7-sins

I am tired of boost issues and would like to try a simpler system out for a change without buying a single turbo yet. I wouldn't run more than 14 psi because I am lacking 1200cc secondarys. I would probably upgrade those later down the road along with a FMIC if I like the setup. I just wanted to see how many of you guys were pleased with your non-sequential setups.

I also have one question, how would the PFC control boost with the non-sequential?

Chris

billyrohm

The non sequential is sweet, I love it, you'll probably want to go with a more open intake though. One strong boost curve all the way till redline. You should just get a boost controller, controls boost much better than the pfc. You get full boost later but it's strong boost, the kind of boost that you feel after your second turbo kicks in when you are running sequential. I cant see any reason to change it back.

pp13bnos

iTrader: (1)

billy by when do you get full boost by? CJ

cewrx7r1

iTrader: (2)

If you do the complete conversion with a street ported engine, you can have full boost by 3200rpm from a rolling start in 4th gear. This also requires: DP, MP or hi-flow cat, cat-back exhaust, a better IC, and ECU upgrade.

I was happy with mine with a hi-flow cat, Greddy SMIC, and XS ecu. This reached full boost in 4th by 4000rpm. Had to use the gears more and not drive it like it is a V8. If you have good prior experinece driving hi reving smaller engine cars, and like using the gears, then you will have no problems and will not loose any performance in the low end compared to a seq setup.

Since going FMIC, PFC, and MP; it is totally great. I would never go back.

To control boost with the PFC: turn seq boost controll off, connect the pre-control hose to the WG actuator. Then the rest of the setup is like seq.

rx7eaven

PM kwikrx7 his name is barry, he has sequential says he likes it really good.

Bacon

iTrader: (12)

when i was non-seq i loved it, with dp mp and cat back i could get 12psi by 37-800 in third, and a bit better in 4th and 5th...
powerband is smooth and predictable, no guessing
i have nothign but great reviews for non-seq
but im on the road to single now, the power monster bit me

billyrohm

I get full boost around around 4000 rpm in 4th. I did the poor mans conversion. Yes you must do more shifting but it's totally worth it.

DTM_Le_Mans

iTrader: (4)

Is non-sequential not the same as a single turbo? If so, is there a "how to" for non-sequentials?

Thanx.

Scorpio

There's some info (including thoughts and dyno charts) on my non-seq conversion at:

http://www.micromanx.com/goble/rx7/projects.html

Drive a car that is non-seq if you can...it's not for everyone. But I love if and would not go back. Good luck! :)

KZ1

I fyou can't get your sequential system working, and your mechanic is a fool. Then going non-sequencial is an option.

But, it is not a perforamnce mod, it decreases performance. Although it doesn;t matter oif you are racing becasue revs are high anyway, it affects driveability by more turbo lag. Even with sequerntial it stays in dual mode, until you drop below 3 k. So only time there is differnce is 1 time before 4500, and belwoy 3k.

Well if you are driving hard these things are negligible.

Scorpio

I have to completely disagree with KZ1...calling non-sequential a performance decrease is very short-sighted IMO.

Non-seq will give you less performance/response on the low-end.

Non-seq will give you MORE power in the mid-range.

Non-seq will give you the same power at the top-end (maybe a little more because flow is opened up a bit if you go full non-seq). I saw increased power at the top-end on my setup (again, I did a full conversion).

You will also have a cooler running engine, less boost going to run the 60 vaccuum hoses (since only about 8 hoses are left). And, a much simpler and reliable turbo control system.

Why KZ1 thinks MORE power in the mid-range is a performance decrease, I don't know. I have been non-seq for 2.5 years and I love it and wouldn't go back to stock-seq.

Also, if you adjust your driving style to keep the revs a little higher, you will spend less time in the low-end so you won't encounter the low-end performance/response loss as often. This is what I do...maybe KZ1 lugged around at 1500rpms in his non-seq conversion...just teasin KZ1 :P

jimlab

All good points, Brian.

I should also remind people that the first FD into the 10s (10.98) was a non-sequential car, and the same car competed and finished 14th overall and 9th in class (SSGT1) in the 1996 One Lap competition on its first (and only) outing. I believe Kevin Wyum's car is a perfect example that the non-sequential mod does not harm performance by any significant amount...

pp13bnos

iTrader: (1)

Along with a cat and air pump, will a car still pass emmisions? At the moment Marion county in Oregon does not have to go through deq, but i the DMVs been saying its going state wide in the near future.

Billy what rpm, do you start making mardinal boost? Incase you're wondering i can't spell or type.

Jim, to be honest i never kept up with all your doings, but what was the deciding factor to go V8? No flames, just wondering. CJ

KZ1

no. I beat the **** out of my car, lol, but seriously if you are shifting and driving hard, both rubos are on anyways. so no differnce there, differnce is in low end, where seq' has better response, etc. TH eonly ONLY advantage to non-seq besides simplification, is no drop at 4500 rpm, but if seq are runnign right this is negigible. However, these positive does not offset hte lack of low end power.

I am not knocking guys that go non-seq, just thought I woudl clarify for those that can be misled by all teh praise about it. I almost went non-seq, but hten I fixxed boost problem. non-eq is 100% better than improperly running seq's, thatis for sure.

Scorpio

KZ1, in the mid-range, especially before the stock-seq change-over at 4500rpms, you will have significantly more power with non-seq. Dyno charts show this very clearly.

Your statement that "these positive does not offset hte lack of low end power" is a totally valid opinion. I just don't think you should make the blanket statement that non-seq is a performance decrease...it's clearly not...even you stated there are positives to it (in your case, just not enough for what you like).

Some people would say having a power *drop* followed by a sharp power spike is a performance decrease of stock-seq. I prefer a smooth power curve that only increases...but that's just me. Some people probably couldn't stand to not have instant response at the low-end...I am ok with it and have modified my driving style to counter that aspect of non-seq. It's all opinions and what people like in terms of power delivery.

My extra two cents is that anyone thinking about non-seq should drive (in) a car that is non-seq (if they can) and decide for themselves. If it was as bad as KZ1 makes it out to be, there wouldn't be as many people doing the conversion.

jimlab

Lack of anything better to do with the car...

7-sins

Thanks for all the responses guys :1party:

I might do it tomorrow... If I do then I will follow up with results.

cewrx7r1

iTrader: (2)

FOR BETTER RESPONCE:

Also pull the exhaust manifold off the engine. I will not go into "secret" details; but look at the exhaust manifold, turbo housing, and exhaust ports. Especially pay attention to how and where they fit together. Then THINK what can I do to decrease turbulance and increase exhaust flow. Then go at it with a carbide grinding tool.
Same applies to the turbo outlets and "Y" pipe.

While at it you should also open the waste gate.

billyrohm

There really isnt more lag max boost just comes later. Plus if you think about it when you ask for boost your motor probably is making more naturally aspirated power because both turbos are asking for full exhuast and they are in parallel and if you add resistance in parallel total resistance is lower => less back pressure.

If you have an open exhaust and dont have the money to go single non sequential is the way to go.

pp13bnos

iTrader: (1)

So when do you start building boost billy? Just wondering because, i have just about the same mods as you. To be honest i'm realy on the fense with going non vs seq. Just trying to get an idea of what it will be like. CJ

evoandy

I saw someone post something about a poor man's non sequential. I'm going to be pretty damn poor after I get an FD, so Should probably learn how to do that since non-seq can save you some maintenance costs in the long run, and if I can get a non-seq done inexpensively then...hooray! what a poor man's non seq. conversion?

7-sins

cewrx7r1-

Good point man, I am just going to do the "poor man" way first. If I like it then I might look into more. Especially if I have the manifolds off for any other reason.

evoandy-

it would be a lot easier if you had the FD that way you could see the parts im talking about... but basicly:

1. Wire the Turbo Control Actuator open (kinda easy to do if you just take it off then use the bracket to hold the wire around)
2. Pull off and cap lines going to the Charge Control Actuator --- keeping it open all the time.
3. Pull off and cap lines going to the Turbo Precontrol Actuator
4. Remove the vacuum line going to the Charge Relief Valve and then tee it into the vacuum line going to the Air Bypass Valve. This way they both work as blow off valves. I am running a HKS Sequential BOV so I plan to just remove the Charge Relief Valve completely. The HKS should do the job of both.

kwikrx7

My results with non-sequentials:

I've had my car for about 2000 miles with the setup in my sig. with non-seq. At first I didn't like it. I still miss sequentials and the "instant" turbo response. I get full 13 lbs of boost by 4K - it builds slowly up to that. The power is not immediate or "kicks in" like the second turbo does around 4.5-5K in sequential mode - it just pulls and gets faster all the way to redline. I've had more fun in the sequential mode - you have to downshift more and 5th gear as a passing gear is useless at low rpms. When you are racing - it doesn't matter. It is a trade off not a upgrade or downgrade. More midrange and less low end. Much more reliable and cooler. If I were you do the poormans's switch and try it. I would only do it if you are having issues with your sequentials. There is more lag and I even had more lag when I had a mp (strange) but I know I won't be having any more boost issues. I've never done a highway run (used 4th or 5th gear) racing just 3rd to redline and it pulled pretty hard. I need more boost