **** from that other than if you tore a o-ring or totally fragged the rebuild.

I would love to have a new engine make 100+ right away. Just have never seen it happen with my own 2 eyes.( Not saying yours don't have that readings... i have never gotten a engine from you to test )And i love the old lithium grease compression in a can trick!! And FWIW: I have replaced my compression gauage many times over the years. All snap-on. So the readings are accurate. As is the building abilities of most people apparently

I am in the process of buildig a test stand for run-in tests before install.( any chance i can pick your brain on what intake and carb and ign set-up you use for testing?) This waste of time all due to a 15 year old setting me up with a blown engine in his car will NEVER happen again( loong story) Next remans i get for cores get torn apart regardless. At the customers bill Ask Steve some of the missing bolts and such he has found in his remans. Scary ****!!